Settlers

[Dogmaphobe]

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You support honoring acts that celebrate the mass murder of Jews, yet try to claim you are somehow against terrorism.

Do you think the idiotic double talk is really fooling anybody.

 

[Coyote]

.

You support honoring acts that celebrate the mass murder of Jews, yet try to claim you are somehow against terrorism.

Do you think the idiotic double talk is really fooling anybody.

Really? Got a link for that or are you up to your old games of making shit up?

In the meantime, given the topic and your digressions, are we to assume you support the settler violence and consider these to be noble and good people?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

And yet your hero's put Hitler next to mo'mad and see him as a saint

Heck -- the Mufti al-Husseini WAS a Nazi.

He operated death squads in the Balkans -- a true hero by Coyote's interpretation.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Really? Got a link for that or are you up to your old games of making shit up?

In the meantime, given the topic and your digressions, are we to assume you support the settler violence and consider these to be noble and good people?

No, I do not support them at all.

Just because you support Pally terrorism, that does not mean others are like you. Some of us use reason and logic instead of joining a hate movement with cult-like devotion.

 

[Coyote]

How many Settlers do you know ? Because I've met more than a few. They are as noble as noble gets. They feel an extremely strong sense of ethnic and cultural pride and simply will not be intimidated. I give them a lot of credit for sticking up for themselves.

Its the Arab Muslims that are the intolerant extremists. Let me ask you this. How many Jews are in Gaza or the Arab areas of the disputed territories ? VS how many Arabs Israel and Israeli areas ?

Its a no brainer as to who's being intolerant.

As for violence thats also a no brainer. Lets look at this latest wave of violence. 28 Arab Muslims out of a mob of hundreds were shot while attacking Israeli's today. TODAY alone.

And they are children. The Arab Muslims have taken to sending their own children forward with knives and rocks. I can't think of anything less noble.

No I'll take my settler friends over a raving hoard anyday.

How many Palestinians do you know?

How is stoning kids on the way to school as "noble as noble gets"?

How many do you know in reality

Probably more than you.

Ask that of the Palestinians who did it for many years before the tit for tat responses became headline news. Strange that wasn't it while the Palestinians were stoning children going to school it was not a topic of interest, as soon as Jews started to reply with stones of their own it became a war crime.

How do you know the Palestinians were stoning children going to school - you have a source for that?

By the way did you know that the IRA stoned children on their way to school and then whinged when the stones came back ten fold.

And? I'm no fan of the IRA.

Arabs Allegedly Throw Rocks at 20-Month-Old Israeli Baby’s Face

And? That article is about a stone throwing incident directed at a car.
It doesn't show Palestinians were stoning Israeli children before the Israeli settlers were stoning Palestinian children in tit for tat.

Nice try though.

 

[Coyote]

And yet your hero's put Hitler next to mo'mad and see him as a saint

Heck -- the Mufti al-Husseini WAS a Nazi.

He operated death squads in the Balkans -- a true hero by Coyote's interpretation.

Or yours perhaps. You don't seem to make distinctions or have much integrity, per your behavior here.

Heros are complicated, though some mass murderers can go on to do greater things - Menachen Begin and Nelson Mandella come to mind. Both began as terrorists. I far prefer heros like Doctors without Borders over the killers you and Phoenal seem obsessed with, or Baruch Goldstein who is a hero to many settlers.

 

[Coyote]

Really? Got a link for that or are you up to your old games of making shit up?

In the meantime, given the topic and your digressions, are we to assume you support the settler violence and consider these to be noble and good people?

No, I do not support them at all.

Just because you support Pally terrorism, that does not mean others are like you. Some of us use reason and logic instead of joining a hate movement with cult-like devotion.

Again - link to that support. Surely you can find a quote or something. Otherwise, I'll assume you are blowing hot air, and perhaps - your disclaimer is also just so much hot air.

 

[Coyote]

Its quite subtle, but this is justification for committing terrorism. Its supporting the idea that terrorism is somehow NECESSARY for the achievement of political goals and no longer necessary once those political goals have been achieved. Nothing could be further from the truth.

It's not justification - what I'm pointing out is how the emphasis is always on the Arab violence, yet there was considerable Jewish gang activity as well. The thing that changes is that once you have a state, then you no longer need gangs and thugs to accomplish your goals - you have a state military, and the power of a state and what you do is legal. It's easy then, isn't it - to control the narrative and paint your own terrorists as heros and the other side's terrorists as terrorists? Aren't they all? Yet they acted the same - targeting and murdering civilians. It's so important for one side to paint itself as peaceful but it wasn't. Not at all. At least the Palestinians aren't pretending to be anything but what they are.

