Selective Memories

[Flanders]

John Kerry is a true American Patriot. He fought for his country and then fought to save the lives of his fellow soldiers by getting us out of an unjust war

To rightwinger: Say it often enough and you might believe it.

In an interview published in the Wall Street Journal that will hardly be noticed outside conservative circles, the North Vietnam general who received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30, 1975, has confirmed every argument made by the right about the war in Vietnam: It was a war to stop an aggression from the North, not to suppress a revolution in the South; it was a war that America could have won--by cutting off the Ho Chi Minh Trail through which North Vietnam was invading the South; it was a war that the left and its "anti-war" movement caused America to lose by sapping its will to fight.​

Incidentally, to be fair, John Kerry was not famous when he was betraying the country. He was a US Senator in 1995 when General Bui Tin was interviewed; so he had every reason to protect Kerry:

Young asked if the anti-war movement was important to Hanoi's victory. General Bui answered: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Atty. Gen. Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.
August 06, 1995
DAVID HOROWITZ

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.​

You can bet that the crowd in Hanoi were shaking their heads in bewilderment when Kerry first went to Congress. Kerry not becoming president in 2004 was the one and only time he disappointed them. Kerry did give the old Commies a good laugh when they saw the traitor they met in Paris in 1971 go on to become secretary of state.

 

[rightwinger]

John Kerry is a true American Patriot. He fought for his country and then fought to save the lives of his fellow soldiers by getting us out of an unjust war

To rightwinger: Say it often enough and you might believe it.

In an interview published in the Wall Street Journal that will hardly be noticed outside conservative circles, the North Vietnam general who received the unconditional surrender of South Vietnam on April 30, 1975, has confirmed every argument made by the right about the war in Vietnam: It was a war to stop an aggression from the North, not to suppress a revolution in the South; it was a war that America could have won--by cutting off the Ho Chi Minh Trail through which North Vietnam was invading the South; it was a war that the left and its "anti-war" movement caused America to lose by sapping its will to fight.​

Incidentally, to be fair, John Kerry was not famous when he was betraying the country. He was a US Senator in 1995 when General Bui Tin was interviewed; so he had every reason to protect Kerry:

Young asked if the anti-war movement was important to Hanoi's victory. General Bui answered: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Atty. Gen. Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.
August 06, 1995
DAVID HOROWITZ

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.​

You can bet that the crowd in Hanoi were shaking their heads in bewilderment when Kerry first went to Congress. Kerry not becoming president in 2004 was the one and only time he disappointed them. Kerry did give the old Commies a good laugh when they saw the traitor they met in Paris in 1971 go on to become secretary of state.

Still crazy after all these years

Dag gum it....If we only had 250,000 more soldiers we could have won that war. Damn liberals lost their nerve

We went through that escallation strategy in Vietnam for eight years.....Just give us a few more soldiers and we can win this war by Christmas. LBJ fell for it every time. John Kerry, Jane Fonda and the all the War Protesters had it right. It was a bad war we had no business being in. The war hawks were lying to us, there was no coherent strategy to win

TheWar Protestrs were the true American Patriots.....The War Hawks were traitors

 

[Flanders]

Dag gum it....If we only had 250,000 more soldiers we could have won that war. Damn liberals lost their nerve

To rightwinger: The Vietnam War would have ended in less than two years had America not been fighting another Peace Without Victory war.

We went through that escallation strategy in Vietnam for eight years.....Just give us a few more soldiers and we can win this war by Christmas. LBJ fell for it every time.

To rightwinger: You have the wrong president and the wrong war:

President Clinton lied about many things and has reneged on many promises he made to us. For example, there was his ``truthful'' statement made prior to his 1992 election that he never had an affair with Gennifer Flowers, his ``promise'' that our troops in Bosnia would be home by Christmas of 1996, his ``promise'' that the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, would be moved to Jerusalem. Add to that Whitewater, Travelgate and Filegate. How about renting out rooms in the White House to the highest bidder and using the money for his own campaign?

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly
February 6, 1998

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly​

NOTE: Bosnia was a NATO operation, but Clinton used the U.S. military as United Nations peacekeepers punishing anyone refusing to serve:

Micheal New refused to serve the United Nations. I doubt if he could buy a pardon for any price.

Feb. 6, 1996 note: Michael New has been dishonorably discharged in a trial that lasted about 15 minutes. An appeal is planned.

