Saturday

[eagle1462010]

If you want Saturday schooling...........use it for those needing remedial training........who are falling behind and not the kids who are doing just fine............Would be motivation to excel during the week.

I'm gonna study cause I don't want to get stuck in school on Saturday..............

Why not give the kids with more evident potential the chance to learn more and faster? Education is an opportunity, not a punishment.

Weekend school would be a punishment to them.........................

Only if they are taught - by irresponsible adults - to view education as a punishment.

Negative reinforcement versus Positive reinforcement argument.......

Do shitty in school face negative reinforcement.........When kids acted up in school in my time we got to see the assistant principle......had a special paddle with holes in it........After getting our butts whooped we got to sign it...............

Other negative reinforcement remedial training after normal school hours.........was another punishment for acting up.......

My kids act up or slack...............they got the belt..............some believe in that and some NOT SO MUCH.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

I never said education as a whole is punishment. I'm highly educated. I said Saturday would be an incentive to do well Monday through Friday.

In that sense, doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. Negative reinforcement, punishment..........whatever you want to call it. Others might want to call it tough love.

If your kids are doing poorly in school and you see this as a parent at home.........What are you going to do.........Your gonna do things like that CELL PHONE IS GONE until you improve your grades............No......your not going to play with your friends til I see your homework is done.........And assist them at doing so................That is negative reinforcement...........Positive reinforcement..which I used worked on 2 of my kids...........They got money for A's and B's in school..............on the other......it was negative reinforcement because the positive reinforcement wasn't working.............

Your problem is that you jump to conclusions and attack our opinions when we don't agree..............I don't agree with Saturday schooling............it's that simple..........but UNDER THE SCENARIO YOU PROPOSED.....I said use it for those needing the help.................And it certainly wasn't in agreement with it.

 

[eagle1462010]

........and we have working laws of 40 hours a week........why wouldn't we apply the same to the kids................

Millions and millions and millions of Americans work a hell of a lot more than 40 hours a week, and going to school is not employment.

Yeah..........I've worked my share of 7 ......12s.............but I sure didn't want my kids to lose their youth in that kinda situation...............I repeat that it is excessive.

Doing your best to improve yourself is NOT “losing your youth.” That’s lazy slack-ass talk.

Another jump to conclusion straw man. I said they should be able to ENJOY their youth because the rat race will come soon enough........I also recommended more Trade schooling.

 

[eagle1462010]

Quality and not quantity ..........

Assert oneself versus not asserting oneself may be an issue.

The kids get to the rat race soon enough.......let them enjoy the simple life a bit.

And when stats show American kids lagging behind other nations?

And when the kids get to the rat race and are less well prepared to win it?

The kids must apply themselves more..............stop common core BS............and teach them more skills.........trades....

Some believe both parents having to work is more of a problem than the system...........because the parents are too tired to help them after school...............

Common Core went away during the Obama administration. Please do try to keep up.

Forgot.......wasn't aware........oh well..............Guess I need education............My kids have been out of school for a long time.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Quality and not quantity ..........

Assert oneself versus not asserting oneself may be an issue.

The kids get to the rat race soon enough.......let them enjoy the simple life a bit.

And when stats show American kids lagging behind other nations?

And when the kids get to the rat race and are less well prepared to win it?

The kids must apply themselves more..............stop common core BS............and teach them more skills.........trades....

Some believe both parents having to work is more of a problem than the system...........because the parents are too tired to help them after school...............

Common Core went away during the Obama administration. Please do try to keep up.

Forgot.......wasn't aware........oh well..............Guess I need education............My kids have been out of school for a long time.

Thanks for admitting that! Most people who deride education is because their own personal experience was obviously filled with failure. They do not keep current on the world of education and prefer to jump on teachers when we tell them that their misconceptions about education are not true.

 

[Unkotare]

If you want Saturday schooling...........use it for those needing remedial training........who are falling behind and not the kids who are doing just fine............Would be motivation to excel during the week.