I'm feeling extremely cynical right now, so I'm going to ask this - has ANY state been won without any terrorism? That's not a justification - it's me wondering it it is ever possible to attain something peacefully? Mahatma Ghandi is one of my heros, but India's independence was hardly peaceful.

I'm not sure how much you know about Ghandi, but he was an asshole. Everyone who worked with him universally reported this. The man was a nightmare to work with.

His entire peacenik approach was staged.

He'd jump up and down and yell and scream at his staff. There's even reliable reports of him striking staff members.

You really might pick a different hero

Ghandi ranks right up there with MLK

Oh and neither were settlers ;--)

I would put him in the same league as Hitler, Mandella and arafat

To put any of those people in the same league as Hitler is beyond ignorant.

And yet your hero's put Hitler next to mo'mad and see him as a saint

No, they don't put him next to Mohammed or see him as a saint. (predictable picture of mufti and hitler coming 4...3....2....)

 

[Dogmaphobe]

[
Or yours perhaps. You don't seem to make distinctions or have much integrity, per your behavior here.

Heros are complicated, though some mass murderers can go on to do greater things - Menachen Begin and Nelson Mandella come to mind. Both began as terrorists. I far prefer heros like Doctors without Borders over the killers you and Phoenal seem obsessed with, or Baruch Goldstein who is a hero to many settlers.

You are a double-talking weasel, a complete, fucking weasel of a human being, and you, of all people have no business commenting on the integrity of others.

Your legitimizing the process of rewarding the mass murder of Jews and then indulging in a bunch of bullshit after doing so is tantamount to a person legitimizing the lynching of black people and then immediately trying to claim they have no sympathy for the KKK.

You may think of yourself as some sort of saint for having heroes who are mass murderers of a small ethnicity, but there is NO amount of double-talking crap you can offer to fool the human beings among us that you are.

 

[Coyote]

[
Or yours perhaps. You don't seem to make distinctions or have much integrity, per your behavior here.

Heros are complicated, though some mass murderers can go on to do greater things - Menachen Begin and Nelson Mandella come to mind. Both began as terrorists. I far prefer heros like Doctors without Borders over the killers you and Phoenal seem obsessed with, or Baruch Goldstein who is a hero to many settlers.

You are a double-talking weasel, a complete, fucking weasel of a human being, and you, of all people have no business commenting on the integrity of others.

Your legitimizing the process of rewarding the mass murder of Jews and then indulging in a bunch of bullshit after doing so is tantamount to a person legitimizing the lynching of black people and then immediately trying to claim they have no sympathy for the KKK.

And where did I "legitimize" anything? All I did was point out that sometimes people can transcend violence and go on to do greater things - that doesn't erase what they did, and that applies to very few people - for example the two I gave as an example are the only ones I can think of. You think of everything as black and white only, when it's not.

Begin and Mandella began as terrorists, that is without dispute. They could have gone on down that path, and eventually died as terrorists. Yet somehow they transcended the violence in order to achieve something greater. Begin worked at making peace between Israel and it's neighbors - signing a peace with Egypt. Mandella won freedom for South Africa's black population, and pursued a truth and reconciliation path to forge unity and heal his country. I think both men can be honestly considered great men, despite their beginnings. I also do not see any Begin's or Mandella's among the Palestinians, which is a pity because that is what they need.

Take that as you wish.

You may think of yourself as some sort of saint for having heroes who are mass murderers of a small ethnicity, but there is NO amount of double-talking crap you can offer to fool the human beings among us that you are.

Are these your heros?

Polls among settlers, however, show that over half do not even recognize the government’s authority to evacuate settlements (since this would contradict their interpretation of Divine will and Jewish religious law) — and a full 20 percent say they would take up weapons to oppose such a move. Indeed, the settler population is well-armed, and almost all adults among them have the right to carry “personal weapons,” usually semiautomatic assault rifles or submachine guns, for self-defense. A decade ago, Knesset Member Ran Cohen secured documents from Israel’s Defense Ministry indicating that settlements also held “enormous weapons caches,” possibly including mortars and armed vehicles. These items were reportedly supplied by the IDF in the 1980s and 1990s for settlement-based “territorial defense auxiliaries” and civil guard units.

How, then, will Israel manage to evacuate more than 1 percent of its citizens, who have a support base many times that size, without catalyzing a civil war marked by violent acts of sedition?

