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So, that's twice you have posted silly pics in a 'debate', and you wonder why I maintain this isn't a debate.
one.
Abortion doctors should receive very long prison sentences and lose their medical license.
A woman who is found guilty of having an abortion should get at least a couple of years in prison.
For me, there is no difference between a 12 week fetus being aborted or a 12 week birthed baby being killed. They are both the taking innocent human life. I know many people have their 'line' as to where life begins -- heartbeat; feeling pain; brainwaves. I believe that life begins at conception. Once that sperm and that egg do the dance, life begins. Since humans birth humans . . . well, so far no one has been able to convince me that what grows inside a pregnant woman isn't human life. When you have an abortion you destroy (kill, murder, call it what you will) that innocent human life.
In answer to the OP, what would the punishment be for someone who murdered a 12 week old birthed baby? Then that's the punishment I would apply to someone who murdered a fetus. Both the one who performed the abortion and the mother would be held accountable.
Ok, so according to your 'logic' when a raped woman that also has the terrible misfortune of becoming pregnant decides to get rid of the zygote, she should be punished for the crime of murder. Or a girl raped by her father/brother/uncle. Or a fourteen year old that decides with her mother that she simply can't carry the child to term and decides to take the easy way out. Or a 25-year-old girl that gets pregnant by a boy she just met. All of these women/girls are murderers and should be treated as such. Wow. That sounds more like perversion of justice if I've ever heard of one.
Maybe I should tell my mother that got an abortion right before she applied for divorce from my abusive alcoholic father or my friend who got pregnant while on the pill with a boy she just met... or the 18-year old girl that one day confided in me - that they are nothing short of murderers. Those terrible immoral empty shells of human beings!
Zoom, come on - justify, explain. I'm a-waitin'.
I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..
Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??
As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??
Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??
I am curious..
I seriously doubt abortion will ever be made illegal. There are far too many viarables, to make it anything other than a personal choice between two people. I say two because the father of the child should have rights if he's chosen to stick around and take responsibility for his part in the creation of a life.
The selfish part of me, however, thinks it should be illegal to have an abortion simply because you had a good time last week, and were too drunk to bother thinking about the possible consequences of your actions. In THAT case, I think it should be treated as any other "murder" (since that's the term you've chosen to use). The doctor performing the abortion is guilty of murder; the mother is an accomplice. Simple as that.
Age (too young) is no reason for an abortion, either. If you're old enough to have sex, you're old enough to suffer the consequences. If you're old enough to have sex, you're also old enough to take the necessary steps to get birth control. Scared of what Mommy and Daddy will say? Then you're too young for any of the above.
It all simply comes down to two words: Personoal responsibility. Our parents teach us that there are consequences for misbehaving. Why aren't they teaching us that there are consequences to trying to grow up before your time? There really are no "accidential" pregnancies, except for those wherein both parties are using a form of birth control, and it fails. In that case? Suck it up. You knew going into this that birth control is never 100% reliable - the only thing that is is complete abstinence. Raise your child.
Abortion needs to remain legal for things like rape, incest, severe medical complications that affect the lifespan of the mother and/or the child, and THOSE decisions should be left to the two people involved in the creation of said baby. It's nobody elses business.
Signed,
Right-Wing Fruitcake
I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..
Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??
As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??
Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??
I am curious..
Although I completely disagree with you that a 12 week fetus and a 12 week child are the same. If I did, then I would completely agree with you on how the murderer should be punished.For me, there is no difference between a 12 week fetus being aborted or a 12 week birthed baby being killed. They are both the taking innocent human life. I know many people have their 'line' as to where life begins -- heartbeat; feeling pain; brainwaves. I believe that life begins at conception. Once that sperm and that egg do the dance, life begins. Since humans birth humans . . . well, so far no one has been able to convince me that what grows inside a pregnant woman isn't human life. When you have an abortion you destroy (kill, murder, call it what you will) that innocent human life.
In answer to the OP, what would the punishment be for someone who murdered a 12 week old birthed baby? Then that's the punishment I would apply to someone who murdered a fetus. Both the one who performed the abortion and the mother would be held accountable.
I can't speak for Zoom but as i said above, if I did believe as she does that a 12 week fetus and a 12 week baby are both living human beings, then it would make no difference at all if they were the result of a rape. You can't claim some fetuses are entitled to rights and others not because of something their father did.For me, there is no difference between a 12 week fetus being aborted or a 12 week birthed baby being killed. They are both the taking innocent human life. I know many people have their 'line' as to where life begins -- heartbeat; feeling pain; brainwaves. I believe that life begins at conception. Once that sperm and that egg do the dance, life begins. Since humans birth humans . . . well, so far no one has been able to convince me that what grows inside a pregnant woman isn't human life. When you have an abortion you destroy (kill, murder, call it what you will) that innocent human life.
In answer to the OP, what would the punishment be for someone who murdered a 12 week old birthed baby? Then that's the punishment I would apply to someone who murdered a fetus. Both the one who performed the abortion and the mother would be held accountable.