I'm gonna study cause I don't want to get stuck in school on Saturday..............

Why not give the kids with more evident potential the chance to learn more and faster? Education is an opportunity, not a punishment.

Not all kids have that evident potential. What you were advocating sounded like making ALL kids spend all their time in school.

Almost all kids have more potential than they are given credit for.

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

Why not give the kids with more evident potential the chance to learn more and faster? Education is an opportunity, not a punishment.

Weekend school would be a punishment to them.........................

Only if they are taught - by irresponsible adults - to view education as a punishment.

Negative reinforcement versus Positive reinforcement argument.......

Do shitty in school face negative reinforcement.........When kids acted up in school in my time we got to see the assistant principle......had a special paddle with holes in it........After getting our butts whooped we got to sign it...............

Other negative reinforcement remedial training after normal school hours.........was another punishment for acting up.......

My kids act up or slack...............they got the belt..............some believe in that and some NOT SO MUCH.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

 

[eagle1462010]

If you want Saturday schooling...........use it for those needing remedial training........who are falling behind and not the kids who are doing just fine............Would be motivation to excel during the week.

I'm gonna study cause I don't want to get stuck in school on Saturday..............

Why not give the kids with more evident potential the chance to learn more and faster? Education is an opportunity, not a punishment.

Not all kids have that evident potential. What you were advocating sounded like making ALL kids spend all their time in school.

Almost all kids have more potential than they are given credit for.

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

Weekend school would be a punishment to them.........................

Only if they are taught - by irresponsible adults - to view education as a punishment.

Negative reinforcement versus Positive reinforcement argument.......

Do shitty in school face negative reinforcement.........When kids acted up in school in my time we got to see the assistant principle......had a special paddle with holes in it........After getting our butts whooped we got to sign it...............

Other negative reinforcement remedial training after normal school hours.........was another punishment for acting up.......

My kids act up or slack...............they got the belt..............some believe in that and some NOT SO MUCH.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

Again you are playing the straw man....................And again I disagree with Saturday schooling...........

 

[Unkotare]

My kid has been rather lucky. His teachers are quite dedicated. We are at the school, as are they, sometimes until 10-11 at night. We are there on Saturdays. There are meetings on Sunday. There are competitions. Maybe we're just lucky.

Either way, robotics season is officially over and it is wind down time. Now it is time to gear up for road trip time. That whole family thang. So, no additional school crap. Thanks.

Why is school “crap” to you?

Because we have 3 more weeks to go including weekends. I kid you not between September until May we are nonstop. There are times that I don't even get home until midnight even if he gets home at 8:30 pm. I may have to work on the weekend and he is traveling to a competition or has to build or has to attend a function.

I miss my kid. I have two more years and then he goes to college.

It's called necessary down time, Unkotare. It's the end of the year. I haven't met a teacher in the last 3 weeks that is not ready for the year to end. That's in four counties. I haven't met a kid that wasn't ready for it to end either.

School crap, work crap and house crap.

So you hate life in general? What a ray of sunshine.

I'll beat thee, but I would infect my hands.

A shame.

 

[Unkotare]

Why not give the kids with more evident potential the chance to learn more and faster? Education is an opportunity, not a punishment.

Not all kids have that evident potential. What you were advocating sounded like making ALL kids spend all their time in school.

Almost all kids have more potential than they are given credit for.

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

Only if they are taught - by irresponsible adults - to view education as a punishment.

Negative reinforcement versus Positive reinforcement argument.......

Do shitty in school face negative reinforcement.........When kids acted up in school in my time we got to see the assistant principle......had a special paddle with holes in it........After getting our butts whooped we got to sign it...............

Other negative reinforcement remedial training after normal school hours.........was another punishment for acting up.......

My kids act up or slack...............they got the belt..............some believe in that and some NOT SO MUCH.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

Again you are playing the straw man....................And again I disagree with Saturday schooling...........

