Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[Road Runner]

And before that point the child is not a person?

No,.. they're gas.

 

[martybegan]

Men share none of the risks, they shouldn’t have equal say.

They are made to share all of the responsibility regardless of if they want it.

Women have an out in abortion legal states, with zero say given to the men. Why shouldn't men have an out with zero say given to the woman?

Or do you subscribe to the "woman as the weaker sex" in this case only?

 

[Coyote]

They are made to share all of the responsibility regardless of if they want it.

By nature, women will always bare most of the costs of a pregnancy: the emotional toll, the physical risks, the complete changing and reordering of her. Despite what I hear some say…it isn’t just nine months and that is that. It is everything happening inside HER and HER life first and foremost.

A lot of men want to be part of it, not outside of it. But many men don’t, they don’t want to be a father maybe, they want to finish their education or build a career, not a family. And I get that. Funny though, how folks here immediately call thesewomen sluts yet while maintaining silence on men.

I don’t think it is totally that men have less of a choice here, but then again…I also don’t it is fair that woman have to take a bigger share of the burden so maybe it will even out.

Women have an out in abortion legal states, with zero say given to the men. Why shouldn't men have an out with zero say given to the woman?

Because a man can do that any time, with no invasive procedures on his body, no nine months of pregnancy and it’s risks and complications.

If a woman has an out with abortion, so does that man. Neither has a child.

If a man chooses an out, the woman is still left with a child to care fore.

Or do you subscribe to the "woman as the weaker sex" in this case only?

? Don’t see the relevance.

 

[Coyote]

So are you saying that the presence of oxygen and nitrogen in a babies lungs is the point when the baby achieves personhood?

I am saying when they take their first breath, they are a person.

And before that point the child is not a person?

No. But that doesn’t mean without rights.

No biological or sentience qualifications?

Personhood isn’t based on either of those.

So partial birth abortion in the 9th month of a pregnancy is perfectly fine?

No. Not to mention there is no such thing.

 

[martybegan]

By nature, women will always bare most of the costs of a pregnancy: the emotional toll, the physical risks, the complete changing and reordering of her. Despite what I hear some say…it isn’t just nine months and that is that. It is everything happening inside HER and HER life first and foremost.

A lot of men want to be part of it, not outside of it. But many men don’t, they don’t want to be a father maybe, they want to finish their education or build a career, not a family. And I get that. Funny though, how folks here immediately call thesewomen sluts yet while maintaining silence on men.

I don’t think it is totally that men have less of a choice here, but then again…I also don’t it is fair that woman have to take a bigger share of the burden so maybe it will even out.




Because a man can do that any time, with no invasive procedures on his body, no nine months of pregnancy and it’s risks and complications.

If a woman has an out with abortion, so does that man. Neither has a child.

If a man chooses an out, the woman is still left with a child to care fore.



? Don’t see the relevance.

Nope, the government comes after him if he doesn't want anything to do with the kid.

You don't see it because you don't want to.

 

[alang1216]

So abortion after a rape is 'understandable'. OK. What if the woman uses a contraceptive that fails and she gets pregnant and has an abortion. Is that 'understandable'?

No, birth control isn't one hundred percent.

In both cases her pregnancy is unplanned and not due to her fault yet they are somehow different. Do you want to punish women just because they want sex?

 

[JohnDB]

In both cases her pregnancy is unplanned and not due to her fault yet they are somehow different. Do you want to punish women just because they want sex?

Last I heard vibrators do not get women pregnant.

 

[alang1216]

Last I heard vibrators do not get women pregnant.

Some women enjoy intimacy with their partners. I guess you don't know any women like that.

 

[JohnDB]

Some women enjoy intimacy with their partners. I guess you don't know any women like that.

Sex with a person has consequences. Sex, in any form, does not come without consequences...just like cutting off an arm has consequences. You may not want the consequences but they still exist. You might want to mitigate those consequences but that's where the legal system steps in.

The communities of America have the right to choose if Abortion is Eugenics. You may believe what you wish but your actions are not allowed to inflict harm on another person. You are allowed to move to another place that agrees with your beliefs if you find yourself in a minority opinion.

 

[alang1216]

Sex with a person has consequences. Sex, in any form, does not come without consequences...just like cutting off an arm has consequences. You may not want the consequences but they still exist. You might want to mitigate those consequences but that's where the legal system steps in.

The communities of America have the right to choose if Abortion is Eugenics. You may believe what you wish but your actions are not allowed to inflict harm on another person. You are allowed to move to another place that agrees with your beliefs if you find yourself in a minority opinion.

Key word: inflict harm on another person
I agree you're exactly right but person is not a scientific term, that is a term defined by society.

 

[JohnDB]

Key word: inflict harm on another person
I agree you're exactly right but person is not a scientific term, that is a term defined by society.

And local societies can elect to define a fetus as being a person as well as Eugenics is not allowed in their community due to their high respect for human life.

Where I can understand this...what I do not understand is the incongruity in these communities with their positions on capital punishment (death penalty) .

