Quality of Life

[FA_Q2]

I remain torn, but leaning toward yes. I would do the same.

In his shoes, at his age with his life? I think I would have at least tried to stay for the birth, and that may have given me the desire to stay put. But at my age, in my situation? it is more likely I would let go.

I will answer with ONE caveat – we truly do not know until we are actually there and forced to make such decisions.

With that disclaimer I say that no, I would not choose to die in that manner. I am fairly certain that my death will be pretty ugly mostly because I am a stubborn SOB who really likes living – no matter what that entails. The reaper is going to have to pry my soul kicking and screaming from my body before I ‘let go’ of anything but that is just me I am totally in agreement with George Carlin on this one:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hnJyq3d_cE]George Carlin - Don't Pull the Plug on Me - YouTube[/ame]

He did not kill himself. He refused heroic measures.

Distinction without a difference. That is like stating jumping off a cliff without pulling your chute is not suicide – it’s just refusing to use a parachute….

He was NOT weak. He was very brave to leave this life after making such a decision. You forget that he was unable to move, and was reliant on a machine to keep him alive.

Nor was he ‘brave.’ I find that claim rather insane. It is not brave to kill yourself. Don’t get me wrong – it is not weak either. It is simply a personal decision that is his to make. I make no moral judgment of his decision as it is NOT mine to make in that situation but I certainly am not going to call him brave. Brave is saving an infant from a burning car. Brave is not ending your own life.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Paralyzed Indiana Man Chooses to End Life Support

My heart breaks for his family.

According to his sister Jenny Schultz, “We just asked him, ‘Do you want this?’ And he shook his head emphatically no.” Doctors repeatedly asked him the same question and were given the same response. So they removed his breathing tube and he died five hours later.

Bowers, just married in August, leaves behind his pregnant wife Abbey, stepson Greg Shively, and "Baby Bowers." The Associated Press reports that he had previously spoken with his wife about his desire to avoid life in a wheelchair should something ever happen.

And while his sister acknowledges that others might disagree with his decision, she knows it's what he wanted. "No outcome was ever going to be the one that we really want," she said. "But I felt that he did it on his terms in the end."

I've always held the belief that there are far worse results from sickness and trauma than death.

If ever I'm in circumstances where I can't wipe my own ass, someone... anyone... please pull the plug.

 

[BDBoop]

Paralyzed Indiana Man Chooses to End Life Support

My heart breaks for his family.

According to his sister Jenny Schultz, “We just asked him, ‘Do you want this?’ And he shook his head emphatically no.” Doctors repeatedly asked him the same question and were given the same response. So they removed his breathing tube and he died five hours later.

Bowers, just married in August, leaves behind his pregnant wife Abbey, stepson Greg Shively, and "Baby Bowers." The Associated Press reports that he had previously spoken with his wife about his desire to avoid life in a wheelchair should something ever happen.

And while his sister acknowledges that others might disagree with his decision, she knows it's what he wanted. "No outcome was ever going to be the one that we really want," she said. "But I felt that he did it on his terms in the end."

I've always held the belief that there are far worse results from sickness and trauma than death.

If ever I'm in circumstances where I can't wipe my own ass, someone... anyone... please pull the plug.

Exactly. But you need to make sure those who love you, know that.

My mom spent her final years locked in the cage of her mind. The whole family gathered to spend time with her when she could still sit up, make some eye contact, etc. she was enjoying herself immensely. Not much talking, but she smiled a LOT that day.

And then her caregiver took her in the other room to change her. She looked really sad when she came out. I honestly feared she'd been treated badly in the other room.

The next time we went home to see her, I asked her other caregiver about it. She said oh, that's just your mom. She's very modest. When she could still use the toilet, I would hold her hand for balance. I'd be trying to pull down her pants with my free hand while she used hers to try and pull them back up.

I don't want to be in that situation. Ever.

 

[Esmeralda]

Paralyzed Indiana Man Chooses to End Life Support

My heart breaks for his family.

According to his sister Jenny Schultz, “We just asked him, ‘Do you want this?’ And he shook his head emphatically no.” Doctors repeatedly asked him the same question and were given the same response. So they removed his breathing tube and he died five hours later.

Bowers, just married in August, leaves behind his pregnant wife Abbey, stepson Greg Shively, and "Baby Bowers." The Associated Press reports that he had previously spoken with his wife about his desire to avoid life in a wheelchair should something ever happen.

And while his sister acknowledges that others might disagree with his decision, she knows it's what he wanted. "No outcome was ever going to be the one that we really want," she said. "But I felt that he did it on his terms in the end."