No straw man, just reading your own words. Are you or are you not proposing education as a punishment in your own scenario?

 

[eagle1462010]

Not all kids have that evident potential. What you were advocating sounded like making ALL kids spend all their time in school.

Almost all kids have more potential than they are given credit for.

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

Negative reinforcement versus Positive reinforcement argument.......

Do shitty in school face negative reinforcement.........When kids acted up in school in my time we got to see the assistant principle......had a special paddle with holes in it........After getting our butts whooped we got to sign it...............

Other negative reinforcement remedial training after normal school hours.........was another punishment for acting up.......

My kids act up or slack...............they got the belt..............some believe in that and some NOT SO MUCH.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

Again you are playing the straw man....................And again I disagree with Saturday schooling...........

No straw man, just reading your own words. Are you or are you not proposing education as a punishment in your own scenario?

I stated an opinion with your proposal on Saturdays............and said what I said..............those needing the extra would be motivated to do better if they didn't want to end up in school on Saturday..........You Call it Punishment.............so be it..............I'll call it TOUGH LOVE............

Do you have kids of your own...........and if they do bad in school do you ground them or take their cell phones............or if you are a parent are you lucky enough that positive reinforcements work on all of them..................I was batting 66% with that.

 

[Unkotare]

All this "Oh, they can't sleep until 3 pm then pick toads out of the ol' crick behind Aunty Maude's cabin" bullshit is just emotive excuse-making. Studying more will better serve that young person than kicking cans and collecting ticks.

 

[Unkotare]

Almost all kids have more potential than they are given credit for.

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

If you think of education as a punishment, YOU are part of the problem.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

Again you are playing the straw man....................And again I disagree with Saturday schooling...........

No straw man, just reading your own words. Are you or are you not proposing education as a punishment in your own scenario?

I stated an opinion with your proposal on Saturdays............and said what I said..............those needing the extra would be motivated to do better if they didn't want to end up in school on Saturday..........You Call it Punishment.............so be it..............I'll call it TOUGH LOVE................

Why do you agree with me and then cry foul? You are portraying education as punishment in your own scenario.

 

[OldLady]

All this "Oh, they can't sleep until 3 pm then pick toads out of the ol' crick behind Aunty Maude's cabin" bullshit is just emotive excuse-making. Studying more will better serve that young person than kicking cans and collecting ticks.

I'm nominating you for the most miserable human being on USMB.
I feel for your students. I really do.

 

[eagle1462010]

Agreed. I don't agree that locking them up in school for their whole childhood will bring that out.
Climbing trees. Playing fetch with the dog and Mother May I with the kids next door. Kick the can. Walking to the corner store for a sack of candy. Riding your bike. Swimming. Learning to golf. Going to the amusement park for the afternoon. Having Gram teach you how to make cookies. Finding a snapping turtle and bringing it home 'til your parents find out. Climbing more trees. Stealing the black cherries from the neighbor's tree down the street. Visiting relatives in another state.
Want me to go on and on? There is more to life. Just improve the quality of education we have going on now and let our kids have a childhood. Working like slaves for the Man is coming soon enough for them.

...doing poorly and having to come in for extra education on Saturday would possibly make them do better during the week. ......

Again, you are portraying education as a punishment. You are part of the problem.

Again you are playing the straw man....................And again I disagree with Saturday schooling...........

No straw man, just reading your own words. Are you or are you not proposing education as a punishment in your own scenario?

I stated an opinion with your proposal on Saturdays............and said what I said..............those needing the extra would be motivated to do better if they didn't want to end up in school on Saturday..........You Call it Punishment.............so be it..............I'll call it TOUGH LOVE................

Why do you agree with me and then cry foul? You are portraying education as punishment in your own scenario.

I said IF............let me REPEAT......IF ............one more time...........IF..........Saturday was a school day...........YOUR SCENARIO....then said use it for those who need the extra help...............aka those FAILING................then I said they may do better during the week because they don't want to go to school on Saturday................