While the settler community is far from monolithic, members of its extremist wing have shown a willingness to organize violently to achieve their ends. The “Jewish Underground” of the 1980s, famous for its attempt to assassinate nationalist Palestinian mayors, was an early iteration of “settler terrorism,” and there have been others. For the last five years, such settlers have decided on a “price tag” policy, engaging in acts of violence in retaliation for any step by the Israeli government (e.g., uprooting an unauthorized outpost or restricting West Bank construction) that weakens the settlement enterprise. These “price tag” acts have included attacks on Palestinian civilians, destruction of property, uprooting of olive trees, burning of mosque and fields, attacks on Israeli police and soldiers, and death threats to left-wing Israeli activists.

​

 

[Phoenall]

Many of the "settlers" are intolerant and violent extremists - there is nothing brave or wonderful about them. .

In other words, this minority of Jews are almost as bad as the absolutely overwhelming majority of Palestinians.

With this being so, why, then why is your singular mission in life to promote the interests of this group of people in question? You know they celebrate mass murder by naming streets after the murderer. You know their children's television encourages the murder of Jews. You know they elected leadership that promises genocide of Jews.


Is your hatred of Jews SO severe that you dedicate the bulk of your internet efforts to promoting the interests of a group with these objectives?

Maybe it is just an age thing, but as a baby boomer, the memory of the Holocaust was a recent one in the society in which I was raised, and anybody talking like you and your merry little band of followers here would have been shunned by polite society.

If the "overwelming majority" of Palestinians were violent extremists, the WB would be a nonstop bloodbath.

Do you sleep 23 hours a day, it is very close to being that. It is only the vigilance of the IDF and Jews that stop even more attacks. But it shows that the measures taken by the Jews stop the west bank from being a bloodbath and the Palestinians from being wiped out

When you look at total numbers of people - both Jews and Palestinians - and you look at total numbers of attacks, you will see that horrific as they are - they are far from common.

BULLSHIT the attacks have been going on since Abbas ordered the Palestinians to murder the Jews just 2 months ago. I did not see Netanyahu ordering the Jews to attack the Palestinians. And the Mayor of Jerusalem advising the Jews to carry guns for their own protection is not the same thing. I would say 2000 illegal weapons fired at Israel is a very common thing, jut as the attacks in Jerusalem alone are very common




Five Palestinian assailants killed in fresh attacks on Israelis

 

[Shusha]

I also do not see any Begin's or Mandella's among the Palestinians, which is a pity because that is what they need.

​

I just want to highlight this. Its important.

 

[Boston1]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...iWyOijH8Yj0GkJA5weyzTg&bvm=bv.114195076,d.amc

Quote

The Ma'alot massacre[1] was a Palestinian terrorist attack that occurred in May 1974 and involved a two-day hostage-taking of 115 Israeli people which ended in the murders of over 25 hostages. It began when three armed members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)[2] entered Israel from Lebanon. Soon afterwards they attacked a van, killing two Israeli Arab women while injuring a third and entered an apartment building in the town of Ma'alot, where they killed a couple and their four-year-old son.[3] From there, they headed for the Netiv Meir Elementary School, where they took more than 115 people (including 105 children) hostage on 15 May 1974, in Ma'alot. Most of the hostages were teenagers from a high school in Safad on a Gadna field trip spending the night in Ma'alot. The hostage-takers soon issued demands for the release of 23 Palestinian militants from Israeli prisons, or else they would kill the students. On the second day of the standoff, a unit of the Golani Brigade stormed the building. During the takeover, the hostage-takers killed children with grenades and automatic weapons. Ultimately, 25 hostages, including 22 children, were killed and 68 more were injured.

End Quote

It is ridiculous to argue that Arab Muslims in Israel have not deliberately attacked Israeli children

If you need another example

See

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6t1IqNJbEJ4WPGP9C1SoSA&bvm=bv.114195076,d.amc

Quote

The victims were the father Ehud (Udi) Fogel, the mother Ruth Fogel, and three of their six children—Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and Hadas, the youngest, a three-month-old infant. The infant was decapitated.[4

End Quote

These are the people you are defending Coyote. Rather than acknowledging the honor of a native people returning to their native lands, being willing to share it and finding those who've colonized their native lands; you are defending the Arab Muslim colonists who have stated their intention is to wipe out every Jew from the river to the sea.

I have a lot of respect for the Judaic people returning to their lands. And none for the racist Arab Muslims who would prefer to just kill them all and keep their land. The people you are defending.

 

[Coyote]

I also do not see any Begin's or Mandella's among the Palestinians, which is a pity because that is what they need.

​

I just want to highlight this. Its important.

Unfortunately, yes it is and I think it's one of the biggest stumbling blocks towards peace.

 

[Coyote]

It is ridiculous to argue that Arab Muslims in Israel have not deliberately attacked Israeli children

Hold on right there. This is what happens when you jump into the middle of another argument without having read all of it.

I'm NOT arguing that the Palestinians have not deliberately attacked Israeli children - there is plenty of evidence to support that. No argument from me.