Well, I wouldn't want it, to be imprisoned in a hospital bed for life, unable to move. But if they could fix it so he didn't need a ventilator, that would improve things. I think they should have given him more time to consider the situation and maybe he would accept it. I am thinking of Christopher Reeves who said how depressed he was at first and wanted to die, then he changed his mind. They didn't give this guy much time to adjust to the situation.

 

[Katzndogz]

It's surprising how many people when faced with daunting obstacles over come them and go on to do great things. This man had no inner strength to draw on.

 

[Mr Natural]

There's a big difference between living and being alive.

I'd make the same decision that poor guy did. If for no other reason than to save my family the burden of my care.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Christina Symanski, 24, starved herself to death after she was paralysed so boyfriend could move on | Mail Online

Life; Paralyzed

What would you do if you were in her place?

 

[Katzndogz]

Been the very best and the most successful paralyzed person I could possibly be. It was unbelievably selfish of her to make up her boyfriend's mind for him. Plenty of people fall in love with paralyzed people AFTER they were paralyzed. She cheated her boyfriend out of being a very special person with a very special love.

Christopher Reeve's wife didn't "move on". Stephen Hawking married twisted in a wheel chair. I certainly remember women who committed suicide after mastectomy or hysterectomy because they didn't want to live as half a woman. Now we find that laughably silly. If not downright stupid. How about those "wounded warriors" coming back to loving families sans arms or legs.

All of these people are successful despite being quadriplegics.

Jesse Billauer – American surfer
Max Brito (born 1971) – Ivoirian international rugby union player; paralyzed in a match against Tonga in the 1995 Rugby World Cup.
Marc Buoniconti – Former collegiate football player & son of Pro Football Hall of Famer Nick Buoniconti. Paralyzed in a football game.
John Callahan – Cartoonist
Walter Harris Callow -inventor of the wheelchair accessible bus
Roy Campanella (1921–1993) – American baseball player. Paralyzed in a 1958 auto accident.
John Carter (1815–1850), English artist
Vic Chesnutt – Singer/songwriter
Chuck Close – American painter
Darren Drozdov (born 1969) – Professional wrestler, injured in a match with D'Lo Brown
Brooke Ellison (born 1978) – First quadriplegic to graduate from Harvard University. Paralyzed when struck by a car in 1990.
Steven Fletcher – Canadian Member of Parliament, paralyzed in an auto accident
Matt Hampson – England rugby player, paralysed in a scrummaging accident.
Stephen Hawking (born 1942) – Physicist, paralyzed due to amyotrophic lateral sclerosis
Jill Kinmont (1936–2012) – U.S. skier, paralyzed in a skiing accident in 1955, subject of the movie The Other Side of the Mountain
Robert Seung-Bok Lee – Chief resident of physical medicine and rehabilitation at John Hopkins Medical Center. One of the two quadriplegic doctors in the nation.
Tom Luckey (1940-2012) – American architect and sculptor best known for creating abstract playgrounds known as Luckey Climbers. Paralyzed due to a fall in 2005.
Curtis Mayfield (1942–1999) – Soul singer/songwriter, paralyzed in a stage accident in 1990.
Elena Mukhina – Soviet gymnast and 1978 World AA Champion, paralyzed as a result of an under-rotation in a practice routine.
Teddy Pendergrass (1950–2010) – soul singer, paralyzed in an auto accident in 1982.
Edward Rainey (born 1961) – Scottish painter
Christopher Reeve (1952–2004) – Actor, injured in a 1995 eventing accident.
Ed Roberts – Disability rights activist, first quadriplegic to attend the University of California, Berkeley
Patrick Rummerfield – first fully recovered quadriplegic, athlete, motivational speaker
Ramón Sampedro – Spanish fisherman, whose struggle for the right to die was dramatized in the film Mar Adentro
Sam Schmidt – IndyCar racing driver, paralysed in 2000 testing crash
Darryl Stingley (1951–2007) – American football player, paralyzed in a 1978 exhibition game.
Sam Sullivan (born 1959) – Canadian politician, mayor of Vancouver from 2005–2008. Paralyzed in a skiing accident at age 19.
Joni Eareckson Tada (born 1949) – Christian author and motivational speaker, paralyzed in a 1967 diving accident.
Mike Utley (born 1965) – Former Detroit Lions lineman, injured on a Barry Sanders touchdown run in 1991.
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin – Former leader of Hamas
Brad Zdanivsky – First quadriplegic rock climber to summit the Stawamus Chief
Mark Zupan (born 1975) – American wheelchair rugby player, featured in the film Murderball. Paralyzed in a 1993 auto accident.
Gary B. Witman, M.D. (born 1949) American - Director of Emergency Medicine, injured by a rogue wave while standing in the ocean.

