Sex Slave or Consenting Adult?

[Madeline]

There is no universally accepted cause or theory explaining the origin of sexual sadism, or of sadomasochism. Some researchers attempt to explain the presence of sexual paraphilias in general as the result of biological factors. Evidence for this viewpoint comes from abnormal findings from neuropsychological and neurological tests of sex offenders.
Some researchers believe that paraphilias are related to such other problems as brain injury, schizophrenia , or another mental disorder. Often, people with sexual disorders or symptoms of paraphilia are diagnosed with other mental disorders.
Another theory about paraphilias is derived from learning theory. It suggests that paraphilias develop because the person is required to suppress, or squelch, inappropriate sexual fantasies. Because the fantasies are not acted out initially, the urge to carry them out increases. When the person finally acts upon the fantasies, they are in a state of considerable distress and/or arousal. This theory is not accepted by forensic experts at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and other researchers who study sexual offenses. Rather than suppressing fantasies, most people who are eventually arrested for crimes involving sexual sadism begin with milder forms of acting on them and progressing to more harmful ways of acting out. For example, the FBI's database indicates that these people— almost always males— start out by collecting pornographic materials that depict sadistic acts, or they may draw ropes and chains on the photographs of models in swimsuit or lingerie advertisements. They then typically progress to following women at a distance, to hiring a prostitute in order to act out the fantasy, and to asking a girlfriend or other willing partner to cooperate with their fantasy. In other words, the severity of sadistic acts tends to increase over time.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sadomasochism_(Sexual_behavior).aspx

Missourian, I sense this is a case of fearing the unknown. Here's a link to some good information on the subject.....

SM 101 by Jay Wiseman

 

[Missourian]

West later met Rosemary Letts, the seventeen-year-old girl who was to become his wife, and immediately recognised her as someone he could mould to his requirements, who would help satisfy his perverse sexual impulses. But he would always keep his secrets.


When she was a child, Rosemary’s father had routinely beaten his family, particularly his wife, but seemed to have a soft spot for “Rosie” as his youngest daughter was sometimes known – it later emerged that he had been having sex with her. As Fred West once nonchalantly described: “He was fucking Rose for years.”


Rosemary Letts grew up knowing what pleased men and allowing them to do with her as they wished usually earned her favourable treatment. Sex had become her staple diet and the promiscuous adolescent was something of a homing-beacon for an eagle-eyed predator like Fred West. The quintessential empty vessel for him to fill."

New Criminologist : Serial Murder and the Psychology of a Sexual Sadist: Frederick West

 

[Missourian]

Mrs E said Taylor described how he fantasised about tying her daughter up with cable ties in a sex session. The conversation took place in February 2001, just three months after he killed Leanne.
Another woman Taylor had met through a lonely hearts column, Miss B, said she was tied up during sexual intercourse with Taylor on two occasions, leaving her feeling 'that she was being raped'.


Mr Smith said Taylor killed Leanne by strangling her with a ligature - either a scarf or a plastic cable tie.


He said when her body was discovered it was wrapped in plastic bin liners and a duvet cover. Her hands were tied together with cable ties and she had a dog collar tied tightly round her neck. He said experts agreed that her body was not decomposed enough to have been in the wood for the full nine months since she disappeared.

Sexual sadist 'may have killed others' Body kept frozen: Life sentence should mean life, says mother of victim.(News) - The Birmingham Post (England) | HighBeam Research - FREE Article

 

[Cecilie1200]

West later met Rosemary Letts, the seventeen-year-old girl who was to become his wife, and immediately recognised her as someone he could mould to his requirements, who would help satisfy his perverse sexual impulses. But he would always keep his secrets.


When she was a child, Rosemary’s father had routinely beaten his family, particularly his wife, but seemed to have a soft spot for “Rosie” as his youngest daughter was sometimes known – it later emerged that he had been having sex with her. As Fred West once nonchalantly described: “He was fucking Rose for years.”


Rosemary Letts grew up knowing what pleased men and allowing them to do with her as they wished usually earned her favourable treatment. Sex had become her staple diet and the promiscuous adolescent was something of a homing-beacon for an eagle-eyed predator like Fred West. The quintessential empty vessel for him to fill."

New Criminologist : Serial Murder and the Psychology of a Sexual Sadist: Frederick West

Do you understand at all that these criminologists are talking about a different group of people from the average, everyday BDSM practitioners who make up the kink community?

 

[Missourian]

Initially presents the image of a sincere, caring, loving and attentive individual: Past girlfriends and his wife's family all report that BERNARDO, during the early stages of his relationships, showered the women with gifts and attention. He maintained an outward appearance of being loving and attentive.