What Phoenal was arguing was that the stone throwing targeting Palestinian children going to school by Israeli settlers was tit for tat for stone throwing targeting settler children going to school by Palestinians - so who threw the first stone? I asked for proof of his claim and he provided a video of a child injured in an incident of stones thrown at a car. Not what I was asking.

 

[Coyote]

I also do not see any Begin's or Mandella's among the Palestinians, which is a pity because that is what they need.

​

I just want to highlight this. Its important.

Unfortunately, yes it is and I think it's one of the biggest stumbling blocks towards peace.

Many of the "settlers" are intolerant and violent extremists - there is nothing brave or wonderful about them. .

In other words, this minority of Jews are almost as bad as the absolutely overwhelming majority of Palestinians.

With this being so, why, then why is your singular mission in life to promote the interests of this group of people in question? You know they celebrate mass murder by naming streets after the murderer. You know their children's television encourages the murder of Jews. You know they elected leadership that promises genocide of Jews.


Is your hatred of Jews SO severe that you dedicate the bulk of your internet efforts to promoting the interests of a group with these objectives?

Maybe it is just an age thing, but as a baby boomer, the memory of the Holocaust was a recent one in the society in which I was raised, and anybody talking like you and your merry little band of followers here would have been shunned by polite society.

If the "overwelming majority" of Palestinians were violent extremists, the WB would be a nonstop bloodbath.

Do you sleep 23 hours a day, it is very close to being that. It is only the vigilance of the IDF and Jews that stop even more attacks. But it shows that the measures taken by the Jews stop the west bank from being a bloodbath and the Palestinians from being wiped out

When you look at total numbers of people - both Jews and Palestinians - and you look at total numbers of attacks, you will see that horrific as they are - they are far from common.

BULLSHIT the attacks have been going on since Abbas ordered the Palestinians to murder the Jews just 2 months ago. I did not see Netanyahu ordering the Jews to attack the Palestinians. And the Mayor of Jerusalem advising the Jews to carry guns for their own protection is not the same thing. I would say 2000 illegal weapons fired at Israel is a very common thing, jut as the attacks in Jerusalem alone are very common




Five Palestinian assailants killed in fresh attacks on Israelis

How many total attacks? There are some 4.4 million Palestinians.

 

[Coyote]

What's honorable about grown people stoning innocent children?

 

[Boston1]

It is ridiculous to argue that Arab Muslims in Israel have not deliberately attacked Israeli children

Hold on right there. This is what happens when you jump into the middle of another argument without having read all of it.

I'm NOT arguing that the Palestinians have not deliberately attacked Israeli children - there is plenty of evidence to support that. No argument from me.

What Phoenal was arguing was that the stone throwing targeting Palestinian children going to school by Israeli settlers was tit for tat for stone throwing targeting settler children going to school by Palestinians - so who threw the first stone? I asked for proof of his claim and he provided a video of a child injured in an incident of stones thrown at a car. Not what I was asking.

And now, I'm asking proof of the claim. The latest incident I was able to look up stated two unidentified masked men threw stones injuring a 6 year old Arab Muslim child.

Do you have any actual evidence which might help identify the assailants and if so have you notified the authorities ?

We can easily show that Arab Muslims in Israel typically target woman and children. So were is your evidence to suggest the same concerning settlers ?

I'm still looking for the incident you might be referring to however this is about the most detailed report I've found so far on most recent events. Even that is two years old


Quote

At least seven Palestinian children were injured Sunday south of Nablus after settlers threw stones at them, according to Palestinian sources.

Eight Palestinian girls were lightly injured by settlers from Yitzhar who whisked rocks in their direction and then drove away, AFP reported, quoting an unnamed Palestinian Authority official.

End Quote

Which of course provides zero evidence to support the claim, even the so called official is anonymous

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Do they celebrate mass murderers by naming streets after the murderer? Why yes, they do. .

Thus their appeal.

It is rather difficult for you to argue that you are not an antisemite when you consider these your heroes. .

I don't consider the Irgun or any terrorists to be my heros.

The people I consider heros are people like MLK, Ghandi, James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, Izzeldin Abulaish, members of Doctors Without Borders and journalists who report about events in defiance of violence and threats.

My heroes are Jonas Saulk and Marie Curie and Louis Pasteur and Thomas Edison and George Washing Carver.

Yours are Sirhan Sirhan and Yasser Arafat, and the black september gang and Gamal Abdul Nasser.

To each their own, I guess.

 

[Boston1]

Love you Dog but Edison was another complete jack ass.

Dig it up and burry it again cause that jerk was a major antisemite if their ever was one.

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