Idiot Christina just wanted a woe is me. No one thinks she did something good or noble because she starved herself to death. The best that could be said is that she removed her stupidity from the world.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Maybe she was just done. A lot of people have a hard time being dependent on others... I for one can relate. I can't imagine having to call in an entourage just to take a shit, even if I could afford to pay them from my own assets. And it would depress me to no end to know that my family's assets were being drained for it.


I'd rather be a good memory than a chore.

 

[BDBoop]

Maybe she was just done. A lot of people have a hard time being dependent on others... I for one can relate. I can't imagine having to call in an entourage just to take a shit, even if I could afford to pay them from my own assets. And it would depress me to no end to know that my family's assets were being drained for it.


I'd rather be a good memory than a chore.

I found out after the fact that my parents had an agreement. If either of them needed a nursing home, it would be brought to them. He has worked hard all his life, the money was there for her care, and he was happy to be able to keep his promise.

As for her - she was so very brilliant, it hurt to watch her brain stop working.

 

[PixieStix]

My quality of life may not be an acceptable quality to some, but to me it is.

 

[Jughead]

As far as I am concerned there is only one super power who can make the decision to end the life of an innocent person.

What this fellow did was selfish. Yes, he had very serious health issues and was confined to a wheelchair. However, he left behind a wife, stepson and his unborn child. I believe the emotional suffering that his family is experiencing now is far worst that the physical suffering that Mr. Bowers was enduring. Too bad his unborn child will never get a chance to meet his/her father.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Maybe she was just done. A lot of people have a hard time being dependent on others... I for one can relate. I can't imagine having to call in an entourage just to take a shit, even if I could afford to pay them from my own assets. And it would depress me to no end to know that my family's assets were being drained for it.


I'd rather be a good memory than a chore.

I wonder if people really know what it takes, what is involved to "take a shit" if you have a spinal cord injury.

The three things that can kill you - skin, bowel, bladder. You cannot move your own bowels, you have no control over your bladder, you are incapable of normal sex and since you have no feeling below the level of injury, you don't feel it when your skin breaks down.

Just try sitting still for more than an hour. Use a movie to time yourself and see how long you can be still.

There are very specialized nerves called Perkinje fibers that occur in two places in the body - the heart and the floor of the rectum. Since the spinal cord can not communicate with the body below the level of the injury, the Perkinje fibers in the rectum no long get the message to increase peristalsis and expel waste.

Okay, here's where it gets really icky.

In order to stimulate the Perkinje fibers, a finger is inserted to manually rub the fibers.

If the person's injury is high enough that they don't have control of their arms and fingers, that must be done for them.

There are two kinds of spinal cord injury - spastic and flaccid. There are some important differences but our bodies are designed to move and to put weight on our bones and muscles. Obviously, the muscles disappear and that's very dangerous. Chemical imbalances can lead to liver and/or kidney failure. The intestines lose their tone and get bigger and bigger resulting in stools that are enormous. Sorry to get graphic but it cannot be disposed of in a household toilet.

You can't pee so you have what is called in slang, a supratube. Its a permanent indwelling catheter that is inserted just above the pubic bone directly into the bladder.

With a spastic injury, you are always in danger of your blood pressure spiking beyond control. A lot of quads die of stroke.

Tired of writing but if you want, I can describe what sex is like for spinal cord injuries. Or, what happens when skin sores (decubiti) open a tunnel through the flesh and into the intestines and yes, I've seen it.

I've seen enough of it to know I would not want to live that way.

 

[BDBoop]

Maybe she was just done. A lot of people have a hard time being dependent on others... I for one can relate. I can't imagine having to call in an entourage just to take a shit, even if I could afford to pay them from my own assets. And it would depress me to no end to know that my family's assets were being drained for it.


I'd rather be a good memory than a chore.

I wonder if people really know what it takes, what is involved to "take a shit" if you have a spinal cord injury.

The three things that can kill you - skin, bowel, bladder. You cannot move your own bowels, you have no control over your bladder, you are incapable of normal sex and since you have no feeling below the level of injury, you don't feel it when your skin breaks down.

Just try sitting still for more than an hour. Use a movie to time yourself and see how long you can be still.

There are very specialized nerves called Perkinje fibers that occur in two places in the body - the heart and the floor of the rectum. Since the spinal cord can not communicate with the body below the level of the injury, the Perkinje fibers in the rectum no long get the message to increase peristalsis and expel waste.

