Sex Slave or Consenting Adult?

[Cecilie1200]

It was an open question.

But now we're on the same page...I think nothing good comes from a societal acceptance of sexual behavior that encourages and strengthens the urge to demean, humiliate and physically abuse of another human being.

No, we're not on the same page. My position is that nothing good comes from societal acceptance - or even tolerance - of HARMING another human being. Safe, sane, and consensual BDSM among adults harms no one.

And no one is asking you to accept anything. The practitioners just ask that you mind your own business. Disapprove as you see fit, but don't impose it on them.

Virtual kiddie porn harms no one.

Reconcile your positions.

I believe it does harm people, so they're completely reconciled.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They claim she was "mentally deficient". I would suggest that anyone who practices BDSM is "mentally deficient", wouldn't you?

No. Just kinky.

What does "mentally deficient" mean anyways?

Either some form of retardation, or mental illness.

 

[Madeline]

No, we're not on the same page. My position is that nothing good comes from societal acceptance - or even tolerance - of HARMING another human being. Safe, sane, and consensual BDSM among adults harms no one.

And no one is asking you to accept anything. The practitioners just ask that you mind your own business. Disapprove as you see fit, but don't impose it on them.

Virtual kiddie porn harms no one.

Reconcile your positions.

I believe it does harm people, so they're completely reconciled.

I dunno if it does or not. Why not wait until we do know and then decide?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sexual abuse
All the women were sexually abused by the men. Three victims were forcibly penetrated by large foreign objects. One subject used a 12 cell flashlight and also a long cylindrical piece of wood. Almost invariably these items were inserted anally, so as to cause maximal suffering.


Six of the women reported anal intercourse to be their sadistic partner's preferred mode of sexual release. Forced felatio was also reported by all seven women, and these same women reported that the sadists enjoyed ejaculating on their bodies, primarily their face or mouth.


Two of the seven women advised that they had been urinated on, and one reported being required to administer enemas to herself. Three of the women were forced to have sex with others; two were raped by friends of the sadists, and one was forced to engage in sexual acts with another woman who had been kidnapped by her husband.


All seven of the respondents agreed that the men were sexually insatiable. The constant demand for sexual activities took precedence over all other activities.
When asked to describe the worst sexual abuse suffered, one woman told being hung by her wrists and whipped to the point of unconsciousness, explaining that this degree of suffering and humiliation enabled her partner to become sexually aroused for vaginal intercourse. During the whippings she was not allowed to cry, scream or plead.

This is what you are defending.

This was "consensual".

FBI USA - The Disturbed Mind - Compliant Victims of the Sexual Sadist - Karla Homolka

That is NOT what I'm defending. What happened there was harmful and predatory, and while technically consensual, no healthy BDSM practitioner would get involved with someone so obviously incapable of making informed, healthy choices about her safety and well-being. People like that are usually blacklisted in the kink community. The goal with BDSM is for all participants to ENJOY the interaction and walk away happy and satisfied, just like any other healthy sexual encounter.

 

[Father Time]

Most people in the community draw the line at "lasting physical harm". Basically, if it's going to involve a trip to the doctor, they avoid it.

Taking that statement literally would not be wise, though. By that literal definition, I've caused "lasting physical harm" that certainly involved multiple trips "to the doctor" just from having sex with my wife.

Okay, what the hell are YOU doing in the bedroom? Take the spikes off the strap-on, put down that gerbil, and back away slowly.

I take it you've seen Se7en.

 

[Samson]

They claim she was "mentally deficient". I would suggest that anyone who practices BDSM is "mentally deficient", wouldn't you?

No. Just kinky.

What does "mentally deficient" mean anyways?

Why doesn't rdean post in this thread?

 

[Missourian]

Read the indictment, then get back to me.

Bagley Indictment

 

[Missourian]

Sexual abuse
All the women were sexually abused by the men. Three victims were forcibly penetrated by large foreign objects. One subject used a 12 cell flashlight and also a long cylindrical piece of wood. Almost invariably these items were inserted anally, so as to cause maximal suffering.


Six of the women reported anal intercourse to be their sadistic partner's preferred mode of sexual release. Forced felatio was also reported by all seven women, and these same women reported that the sadists enjoyed ejaculating on their bodies, primarily their face or mouth.


Two of the seven women advised that they had been urinated on, and one reported being required to administer enemas to herself. Three of the women were forced to have sex with others; two were raped by friends of the sadists, and one was forced to engage in sexual acts with another woman who had been kidnapped by her husband.