The Catholic Church has a long standing position towards both...it's congruent. "Life begins at conception " and they do not believe in the death penalty. Where I'm not Catholic and I dont agree with them, their positions are completely congruent and understandable. They have a high value on every life regardless of their contribution to society or ability to participate in society. Eugenics is diametrically in opposition to their beliefs. And we allow them their opinions because they are not harmful to people. They err on the side of caution. They also have low cost adoption agencies devoid of babies but waiting lists of prospective parents. Any unwanted pregnancy may be disposed of by utilizing them with all costs covered for the birth mother and lower costs for the parents.

 

[alang1216]

And local societies can elect to define a fetus as being a person as well as Eugenics is not allowed in their community due to their high respect for human life.

I don't disagree but I would note the need to balance the rights of the fetus with the rights of the mother.

Where I can understand this...what I do not understand is the incongruity in these communities with their positions on capital punishment (death penalty) .

Agreed. What I do not understand is the position of many that once that baby is born it and its parents are on their own. They are willing to accept the suffering of the baby in order to punish the parents.

The Catholic Church has a long standing position towards both...it's congruent. "Life begins at conception " and they do not believe in the death penalty. Where I'm not Catholic and I dont agree with them, their positions are completely congruent and understandable. They have a high value on every life regardless of their contribution to society or ability to participate in society. Eugenics is diametrically in opposition to their beliefs. And we allow them their opinions because they are not harmful to people. They err on the side of caution. They also have low cost adoption agencies devoid of babies but waiting lists of prospective parents. Any unwanted pregnancy may be disposed of by utilizing them with all costs covered for the birth mother and lower costs for the parents.

I'm not big on 'slippery slope' arguments but I fear it is a short trip from paying for unwanted pregnancies to commercial baby mills.

 

[Road Runner]

In both cases her pregnancy is unplanned and not due to her fault yet they are somehow different. Do you want to punish women just because they want sex?

It IS her fault because she should know that it still isn't one hundred percent. Although birth control pills seem more affective than condoms.

 

[Red Front]

These religious Republican hypocrites pretend to be concerned about life in other people's wombs but then cut all of the funding for government-run social programs that help low-income families, especially single mothers, raise their children. They want to eliminate food stamps, housing programs, rent relief, daycare, and school lunch programs, they want to make it impossible for the poor to qualify for Medicaid by requiring them to have a diagnosed disability, they want to cut FAFSA financial aid for college students, pell grants for vocational-job training, they want to eliminate federal government employment programs and essentially have people begging on their knees for charity on GoFundMe or at the doorstep of the Salvation Army. That's their "morality" if we can call it that. They pretend to be concerned about life, calling themselves "pro-life" but they're the furthest thing from that, due to how they vote and behave. Let's not even mention the fact that they love war with Muslims. Whatever the US military can do against Muslims they're all in and for it.

These American Evangelical Republicans are the vilest creatures on Earth, due to how hypocritical and ignorant they are. Many of them are racists, bigots..etc. Just repulsive people with their fake righteous, sanctimonious bullshit. Do-gooders are the most dangerous people on this planet, especially the religious type. Whining about mask mandates in the middle of a nationwide deadly pandemic, on the basis that supposedly the government doesn't have a right to force them to wear a mask on their faces (bodies) in public, yet they have the nerve to turn around and use that same government to force women to remain pregnant for nine months, bearing all of the hazards of pregnancy, which might include being fired from their only source of income (i.e. losing their jobs). You "Christians", fake disciples of Jesus are disgusting. I say "fake disciples" of Jesus because I like Jesus, I just don't like those who claim to represent him. With few exceptions, they're trash.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I'd say this.

Because men have always traditionally been further removed from a child's upbringing than women. It's a generalization, you'll always find cases where it's different. I worked with a guy who's wife had post natal depression, so he was the main child carer. However in 95% or more of cases, the woman is the main person in a child's life. Men, the hunters, go out and hunt, which in the modern era means being the bread winner. Single parents are most likely to be women. Men are more likely to go off and cheat, and then leave than women are.

Imagine a dude says "yeah, you can't have an abortion" and then doesn't bring the child up, it's more shocking than if a woman did that.

Also, the obvious "the fetus spends 9 months inside the woman"

The CHILD spends 9 months on the he womb"fetus" is a designation of the STAGE of that humans development used to dehumanize the act of murder of an innocent human life

 

[Coyote]

It IS her fault because she should know that it still isn't one hundred percent. Although birth control pills seem more affective than condoms.

Nothing is a hundred percent. If woman keeps her car maintained, takes it for a drive and the brakes fail so she hits a tree….is it her fault? Should she not drive?

 

[Road Runner]

Nothing is a hundred percent. If woman keeps her car maintained, takes it for a drive and the brakes fail so she hits a tree….is it her fault? Should she not drive?

How is that relevant?

 

[Coyote]

How is that relevant?

If some one does everything they can for safe sex, she shouldn’t be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy and labeled by some here a “slut”.

 

[sparky]

I am saying when they take their first breath, they are a person.

isn't a fetus sentient?

~S~

 

[Road Runner]

If some one does everything they can for safe sex, she shouldn’t be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy and labeled by some here a “slut”.

1. Those are two entirely different situations.

2. If she doesn't want it and her partner doesn't? Why don't they adopt it out to somebody who will and might possibly be incapable of having their own biological child?