Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[frigidweirdo]

I do believe that JohnDB also brought up this point once before. Why don't fathers ever have their right to refuse an abortion and take care of their own kid?

I'd say this.

Because men have always traditionally been further removed from a child's upbringing than women. It's a generalization, you'll always find cases where it's different. I worked with a guy who's wife had post natal depression, so he was the main child carer. However in 95% or more of cases, the woman is the main person in a child's life. Men, the hunters, go out and hunt, which in the modern era means being the bread winner. Single parents are most likely to be women. Men are more likely to go off and cheat, and then leave than women are.

Imagine a dude says "yeah, you can't have an abortion" and then doesn't bring the child up, it's more shocking than if a woman did that.

Also, the obvious "the fetus spends 9 months inside the woman"

 

[JohnDB]

I am sure some women, depending on their age, do get to ask the father if they want an abortion or raise the child if the guy is willing.

What is the percentage of that happening, if you do know?

Not all women have an abortion without talking it over with their partner. Some times it is a one night thing and they do not know the guy, or where to find them, who are they going to ask?

One night stands are disgusting and just gross on so many levels...you aren't much of a decent human being if you engage in that sort of activity.
Secondly...live birth rates are public information for every community with a public health department.
Women are more likely to use a pregnancy and child as a paycheck instead of as a inconvenience...there is no stigma left for single parent families. Single parent families are now the number one demographic group in America...nuclear families are in second place. That happened in spite of "easy access" abortion and birth control methods.

If you have normal heterosexual sex you should expect to become a parent.
I was talking to my apprentice one day about him and his girlfriend and I asked him a question, "What are you doing that is different from a couple trying to have a baby?"
He of course had no answer....they were doing nothing....not even condoms or BCP. Of course she is going to get pregnant and she is going to get access to his paycheck for the next 20+ years. (Which is why young professionals need to be careful)

Women may choose to be career driven or not...childbearing has no weight in decision making for her to choose a career or not.

 

[JohnDB]

I'd say this.

Because men have always traditionally been further removed from a child's upbringing than women. It's a generalization, you'll always find cases where it's different. I worked with a guy who's wife had post natal depression, so he was the main child carer. However in 95% or more of cases, the woman is the main person in a child's life. Men, the hunters, go out and hunt, which in the modern era means being the bread winner. Single parents are most likely to be women. Men are more likely to go off and cheat, and then leave than women are.

Imagine a dude says "yeah, you can't have an abortion" and then doesn't bring the child up, it's more shocking than if a woman did that.

Also, the obvious "the fetus spends 9 months inside the woman"

Decent men are absolutely involved with child rearing and caregivers. I don't know many who aren't. Sure there's a few dumb kids who want to play at being sexist as the kids think being macho gives them gravitas. But it doesn't last as they grow up.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Decent men are absolutely involved with child rearing and caregivers. I don't know many who aren't. Sure there's a few dumb kids who want to play at being sexist as the kids think being macho gives them gravitas. But it doesn't last as they grow up.

I didn't say they weren't.

 

[Red Front]

I do believe that JohnDB also brought up this point once before. Why don't fathers ever have their right to refuse an abortion and take care of their own kid?

I agree. Men should have the right to "abort" any future parental obligations to an embryo or unviable, undeveloped fetus. As a communist, and leftist, I acknowledge this point as valid, how can I not in view of the fact that women who abort their pregnancies are doing it because for whatever reason, don't feel like bearing the responsibility of being a mother? Fatherhood should also be a matter of choice, not just motherhood. A woman shouldn't have the right to impose fatherhood on a man that doesn't want to be a father. In an ideal world, people would only have sex when they're ready to be a parent but unfortunately, we don't live in that perfect world. Forcing women to remain pregnant, especially early in gestation is wrong and leads to the birth of unwanted children who often end up being raised by the state or in a foster home funded by the government. These people, unfortunately, end up homeless or in prison, at much higher rates than people who are born to parents that want them.

A significant % of unwanted children, aren't adopted and they end up like this:

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or like this:

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If we want to eliminate abortion, we should eliminate poverty, and scarcity as much as possible. Many women (not all but many), that abort their pregnancies do it due to poverty. Lack of resources. They don't have the money to raise a child alone, without any assistance from anyone. The so-called "pro-life" people, often vote for politicians that defund social programs that help single mothers raise their children. All women don't have parents that are willing to take care of their grandchildren when they're at work, during the day. These single mothers need daycare for their children, they need school lunch programs, they need affordable housing, food, job training, and employment opportunities. The government, local, state, and federal, can assist these women with raising their children and improving their lives. Helping them and their children become productive, successful members of society. If women are forced to remain pregnant and give birth, to children they don't want or are able to raise, this will lead to more pain, suffering and death.