Dominating personality: Family members report that BERNARDO told his wife how to wear her hair and chose her clothing. Over the course of time he isolated her from her former friends. A close friend of BERNARDO, Van Smirnis, disclosed that he observed many occasions when BERNARDO treated his wife with a total lack of respect. In January 1993, after charges were laid against BERNARDO for beating his wife, she disclosed a long history of physical abuse.


Obsession with sexual sadism; suffers from an overpowering compulsion to inflict pain upon and totally dominate any sexual companion: A former girlfriend has disclosed that BERNARDO was unable to achieve an erection unless he frightened or inflicted pain on her.



With that woman, BERNARDO used ligatures around her neck while engaging in anal intercourse. He also used foreign objects including bottles and sticks by inserting them into both vaginal and anal cavities of his victims. Further, any non-compliance on the part of his victims or willing sexual partners resulted in violence.


Compulsively collects and uses pornography: A friend, Van SMIRNIS, has reported that BERNARDO made a videotape of himself having sex with an unknown woman. He then showed the video to his wife. SMIRNIS also reports that BERNARDO disclosed that his wife had been searching their home for a video tape that recorded her having sex with another woman. Further, BERNARDO is known to own a video camera and playback equipment. He, as a matter of habit, videotapes people and events and collects these.


Collects and keeps as trophies and mementos personal items belonging to past victims (e.g., undergarments, shoes, jewellery, wallets or identification); such trophies then serve as a source of perverse gratification and enrich the offender's sexual fantasies: Investigation has revealed that each victim has lost item during the attack which could be characterized as a "trophy". Trophies include photo identification, articles of clothing, jewellery, head and pubic hairs.

APPENDIX 11

 

[Missourian]

West later met Rosemary Letts, the seventeen-year-old girl who was to become his wife, and immediately recognised her as someone he could mould to his requirements, who would help satisfy his perverse sexual impulses. But he would always keep his secrets.


When she was a child, Rosemary’s father had routinely beaten his family, particularly his wife, but seemed to have a soft spot for “Rosie” as his youngest daughter was sometimes known – it later emerged that he had been having sex with her. As Fred West once nonchalantly described: “He was fucking Rose for years.”


Rosemary Letts grew up knowing what pleased men and allowing them to do with her as they wished usually earned her favourable treatment. Sex had become her staple diet and the promiscuous adolescent was something of a homing-beacon for an eagle-eyed predator like Fred West. The quintessential empty vessel for him to fill."

New Criminologist : Serial Murder and the Psychology of a Sexual Sadist: Frederick West

Do you understand at all that these criminologists are talking about a different group of people from the average, everyday BDSM practitioners who make up the kink community?

Do you understand that these people ALL started out as "everyday BDSM practitioners" ?

 

[Cecilie1200]

New Criminologist : Serial Murder and the Psychology of a Sexual Sadist: Frederick West

Do you understand at all that these criminologists are talking about a different group of people from the average, everyday BDSM practitioners who make up the kink community?

Do you understand that these people ALL started out as "everyday BDSM practitioners" ?

That's like saying all rapists started out having normal, consensual sex.

 

[Missourian]

There is no universally accepted cause or theory explaining the origin of sexual sadism, or of sadomasochism. Some researchers attempt to explain the presence of sexual paraphilias in general as the result of biological factors. Evidence for this viewpoint comes from abnormal findings from neuropsychological and neurological tests of sex offenders.
Some researchers believe that paraphilias are related to such other problems as brain injury, schizophrenia , or another mental disorder. Often, people with sexual disorders or symptoms of paraphilia are diagnosed with other mental disorders.
Another theory about paraphilias is derived from learning theory. It suggests that paraphilias develop because the person is required to suppress, or squelch, inappropriate sexual fantasies. Because the fantasies are not acted out initially, the urge to carry them out increases. When the person finally acts upon the fantasies, they are in a state of considerable distress and/or arousal. This theory is not accepted by forensic experts at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and other researchers who study sexual offenses. Rather than suppressing fantasies, most people who are eventually arrested for crimes involving sexual sadism begin with milder forms of acting on them and progressing to more harmful ways of acting out. For example, the FBI's database indicates that these people— almost always males— start out by collecting pornographic materials that depict sadistic acts, or they may draw ropes and chains on the photographs of models in swimsuit or lingerie advertisements. They then typically progress to following women at a distance, to hiring a prostitute in order to act out the fantasy, and to asking a girlfriend or other willing partner to cooperate with their fantasy. In other words, the severity of sadistic acts tends to increase over time.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sadomasochism_(Sexual_behavior).aspx

Missourian, I sense this is a case of fearing the unknown. Here's a link to some good information on the subject.....