I called it Negative Reinforcement..............You called it PUNISHMENT............then you went on to say I have a problem........

Well Houston we have a problem.........We don't agree with school on Saturday.

 

[Unkotare]

All this "Oh, they can't sleep until 3 pm then pick toads out of the ol' crick behind Aunty Maude's cabin" bullshit is just emotive excuse-making. Studying more will better serve that young person than kicking cans and collecting ticks.

I'm nominating you for the most miserable human being on USMB.
I feel for your students. I really do.

 

[Unkotare]

...

I called it Negative Reinforcement..................

Which means you think it is negative.

 

[OldLady]

I hope everyone here realizes the real solution to the fact that American students don't "stack up" with students in other countries.
It's because Americans don't value education the way some other cultures do. I can't tell you how many times I've heard parents bitching about their kids' school, their teachers, the administration's decision on this or that....IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. They don't give a shit. How much respect is a kid going to have for school or their teachers when the parents are home saying they're a bunch of dumb fucks?

A lot of people on USMB who go around bad mouthing schools (with absolutely no knowledge of what is actually going on except a hair on fire article from some Alt-Right site) are making the problem of not so great education all that much worse.
In countries where education is valued and respected, kids value and respect their education (well, most do--there are kids in every crowd, aren't there?). It only makes sense.

There is one very simple, free thing everyone can do to improve education in this country. Do your bitching about it OUTSIDE the kids' earshot and show kids you respect learning. It's the only way.

 

[rightwinger]

Posting from inside a school right now, I'm wondering why we don't have school on Saturdays in America (generally speaking) as they do in some other countries. So many people complain about how American students stack up, so why not extend the school day and the school week?

Because we are cheap

We pay for 180 school days a year and won’t cough up to pay for more

 

[eagle1462010]

School days: How the U.S. compares with other countries

Among 33 mostly developed nations, annual “total intended instructional time” averaged 790 hours for primary students (ranging from 470 hours in Russia to 1,007 hours in Chile) according to data compiled by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. For the international equivalent of U.S. middle-schoolers, average annual required hours increased to 925 (ranging from 741 hours in Sweden to 1,167 hours in Mexico). The OECD did not have data for high schoolers.

We used data from the Education Commission of the States, supplemented by examination of relevant rules and statutes and inquiries to individual states, to estimate average instructional-time minimums in the U.S. The numbers we came up with are 943 hours for 1st-graders, 1,016 hours for 7th-graders and 1,025 hours for 11th-graders. (For comparison, a 180-day calendar of 6-hour days would provide 1,080 instructional hours.)

Both sets of numbers, though, mask considerable variation and contain many caveats. Countries may define “instructional time” differently and set their own rules on when, and for how many years, students can attend primary and secondary school. And the OECD data don’t include time spent with tutors, in “cram schools” or in other supplemental classes, which are very common in some countries.

 

[eagle1462010]

Questions on the methodology of assessment................

The PISA OECD test are standardized tests...........used to make the reference on how Nations score against each other to determine where Nations fair against each other.

1. Who decides the questions?
2. Are nations teaching the test?
3. How are those taking the tests chosen in each country?
4. Is this test comparable to Common Core testing? aka Teaching the test.

International PISA tests show how evidence-based policy can go wrong

 

[eagle1462010]

Does the United States spend more per student than most countries?

The most recent OECD study -- from 2014 using 2011 data -- shows that the United States spends $12,731 per student on secondary education. Four countries -- Austria, Luxembourg, Norway and Switzerland -- spend more. Those same countries are also the only ones that spend more than the United States per student on primary schools.


We spend more per pupil than most countries in the world. We are above average on the number of hours kids spend in school in the OECD data banks.
We score less than many countries on the PISA test. Just factors that I looked into..............

Another factor is we went to 6 day a week schooling.............is INCREASED COST.............If we used a daily ratio on increased spending the costs for our schools would go up by a factor of 16%