Michael New: A Patriot Court Martialed for Obeying His Oath of Duty

The Court Martial of Michael New

Hitler Was Not The Only Nazi | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

To rightwinger: Really!

Jane Fonda’s political philosophy:

I, a Socialist, think we should strive toward a Socialist society, all the way to Communism.

"If you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that one day we would become Communist." (speaking to students at the University of Michigan in 1970)​

Jane Fonda - Biography - IMDb​

It was a bad war we had no business being in.

To rightwinger: Fighting Communism is always a bad war to Democrats. You, —— not “we” —— have no business fighting against Communist expansion.

The war hawks were lying to us, there was no coherent strategy to win

To rightwinger: Victory is never the strategy in a Peace Without Victory war.

In war there is no substitute for victory. Douglas MacArthur​

TheWar Protestrs were the true American Patriots.....The War Hawks were traitors

To rightwinger: Traitors betray their country by definition as the anti-war demonstrations proved. Protesting to defend a political philosophy a vast majority of Americans rejected, and still reject, is pure doublespeak that boggles the mind —— not to mention illogical.

 

[rightwinger]

Dag gum it....If we only had 250,000 more soldiers we could have won that war. Damn liberals lost their nerve

To rightwinger: The Vietnam War would have ended in less than two years had America not been fighting another Peace Without Victory war.

We went through that escallation strategy in Vietnam for eight years.....Just give us a few more soldiers and we can win this war by Christmas. LBJ fell for it every time.

To rightwinger: You have the wrong president and the wrong war:

President Clinton lied about many things and has reneged on many promises he made to us. For example, there was his ``truthful'' statement made prior to his 1992 election that he never had an affair with Gennifer Flowers, his ``promise'' that our troops in Bosnia would be home by Christmas of 1996, his ``promise'' that the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, would be moved to Jerusalem. Add to that Whitewater, Travelgate and Filegate. How about renting out rooms in the White House to the highest bidder and using the money for his own campaign?

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly
February 6, 1998

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly​

NOTE: Bosnia was a NATO operation, but Clinton used the U.S. military as United Nations peacekeepers punishing anyone refusing to serve:

Micheal New refused to serve the United Nations. I doubt if he could buy a pardon for any price.

Feb. 6, 1996 note: Michael New has been dishonorably discharged in a trial that lasted about 15 minutes. An appeal is planned.

Michael New: A Patriot Court Martialed for Obeying His Oath of Duty

The Court Martial of Michael New

Hitler Was Not The Only Nazi | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

To rightwinger: Really!

Jane Fonda’s political philosophy:

I, a Socialist, think we should strive toward a Socialist society, all the way to Communism.

"If you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that one day we would become Communist." (speaking to students at the University of Michigan in 1970)​

Jane Fonda - Biography - IMDb​

It was a bad war we had no business being in.

To rightwinger: Fighting Communism is always a bad war to Democrats. You, —— not “we” —— have no business fighting against Communist expansion.

The war hawks were lying to us, there was no coherent strategy to win

To rightwinger: Victory is never the strategy in a Peace Without Victory war.

In war there is no substitute for victory. Douglas MacArthur​

TheWar Protestrs were the true American Patriots.....The War Hawks were traitors

To rightwinger: Traitors betray their country by definition as the anti-war demonstrations proved. Protesting to defend a political philosophy a vast majority of Americans rejected, and still reject, is pure doublespeak that boggles the mind —— not to mention illogical.

The war hawks double down on failure

Their strategy of escalating US involvement in Vietnam with promises of "Victory by Christmas" led us to almost 60,000 dead Americans for no reason. Their reasons for war were wrong, their lies about our chances of victory were wrong, their false patriotism was wrong

History has shown the Vietnam protesters were correct in their assessment of the situation in Vietnam.

Yes Jane Fonda was right and Bob Hope was wrong

 

[Auld Phart]

Dag gum it....If we only had 250,000 more soldiers we could have won that war. Damn liberals lost their nerve

To rightwinger: The Vietnam War would have ended in less than two years had America not been fighting another Peace Without Victory war.

We went through that escallation strategy in Vietnam for eight years.....Just give us a few more soldiers and we can win this war by Christmas. LBJ fell for it every time.

To rightwinger: You have the wrong president and the wrong war:

President Clinton lied about many things and has reneged on many promises he made to us. For example, there was his ``truthful'' statement made prior to his 1992 election that he never had an affair with Gennifer Flowers, his ``promise'' that our troops in Bosnia would be home by Christmas of 1996, his ``promise'' that the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, would be moved to Jerusalem. Add to that Whitewater, Travelgate and Filegate. How about renting out rooms in the White House to the highest bidder and using the money for his own campaign?