All seven of the respondents agreed that the men were sexually insatiable. The constant demand for sexual activities took precedence over all other activities.
When asked to describe the worst sexual abuse suffered, one woman told being hung by her wrists and whipped to the point of unconsciousness, explaining that this degree of suffering and humiliation enabled her partner to become sexually aroused for vaginal intercourse. During the whippings she was not allowed to cry, scream or plead.

This is what you are defending.

This was "consensual".

FBI USA - The Disturbed Mind - Compliant Victims of the Sexual Sadist - Karla Homolka

That is NOT what I'm defending. What happened there was harmful and predatory, and while technically consensual, no healthy BDSM practitioner would get involved with someone so obviously incapable of making informed, healthy choices about her safety and well-being. People like that are usually blacklisted in the kink community. The goal with BDSM is for all participants to ENJOY the interaction and walk away happy and satisfied, just like any other healthy sexual encounter.

There is no "heathy" sadism.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Taking that statement literally would not be wise, though. By that literal definition, I've caused "lasting physical harm" that certainly involved multiple trips "to the doctor" just from having sex with my wife.

Okay, what the hell are YOU doing in the bedroom? Take the spikes off the strap-on, put down that gerbil, and back away slowly.

Maybe he meant conception, and the normal, but painful course of delivery.

I don't see that as lasting physical harm. Lasting FINANCIAL harm, maybe.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Virtual kiddie porn harms no one.

Reconcile your positions.

I believe it does harm people, so they're completely reconciled.

I dunno if it does or not. Why not wait until we do know and then decide?

When it comes to child molestation, I'm all about erring on the side of caution.

 

[Missourian]

Sexual sadism involves acts in which a person derives sexual pleasure from inflicting physical or psychologic suffering on another person.
Sadism is the sexual pleasure or gratification in the infliction of pain and suffering upon another person. Medically it is considered to be a paraphilia . The word is derived from the name of the Marquis de Sade, a prolific French writer of sadistic novels.
Sadism is deriving pleasure, often sexual, from mistreating others. Like other paraphilias, some people have fantasies which are sadistic, but they never act upon them. Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior. Some of the severe activities involved in sexual sadism include burning, beating, stabbing, raping, and killing. Usually the thoughts and/or behaviors of sexual sadism begin in adolescence or early adulthood. The behaviors are not only chronic, but they usually increase in severity with time.

Sadism: Sexual Sadism and masochism

 

[Madeline]

I believe it does harm people, so they're completely reconciled.

I dunno if it does or not. Why not wait until we do know and then decide?

When it comes to child molestation, I'm all about erring on the side of caution.

Of course; it should be illegal, and only be decriminalized if it can be shown no harm comes to children from its use.

 

[Samson]

Okay, what the hell are YOU doing in the bedroom? Take the spikes off the strap-on, put down that gerbil, and back away slowly.

Maybe he meant conception, and the normal, but painful course of delivery.

I don't see that as lasting physical harm. Lasting FINANCIAL harm, maybe.

I see it more as lasting financial and psychological harm.

 

[Madeline]

Sexual sadism involves acts in which a person derives sexual pleasure from inflicting physical or psychologic suffering on another person.
Sadism is the sexual pleasure or gratification in the infliction of pain and suffering upon another person. Medically it is considered to be a paraphilia . The word is derived from the name of the Marquis de Sade, a prolific French writer of sadistic novels.
Sadism is deriving pleasure, often sexual, from mistreating others. Like other paraphilias, some people have fantasies which are sadistic, but they never act upon them. Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior. Some of the severe activities involved in sexual sadism include burning, beating, stabbing, raping, and killing. Usually the thoughts and/or behaviors of sexual sadism begin in adolescence or early adulthood. The behaviors are not only chronic, but they usually increase in severity with time.

Sadism: Sexual Sadism and masochism

Your point?

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is what you are defending.

This was "consensual".

FBI USA - The Disturbed Mind - Compliant Victims of the Sexual Sadist - Karla Homolka

That is NOT what I'm defending. What happened there was harmful and predatory, and while technically consensual, no healthy BDSM practitioner would get involved with someone so obviously incapable of making informed, healthy choices about her safety and well-being. People like that are usually blacklisted in the kink community. The goal with BDSM is for all participants to ENJOY the interaction and walk away happy and satisfied, just like any other healthy sexual encounter.

There is no "heathy" sadism.

Really? Where did you get YOUR psychiatric degree?

 

[Madeline]

Maybe he meant conception, and the normal, but painful course of delivery.