SM 101 by Jay Wiseman

Maddy, I find that this is a case of not using common sense.

It takes a special kind of sick person to receive pleasure and sexual gratification from the pain and humiliation of another human being, "consensual" or otherwise.

Think it through...read the examples I posted.

 

[Madeline]

Mrs E said Taylor described how he fantasised about tying her daughter up with cable ties in a sex session. The conversation took place in February 2001, just three months after he killed Leanne.
Another woman Taylor had met through a lonely hearts column, Miss B, said she was tied up during sexual intercourse with Taylor on two occasions, leaving her feeling 'that she was being raped'.


Mr Smith said Taylor killed Leanne by strangling her with a ligature - either a scarf or a plastic cable tie.


He said when her body was discovered it was wrapped in plastic bin liners and a duvet cover. Her hands were tied together with cable ties and she had a dog collar tied tightly round her neck. He said experts agreed that her body was not decomposed enough to have been in the wood for the full nine months since she disappeared.

Sexual sadist 'may have killed others' Body kept frozen: Life sentence should mean life, says mother of victim.(News) - The Birmingham Post (England) | HighBeam Research - FREE Article

Again, 99.9% of adult humans with a sex life practice some BDSM acts and 99% engage in some sado-masochism. I feel safe in concluding more is needed than a taste of BDSM to create a sexual predator.

 

[Missourian]

Do you understand at all that these criminologists are talking about a different group of people from the average, everyday BDSM practitioners who make up the kink community?

Do you understand that these people ALL started out as "everyday BDSM practitioners" ?

That's like saying all rapists started out having normal, consensual sex.

Not even close...sadists ENJOY hurting people...period.

 

[Missourian]

kansas city, mo. -- the allegations in the indictment were shocking: A young woman had been held captive for years as the sex slave of a missouri couple. She had been locked in a cage and subjected to electrical shocks. Parts of her body had been nailed to wooden planks.

When announcing charges last month, u.s. Attorney beth phillips called the case one of "the most horrific ever prosecuted in this district."

authorities said the woman was a mentally deficient runaway who was recruited by an older man at the age of 16 to live in his trailer. The situation came to light in early 2009, after the woman, then 23, landed in a hospital following what prosecutors said was a torture session.

But as more details have emerged, more questions have arisen about the accuser, including her involvement in violent sex practices, her posing for a pornographic magazine and her work as a strip-club dancer. Supporters of the defendant are speaking out, too, saying many of the acts described in the indictment are practiced every day between consenting adults.

Susan dill, bagley's kansas city-based attorney, told reporters recently that the indictment tells only one side of the story. She said the defense will present evidence that the woman practiced bdsm -- bondage, dominance, sadism and masochism -- by choice.

^^^
This is not a taste!!!!!

He restrained her and shocked her until she had a heart attack!!!!

 

[Madeline]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sadomasochism_(Sexual_behavior).aspx

Missourian, I sense this is a case of fearing the unknown. Here's a link to some good information on the subject.....

SM 101 by Jay Wiseman

Maddy, I find that this is a case of not using common sense.

It takes a special kind of sick person to receive pleasure and sexual gratification from the pain and humiliation of another human being, "consensual" or otherwise.

Think it through...read the examples I posted.

Lemme give you a real life example. Boyfriend X and I had been together ages, and to make fun, we "pretended" to not know each other in a bar, where he "picked me up". We had a blast.

And yet, I have not taken up murdering people. Pretending via consent is not the same as forcing a stranger for real, Missourian.

 

[Father Time]

Do you understand that these people ALL started out as "everyday BDSM practitioners" ?

That's like saying all rapists started out having normal, consensual sex.

Not even close...sadists ENJOY hurting people...period.

And rapists don't?

 

[Madeline]

kansas city, mo. -- the allegations in the indictment were shocking: A young woman had been held captive for years as the sex slave of a missouri couple. She had been locked in a cage and subjected to electrical shocks. Parts of her body had been nailed to wooden planks.

When announcing charges last month, u.s. Attorney beth phillips called the case one of "the most horrific ever prosecuted in this district."

authorities said the woman was a mentally deficient runaway who was recruited by an older man at the age of 16 to live in his trailer. The situation came to light in early 2009, after the woman, then 23, landed in a hospital following what prosecutors said was a torture session.