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly
February 6, 1998

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly​

NOTE: Bosnia was a NATO operation, but Clinton used the U.S. military as United Nations peacekeepers punishing anyone refusing to serve:

Micheal New refused to serve the United Nations. I doubt if he could buy a pardon for any price.

Feb. 6, 1996 note: Michael New has been dishonorably discharged in a trial that lasted about 15 minutes. An appeal is planned.

Michael New: A Patriot Court Martialed for Obeying His Oath of Duty

The Court Martial of Michael New

Hitler Was Not The Only Nazi | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

To rightwinger: Really!

Jane Fonda’s political philosophy:

I, a Socialist, think we should strive toward a Socialist society, all the way to Communism.

"If you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that one day we would become Communist." (speaking to students at the University of Michigan in 1970)​

Jane Fonda - Biography - IMDb​

It was a bad war we had no business being in.

To rightwinger: Fighting Communism is always a bad war to Democrats. You, —— not “we” —— have no business fighting against Communist expansion.

The war hawks were lying to us, there was no coherent strategy to win

To rightwinger: Victory is never the strategy in a Peace Without Victory war.

In war there is no substitute for victory. Douglas MacArthur​

TheWar Protestrs were the true American Patriots.....The War Hawks were traitors

To rightwinger: Traitors betray their country by definition as the anti-war demonstrations proved. Protesting to defend a political philosophy a vast majority of Americans rejected, and still reject, is pure doublespeak that boggles the mind —— not to mention illogical.

The war hawks double down on failure

Their strategy of escalating US involvement in Vietnam with promises of "Victory by Christmas" led us to almost 60,000 dead Americans for no reason. Their reasons for war were wrong, their lies about our chances of victory were wrong, their false patriotism was wrong

History has shown the Vietnam protesters were correct in their assessment of the situation in Vietnam. Yes Jane Fonda was right and Bob Hope was wrong

You do know that 35,000+ died in Nam under Johnson, and only 23,000+ died under Nixon, right?

Vietnam War Casualties

 

[rightwinger]

Dag gum it....If we only had 250,000 more soldiers we could have won that war. Damn liberals lost their nerve

To rightwinger: The Vietnam War would have ended in less than two years had America not been fighting another Peace Without Victory war.

We went through that escallation strategy in Vietnam for eight years.....Just give us a few more soldiers and we can win this war by Christmas. LBJ fell for it every time.

To rightwinger: You have the wrong president and the wrong war:

President Clinton lied about many things and has reneged on many promises he made to us. For example, there was his ``truthful'' statement made prior to his 1992 election that he never had an affair with Gennifer Flowers, his ``promise'' that our troops in Bosnia would be home by Christmas of 1996, his ``promise'' that the United States Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, would be moved to Jerusalem. Add to that Whitewater, Travelgate and Filegate. How about renting out rooms in the White House to the highest bidder and using the money for his own campaign?

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly
February 6, 1998

Clinton Has Lied, Broken Promises Repeatedly​

NOTE: Bosnia was a NATO operation, but Clinton used the U.S. military as United Nations peacekeepers punishing anyone refusing to serve:

Micheal New refused to serve the United Nations. I doubt if he could buy a pardon for any price.

Feb. 6, 1996 note: Michael New has been dishonorably discharged in a trial that lasted about 15 minutes. An appeal is planned.

Michael New: A Patriot Court Martialed for Obeying His Oath of Duty

The Court Martial of Michael New

Hitler Was Not The Only Nazi | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

To rightwinger: Really!

Jane Fonda’s political philosophy:

I, a Socialist, think we should strive toward a Socialist society, all the way to Communism.

"If you understood what Communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that one day we would become Communist." (speaking to students at the University of Michigan in 1970)​

Jane Fonda - Biography - IMDb​

It was a bad war we had no business being in.

To rightwinger: Fighting Communism is always a bad war to Democrats. You, —— not “we” —— have no business fighting against Communist expansion.

The war hawks were lying to us, there was no coherent strategy to win

To rightwinger: Victory is never the strategy in a Peace Without Victory war.

In war there is no substitute for victory. Douglas MacArthur​

TheWar Protestrs were the true American Patriots.....The War Hawks were traitors

To rightwinger: Traitors betray their country by definition as the anti-war demonstrations proved. Protesting to defend a political philosophy a vast majority of Americans rejected, and still reject, is pure doublespeak that boggles the mind —— not to mention illogical.