I don't see that as lasting physical harm. Lasting FINANCIAL harm, maybe.

I see it more as lasting financial and psychological harm.

Ah, you adore being a Daddy, Samson. Who do ya think you're fooling?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sexual sadism involves acts in which a person derives sexual pleasure from inflicting physical or psychologic suffering on another person.
Sadism is the sexual pleasure or gratification in the infliction of pain and suffering upon another person. Medically it is considered to be a paraphilia . The word is derived from the name of the Marquis de Sade, a prolific French writer of sadistic novels.
Sadism is deriving pleasure, often sexual, from mistreating others. Like other paraphilias, some people have fantasies which are sadistic, but they never act upon them. Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior. Some of the severe activities involved in sexual sadism include burning, beating, stabbing, raping, and killing. Usually the thoughts and/or behaviors of sexual sadism begin in adolescence or early adulthood. The behaviors are not only chronic, but they usually increase in severity with time.

Sadism: Sexual Sadism and masochism

Did you bother to read the entirety of your own citation, or just the part you liked?

"Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior."

Note that your own citation differentiates between those who find willing partners, and those who victimize.

 

[Madeline]

That is NOT what I'm defending. What happened there was harmful and predatory, and while technically consensual, no healthy BDSM practitioner would get involved with someone so obviously incapable of making informed, healthy choices about her safety and well-being. People like that are usually blacklisted in the kink community. The goal with BDSM is for all participants to ENJOY the interaction and walk away happy and satisfied, just like any other healthy sexual encounter.

There is no "heathy" sadism.

Really? Where did you get YOUR psychiatric degree?

Missourian, what sex act is 100% pain-free? It'd have to be 100% sensation-free.

 

[Madeline]

Sexual sadism involves acts in which a person derives sexual pleasure from inflicting physical or psychologic suffering on another person.
Sadism is the sexual pleasure or gratification in the infliction of pain and suffering upon another person. Medically it is considered to be a paraphilia . The word is derived from the name of the Marquis de Sade, a prolific French writer of sadistic novels.
Sadism is deriving pleasure, often sexual, from mistreating others. Like other paraphilias, some people have fantasies which are sadistic, but they never act upon them. Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior. Some of the severe activities involved in sexual sadism include burning, beating, stabbing, raping, and killing. Usually the thoughts and/or behaviors of sexual sadism begin in adolescence or early adulthood. The behaviors are not only chronic, but they usually increase in severity with time.

Sadism: Sexual Sadism and masochism

Did you bother to read the entirety of your own citation, or just the part you liked?

"Also, some people have sexual urges of a sadistic nature, and they find a willing partner who agrees to participate in the sadistic activity. There are people, however, who have sadistic sexual urges who find others whom they victimize with their behavior."

Note that your own citation differentiates between those who find willing partners, and those who victimize.

There is a GINORMOUS difference between those who seek sexual acts of any sort with willing adult partners and those who seek them with UNWILLING victims.

 

[Missourian]

I'm getting to that.

There is no universally accepted cause or theory explaining the origin of sexual sadism, or of sadomasochism. Some researchers attempt to explain the presence of sexual paraphilias in general as the result of biological factors. Evidence for this viewpoint comes from abnormal findings from neuropsychological and neurological tests of sex offenders.
Some researchers believe that paraphilias are related to such other problems as brain injury, schizophrenia , or another mental disorder. Often, people with sexual disorders or symptoms of paraphilia are diagnosed with other mental disorders.
Another theory about paraphilias is derived from learning theory. It suggests that paraphilias develop because the person is required to suppress, or squelch, inappropriate sexual fantasies. Because the fantasies are not acted out initially, the urge to carry them out increases. When the person finally acts upon the fantasies, they are in a state of considerable distress and/or arousal. This theory is not accepted by forensic experts at the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and other researchers who study sexual offenses. Rather than suppressing fantasies, most people who are eventually arrested for crimes involving sexual sadism begin with milder forms of acting on them and progressing to more harmful ways of acting out. For example, the FBI's database indicates that these people— almost always males— start out by collecting pornographic materials that depict sadistic acts, or they may draw ropes and chains on the photographs of models in swimsuit or lingerie advertisements. They then typically progress to following women at a distance, to hiring a prostitute in order to act out the fantasy, and to asking a girlfriend or other willing partner to cooperate with their fantasy. In other words, the severity of sadistic acts tends to increase over time.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sadomasochism_%28Sexual_behavior%29.aspx