But as more details have emerged, more questions have arisen about the accuser, including her involvement in violent sex practices, her posing for a pornographic magazine and her work as a strip-club dancer. Supporters of the defendant are speaking out, too, saying many of the acts described in the indictment are practiced every day between consenting adults.

Susan dill, bagley's kansas city-based attorney, told reporters recently that the indictment tells only one side of the story. She said the defense will present evidence that the woman practiced bdsm -- bondage, dominance, sadism and masochism -- by choice.

^^^
this is not a taste!!!!!

Of course it isn't. It is a very extreme fact pattern, if all the allegations are true. For starters, it is a poly household, and those are extremely rare.

Nonetheless, if she was over 18, in her right mind, intelligent enough to consent, did consent and was not coerced to stay after withdrawing her consent -- I JUST DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM.

 

[Father Time]

This is what you are defending.

This was "consensual".

FBI USA - The Disturbed Mind - Compliant Victims of the Sexual Sadist - Karla Homolka

That is NOT what I'm defending. What happened there was harmful and predatory, and while technically consensual, no healthy BDSM practitioner would get involved with someone so obviously incapable of making informed, healthy choices about her safety and well-being. People like that are usually blacklisted in the kink community. The goal with BDSM is for all participants to ENJOY the interaction and walk away happy and satisfied, just like any other healthy sexual encounter.

There is no "heathy" sadism.

What's that? I can't hear you over the sounds of the innocents I'm gunning down in Grand Theft Auto.

I wonder if you think playing this game will turn me into a killer?

 

[Father Time]

kansas city, mo. -- the allegations in the indictment were shocking: A young woman had been held captive for years as the sex slave of a missouri couple. She had been locked in a cage and subjected to electrical shocks. Parts of her body had been nailed to wooden planks.

When announcing charges last month, u.s. Attorney beth phillips called the case one of "the most horrific ever prosecuted in this district."

authorities said the woman was a mentally deficient runaway who was recruited by an older man at the age of 16 to live in his trailer. The situation came to light in early 2009, after the woman, then 23, landed in a hospital following what prosecutors said was a torture session.

But as more details have emerged, more questions have arisen about the accuser, including her involvement in violent sex practices, her posing for a pornographic magazine and her work as a strip-club dancer. Supporters of the defendant are speaking out, too, saying many of the acts described in the indictment are practiced every day between consenting adults.

Susan dill, bagley's kansas city-based attorney, told reporters recently that the indictment tells only one side of the story. She said the defense will present evidence that the woman practiced bdsm -- bondage, dominance, sadism and masochism -- by choice.

^^^
this is not a taste!!!!!

Of course it isn't. It is a very extreme fact pattern, if all the allegations are true. For starters, it is a poly household, and those are extremely rare.

Nonetheless, if she was over 18, in her right mind, intelligent enough to consent, did consent and was not coerced to stay after withdrawing her consent -- I JUST DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM.

What about the fact that he allegedly killed her pets to show his dominance or whatever? Surely that's a problem if true.

 

[Madeline]

That's like saying all rapists started out having normal, consensual sex.

Not even close...sadists ENJOY hurting people...period.

And rapists don't?

Rapists are a variety of types, but most are sexually gratified by power over another. That is distinguishable from sadists, especially sadists who desire only consensual partners. Sadists are gratified by inflicting sensation or pain on another.

You people act as if there are no masochists.

 

[Toro]

Virtual kiddie porn harms no one.

Reconcile your positions.

Easy.

If virtual porn eliminated the kiddie porn industry, then there would be no kids making kiddie porn videos. That's good, isn't it? One could argue that more kids are harmed making the actual film than any increase in pediophilia caused by the watching of those films.

 

[Father Time]

Not even close...sadists ENJOY hurting people...period.

And rapists don't?

You people act as if there are no masochists.

Don't lump me in with that group.

 

[Madeline]

^^^
this is not a taste!!!!!

Of course it isn't. It is a very extreme fact pattern, if all the allegations are true. For starters, it is a poly household, and those are extremely rare.

Nonetheless, if she was over 18, in her right mind, intelligent enough to consent, did consent and was not coerced to stay after withdrawing her consent -- I JUST DO NOT SEE THE PROBLEM.

What about the fact that he allegedly killed animals to show his dominance or whatever? Surely that's a problem if true.

Yes, it is. Not only because it is depraved, animals cannot consent and it was almost certainly illegal...but also because if true, it invalidated her consent.

After that, he might as well have been holding a gun to her head....and he's sunk, as a matter of law.

IF true.