The war hawks double down on failure

Their strategy of escalating US involvement in Vietnam with promises of "Victory by Christmas" led us to almost 60,000 dead Americans for no reason. Their reasons for war were wrong, their lies about our chances of victory were wrong, their false patriotism was wrong

History has shown the Vietnam protesters were correct in their assessment of the situation in Vietnam. Yes Jane Fonda was right and Bob Hope was wrong

You do know that 35,000+ died in Nam under Johnson, and only 23,000+ died under Nixon, right?

Vietnam War Casualties

What difference does it make? Both bought into the "victory is just around the corner" lies from the war hawks. I think Nixon was less culpable because he was already deeply into the war and it is difficult to just pull out

Either way, it was the protesters who eventually convinced that American people......enough of this shit, get us out

They are the real American Patriots...not those who wrapped themselves in the flag while calling for more troops

 

[Flanders]

The war hawks double down on failure

Their strategy of escalating US involvement in Vietnam with promises of "Victory by Christmas" led us to almost 60,000 dead Americans for no reason. Their reasons for war were wrong, their lies about our chances of victory were wrong, their false patriotism was wrong

History has shown the Vietnam protesters were correct in their assessment of the situation in Vietnam.

Yes Jane Fonda was right and Bob Hope was wrong

What difference does it make? Both bought into the "victory is just around the corner" lies from the war hawks. I think Nixon was less culpable because he was already deeply into the war and it is difficult to just pull out

Either way, it was the protesters who eventually convinced that American people......enough of this shit, get us out

They are the real American Patriots...not those who wrapped themselves in the flag while calling for more troops

To rightwinger: Keep trying, you have a long way to go.

To rightwinger: Say it often enough and you might believe it.

 

[rightwinger]

The war hawks double down on failure

Their strategy of escalating US involvement in Vietnam with promises of "Victory by Christmas" led us to almost 60,000 dead Americans for no reason. Their reasons for war were wrong, their lies about our chances of victory were wrong, their false patriotism was wrong

History has shown the Vietnam protesters were correct in their assessment of the situation in Vietnam.

Yes Jane Fonda was right and Bob Hope was wrong

What difference does it make? Both bought into the "victory is just around the corner" lies from the war hawks. I think Nixon was less culpable because he was already deeply into the war and it is difficult to just pull out

Either way, it was the protesters who eventually convinced that American people......enough of this shit, get us out

They are the real American Patriots...not those who wrapped themselves in the flag while calling for more troops

To rightwinger: Keep trying, you have a long way to go.

To rightwinger: Say it often enough and you might believe it.

Wars over, we lost, Vietnam is now communist

Cost us 60,000 lives for nothing

 

[Flanders]

Wars over, we lost,

To rightwinger: Say it the right way: American Communists and traitors won.

Vietnam is now communist

To rightwinger: I thought the war against Communism was over when the Soviet Union imploded! I guess Hanoi did not get the memo.

Cost us 60,000 lives for nothing

To rightwinger: Cut the crap. People like you are secretly pleased when Americans die fighting against Communism.

And it would have been a slight fraction of that number had traitors like Jane Fonda and John Kerry not prolonged the war:

Young asked if the anti-war movement was important to Hanoi's victory. General Bui answered: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Atty. Gen. Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.
August 06, 1995
DAVID HOROWITZ

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.​

This thread is for anybody who is interested in another debate about anti-Vietnam War demonstrations:

Retelling An Old Lie | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

 

[rightwinger]

Wars over, we lost,

To rightwinger: Say it the right way: American Communists and traitors won.

Vietnam is now communist

To rightwinger: I thought the war against Communism was over when the Soviet Union imploded! I guess Hanoi did not get the memo.

Cost us 60,000 lives for nothing

To rightwinger: Cut the crap. People like you are secretly pleased when Americans die fighting against Communism.

And it would have been a slight fraction of that number had traitors like Jane Fonda and John Kerry not prolonged the war:

Young asked if the anti-war movement was important to Hanoi's victory. General Bui answered: "It was essential to our strategy. Support for the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American anti-war movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda and former Atty. Gen. Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses."