The pro-life people should ask themselves " AM I REALLY BEING PRO-LIFE WHEN I FORCE WOMEN TO GIVE BIRTH TO CHILDREN THEY CAN'T RAISE AND I'M NOT WILLING TO SUPPORT A SYSTEM THAT HELPS SINGLE MOTHERS RAISE THEIR CHILDREN? I CAN SPEND $28 A WEEK OR MORE ON PAPA JOHNS PIZZA BUT I'M NOT WILLING TO PAY $20 MONTHLY MORE IN TAXES TO SUPPORT PROGRAMS THAT HELP WOMEN RAISE THEIR CHILDREN? AM I REALLY PRO-LIFE? DO I GENUINELY CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN AND THE FETUSES IN OTHER PEOPLE'S WOMBS OR AM I JUST USING THE ABORTION ISSUE AS A MEANS TO PUNISH WOMEN I CONSIDER TO BE HARLOTS/SEXUALLY PROMISCUOUS AND SUPPOSEDLY WORTHY OF PUNISHMENT?"

 

[Road Runner]

Because compelling someone else to labor for you is slavery.

Who's compelling anybody to do anything? I missed that part.

 

[alang1216]

Because compelling someone else to labor for you is slavery.

Who's compelling anybody to do anything? I missed that part.

Compelling a pregnant woman to give birth is, quite literally, compelling her to go into labor she doesn't want. Sounds like slavery to me.

 

[JohnDB]

Compelling a pregnant woman to give birth is, quite literally, compelling her to go into labor she doesn't want. Sounds like slavery to me.

Sounds more like compelling everyone else to pay for the consequences of actions and choices if you support abortion...
Especially the unborn child.

 

[alang1216]

Sounds more like compelling everyone else to pay for the consequences of actions and choices if you support abortion...
Especially the unborn child.

As I wrote elsewhere: You can define 'person' however you wish. Personally I think a person is more than a few strands of unique DNA. Every living creature on Earth (except maybe viruses) have unique DNA, only humans can develop a brain that is unique and worth protecting. Until that happens they not persons any more than a brain-dead, car accident victim, lying in a coma, is a person.

 

[Moonglow]

I do believe that JohnDB also brought up this point once before. Why don't fathers ever have their right to refuse an abortion and take care of their own kid?

We do.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Compelling a pregnant woman to give birth is, quite literally, compelling her to go into labor she doesn't want. Sounds like slavery to me.

Then why did she get pregnant?

Sounds like she CHOSE to be an irresponsible idiot. Is that what you mean when you talk about being PRO-CHOICE?

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

As I wrote elsewhere: You can define 'person' however you wish. Personally I think a person is more than a few strands of unique DNA. Every living creature on Earth (except maybe viruses) have unique DNA, only humans can develop a brain that is unique and worth protecting. Until that happens they not persons any more than a brain-dead, car accident victim, lying in a coma, is a person.

Sick and wrong.

 

[JohnDB]

Then why did she get pregnant?

Sounds like she CHOSE to be an irresponsible idiot. Is that what you mean when you talk about being PRO-CHOICE?

Well it wasn't just a "she" in the mix unless something has changed in over 6000 years.

Sperm donor had something to do with this as well. He also chose to breed this woman and have consequences for his actions and choices.
HE could have gotten a vasectomy, used a condom, used male sterilization drugs...but he didn't. He is just as responsible for the situation as she is.

Domestic adoption of babies is viable and something in high demand. In fact it's expensive to do because of the lack of babies. The waiting lists are years long...not weeks or months.

 

[Road Runner]

Compelling a pregnant woman to give birth is, quite literally, compelling her to go into labor she doesn't want. Sounds like slavery to me.

Unless it's a case of rape nobody forced her to get pregnant in the first place.

 

[JohnDB]

As I wrote elsewhere: You can define 'person' however you wish. Personally I think a person is more than a few strands of unique DNA. Every living creature on Earth (except maybe viruses) have unique DNA, only humans can develop a brain that is unique and worth protecting. Until that happens they not persons any more than a brain-dead, car accident victim, lying in a coma, is a person.

So if one day we decide that everyone suffering from a mental deficiency, no matter how slight, being labeled "not a person " is acceptable to you?

It isn't to the rest of humanity. But it does seem to that your definition needs some work and more logic to it. Every stroke victim and motorcycle rider is likely going to qualify for your warped designation....as well as every infant.

At what point is a baby a person?

 

[Road Runner]

At what point is a baby a person?

To the pro-choicers it's if and when the mother wants it, if not it's just a clump of cells. Sad, but true.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

To the pro-choicers it's if and when the mother wants it, if not it's just a clump of cells. Sad, but true.

You never hear a leftist using that "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" bullshit line when they are pregnant with a wanted child. Hypocritical pigs.

 

[martybegan]

You're a hostage taker.

One could say a woman who keeps a baby after a man doesn't want to is involved in involuntary servitude.

 

[Road Runner]

You never hear a leftist using that "It's not a baby, it's a fetus" bullshit line when they are pregnant with a wanted child. Hypocritical pigs.

Yeah it's all congratulations then you're having a baby!! Not to mention the fact that when a pregnant woman is murdered it's a charge of two accounts.

 

[martybegan]

To the pro-choicers it's if and when the mother wants it, if not it's just a clump of cells. Sad, but true.

Schrodinger's Fetus?