Okay, here's where it gets really icky.

In order to stimulate the Perkinje fibers, a finger is inserted to manually rub the fibers.

If the person's injury is high enough that they don't have control of their arms and fingers, that must be done for them.

There are two kinds of spinal cord injury - spastic and flaccid. There are some important differences but our bodies are designed to move and to put weight on our bones and muscles. Obviously, the muscles disappear and that's very dangerous. Chemical imbalances can lead to liver and/or kidney failure. The intestines lose their tone and get bigger and bigger resulting in stools that are enormous. Sorry to get graphic but it cannot be disposed of in a household toilet.

You can't pee so you have what is called in slang, a supratube. Its a permanent indwelling catheter that is inserted just above the pubic bone directly into the bladder.

With a spastic injury, you are always in danger of your blood pressure spiking beyond control. A lot of quads die of stroke.

Tired of writing but if you want, I can describe what sex is like for spinal cord injuries. Or, what happens when skin sores (decubiti) open a tunnel through the flesh and into the intestines and yes, I've seen it.

I've seen enough of it to know I would not want to live that way.

This is why I picked the title I did. Existence is not enough. Some say it is - I say they haven't tried existing. I can't imagine everything you're describing. I can't imagine having all these thoughts, and not being able to verbalize them, or put them down in print. I can't imagine looking at my daughter's beautiful face - and not knowing who she is.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I SO agree with you, Boop.

Also touched on is the incredible expense. Most people do not have the income to support and care for someone with a catastrophic injury or illness.

Someone with a high injury, like Christopher Reeve requires 24/7 care. The equipment and supplies needed are expensive and with the ceiling on insurance coverage - who pays when that's reached?

Most spinal cord injuries are young men. If they're not married, they are dependent on their parents until the money runs out or until the parents die. If married, the wife must not only be husband and wife, not only do what he would have done. She must also be a nurse and attendant.

If they have kids, he will forever be the child whose bowel and bladder is uncontrollable. If they don't have kids, they never will because, even though its possible to have a sad substitute for sex by something called "penile stuffing", he will feel nothing. NOTHING. And the sperm his body produces will be "retrograde ejaculated" into his bladder.

IMO, its a living hell.

More to the point though is that no one should be forced to live this life or any other life they don't want.

If you don't want to be alive, you should be able to make that choice. It should be legal and painless.

 

[Noomi]

As far as I am concerned there is only one super power who can make the decision to end the life of an innocent person.

What this fellow did was selfish. Yes, he had very serious health issues and was confined to a wheelchair. However, he left behind a wife, stepson and his unborn child. I believe the emotional suffering that his family is experiencing now is far worst that the physical suffering that Mr. Bowers was enduring. Too bad his unborn child will never get a chance to meet his/her father.

He didn't take his life without his wife knowing. His wife made a sacrifice, because she loved him dearly and wanted him to be happy, and in order for him to be happy, his life had to end. She knew that, she consented, and she said her goodbyes.

 

[Wolfsister77]

I said I don't know because unless you are in that situation it is hard to say but everyone should make sure you have an Advance Directive so if something like this ever happens to you, you can spell out exactly what you want done. You can do a DNR order too. Make sure you do this before you get in a situation where you can't. Luckily, this guy was able to make his own decision. This isn't always possible and it is hard enough for a family to have to deal with something like this, then to also have to make this decision for you. You should save them that heartache and do it yourself while you are health and of sound mind to make the decision. I would not want to be kept alive on machines. That's me. I would never want that. To me, that's not life.

 

[Esmeralda]

It's an issue that is very personal. I think everyone should have the right to die with dignity, that it should be legal, euthanasia, but well regulated. I do think this man should have had more than 5 hours to think it over though. To me, this decision was too quick. But, in the end, sooner than later, he should be given the right to chose to live that way or to die. No one can say what they would do or how they would feel in that situation. We just can't say. Hopefully, most people won't have to make that decision for themselves or others.

 

[Noomi]

My quality of life may not be an acceptable quality to some, but to me it is.

What if it changes, though? What if you couldn't move, or do anything to care for yourself, and had to rely on other people to dress you, bathe you, feed you, wipe your ass, etc? Would your quality of life change, or stay the same?

 

[Spiderman]

I voted yes but I would like to add that if I was only paralyzed from the waist down I might decide not to take my own life. I could still be independent.

If I was paralyzed from the neck down I would not want to live that way. There is no way I want to be completely helpless and dependent on others to feed me and wipe my ass.