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.
August 06, 1995
DAVID HOROWITZ

A Primer on Why We Lost Vietnam : A Vietnamese general confirms the anti-war movement's role in the U.S. defeat.​

This thread is for anybody who is interested in another debate about anti-Vietnam War demonstrations:

Retelling An Old Lie | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum​

Myth

Several variants of this rumor appeared in 2004. In these, Giap is supposed to have credited either the American anti-war movement in general, or John Kerry's organization (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) in particular, for persuading the Communist leaders to change their minds and not give up on the war. Giap is sometimes said to have made this statement in How We Won the War, sometimes in an unnamed 1985 memoir. All versions of the rumor are false. Neither in How We Won the War, nor in any other book (the 1985 memoir is entirely imaginary), has Giap mentioned Kerry or Vietnam Veterans Against the War, or said that the Communist leaders had ever considered giving up on the war.
Read more at snopes.com: General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

 

[Flanders]

Several variants of this rumor appeared in 2004. In these, Giap is supposed to have credited either the American anti-war movement in general, or John Kerry's organization (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) in particular, for persuading the Communist leaders to change their minds and not give up on the war. Giap is sometimes said to have made this statement in How We Won the War, sometimes in an unnamed 1985 memoir. All versions of the rumor are false. Neither in How We Won the War, nor in any other book (the 1985 memoir is entirely imaginary), has Giap mentioned Kerry or Vietnam Veterans Against the War, or said that the Communist leaders had ever considered giving up on the war.
Read more at snopes.com: General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

To rightwinger: Your lack of reading comprehension skills is showing. Your guy Vu Nguyen Giap was trotted out during Kerry’s presidential campaign. I cited General Bui Tin who never mentioned John Kerry either.

Incidentally, to be fair, John Kerry was not famous when he was betraying the country. He was a US Senator in 1995 when General Bui Tin was interviewed; so he had every reason to protect Kerry:

Your doublespeak and misdirection tires me. Go over my comments to counter anything else you might say:

​

 

[rightwinger]

Several variants of this rumor appeared in 2004. In these, Giap is supposed to have credited either the American anti-war movement in general, or John Kerry's organization (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) in particular, for persuading the Communist leaders to change their minds and not give up on the war. Giap is sometimes said to have made this statement in How We Won the War, sometimes in an unnamed 1985 memoir. All versions of the rumor are false. Neither in How We Won the War, nor in any other book (the 1985 memoir is entirely imaginary), has Giap mentioned Kerry or Vietnam Veterans Against the War, or said that the Communist leaders had ever considered giving up on the war.
Read more at snopes.com: General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

To rightwinger: Your lack of reading comprehension skills is showing. Your guy Vu Nguyen Giap was trotted out during Kerry’s presidential campaign. I cited General Bui Tin who never mentioned John Kerry either.

Incidentally, to be fair, John Kerry was not famous when he was betraying the country. He was a US Senator in 1995 when General Bui Tin was interviewed; so he had every reason to protect Kerry:

Your doublespeak and misdirection tires me. Go over my comments to counter anything else you might say:

​

The tactics of conservatives to create fiction to smear John Kerry is well known. The swiftboating and the bogus claims of Ben Giap are two glaring examples of those lies

Then you trot out the same exact claim and change the Generals name and expect us to believe you this time?

You are a liar my friend

 

[9thIDdoc]

The swiftboat sailors were actually honorable enough to serve their country and do the duty Kerry requested and then ran away from. He was well proven to be a liar and coward and before even getting to his treason and corruption.

 

[rightwinger]

Kerry was an American Patriot both for what he did during the war and what he did trying to end it

 

[9thIDdoc]

If you like Kerry you woulda loved Benadict Arnold.

 

[rightwinger]

Kerry fought to get us out of an unnecessary and unjust war

It was the John Kerrys and Jane Fondas that were Patriots

Not the Bob Hopes

 

[9thIDdoc]

If you and them had been around in the '40s we would likely be speaking German. Patriots? For any country except this one.

 

[rightwinger]

If you and them had been around in the '40s we would likely be speaking German. Patriots? For any country except this one.

We were bright enough to realize WWII was a necessary war

Unfortunately, by the time Vietnam and Iraq came around, we were too infatuated with the war hawks to listen to common sense

 

[Flanders]

If you and them had been around in the '40s we would likely be speaking German. Patriots? For any country except this one.

To 9thIDoc: Russian more than likely. Arabic or Chinese today.

 

[Flanders]

Now Putin wants a piece of him!

Kerry: Russia Asked for US Military Talks on Syria
Wednesday, 16 Sep 2015 01:26 P

Kerry: Russia Asked for US Military Talks on Syria​