Ok, so according to your 'logic' when a raped woman that also has the terrible misfortune of becoming pregnant decides to get rid of the zygote, she should be punished for the crime of murder. Or a girl raped by her father/brother/uncle. Or a fourteen year old that decides with her mother that she simply can't carry the child to term and decides to take the easy way out. Or a 25-year-old girl that gets pregnant by a boy she just met. All of these women/girls are murderers and should be treated as such. Wow. That sounds more like perversion of justice if I've ever heard of one.
Maybe I should tell my mother that got an abortion right before she applied for divorce from my abusive alcoholic father or my friend who got pregnant while on the pill with a boy she just met... or the 18-year old girl that one day confided in me - that they are nothing short of murderers. Those terrible immoral empty shells of human beings!
Zoom, come on - justify, explain. I'm a-waitin'.
Wrong. It wasn't till 1910 or so that abortion was made illegal. It was legal and commonplace during the colonial period, when the Constitution was written and up until about 1910, as I said.Are you under the impression that abortion has always been legal in this country? Or are you just so young you figure back when it was illegal is such "ancient" history it just doesn't count or what? It has been illegal for all but a few decades -so being illegal IS the norm in this country. And how that was done pretty easy to look up.
Shove it up your ass, Bf. I will post whatever I want, whereever I want, whenever I want - unless Gunny, or a Mod tells me different.
It is this kind of dumbass behavior that justifies my contention that there is no serious debate on this forum. Because you - and one or two others - are too fucking stupid to understand the difference between asking genuine questions and starting off from a stance of enflaming others.
That's why you're an idiot and I am not.
Save the bluster...
An idiot is a person that doesn't consider the consequences of their solutions...that would be YOU...
So let's end the debate here and now...as it stands the law is perfect...everyone has the right to CHOOSE... if you choose not to have an abortion, it is you business...if another woman chooses to have one, STFU...
Firstly, stop telling me to STFU, it makes you look stupid. Oh, wait..... yea, carry on - idiot boy.
Secondly, you don't fucking know my solution so don't make assumptions about them - to assume makes an Ass out of U, not Me..... oh wait.... yea, carry on - Assclown.
If you had half a brain, you would be able to work out my stance on abortion.... oh wait.... yea, carry on - stupid boy.
For the record: my stance on abortion (which I have already stated on this board): I am pro life - as a human being and as a Catholic - however, (and it is a capitalized however) - because I believe in the Constitution and the rights and responsibiilties of the individual, I believe that each person is entitled to make that decision for themselves.
I'm quite sure that will cause the heads of certain lefties to explode. I beleive I don't have the right to tell you how to live. I would seriously appreciate it if lefties would do likewise - instead of telling the rest of the country that we must live according to the principles (or lack thereof) of the left.
If I though abortion was a crime, even negligent homicide would still be way too strong a charge IMO. Certainly the loss of a life due to drinking and driving or a similar cause is far more of a loss that the loss of fetal "life".I am not sure what you are getting at here.
My point was that many murders get off with what most of us would consider light sentences. Even when convicted a murderer will get off with little or no time. To be clear, I may be thinking of things you would consider, "negligent homicide" types of murder.
Would one consider abortion, first degree murder or something less "attrocious"?
Immie
Their abortion should become a Dominos pizza topping.
In fact I think it is on the 'Meat Lovers'.
I am not sure where exactly to post this.. I was thinking the healthcare forum, but this is more of a morality thing..
Assuming that abortion is made illegal.. What would the punishment be??
As often as rightwingers throw around words like murderers and baby killers.. Would you try and convict a young female for murder and then execute her for an abortion??
Is there really teeth behind your words or is it just a fear tactic??
I am curious..
Are you under the impression that abortion has always been legal in this country? Or are you just so young you figure back when it was illegal is such "ancient" history it just doesn't count or what? It has been illegal for all but a few decades -so being illegal IS the norm in this country. And how that was done pretty easy to look up.
Without explaining the full rationale for why the laws were written the way they were -it was performing an abortion that was the crime in most states. Proving a woman had one was far more difficult and it was easier to convict an abortionist with the testimony of a woman who had been aborted by that person. So the laws tended to focus primarily on abortionists because they were running a criminal enterprise, were repeat violators of the law and were viewed as preying on women since the ones that came to police attention were those who left injured and dead women in their wake.
The punishment for performing an abortion was a prison sentence and if the abortionist had killed a woman as a result of the abortion -often also charged with manslaughter as well for which the punishment was harsher and in addition to the abortion violation. There has never been a death penalty for the crime in any state and if made illegal again, there still wouldn't be one.
AllieBaba , I disagree with the generalizations you've made about pro-choice folks.
Save the bluster...
An idiot is a person that doesn't consider the consequences of their solutions...that would be YOU...
So let's end the debate here and now...as it stands the law is perfect...everyone has the right to CHOOSE... if you choose not to have an abortion, it is you business...if another woman chooses to have one, STFU...
Firstly, stop telling me to STFU, it makes you look stupid. Oh, wait..... yea, carry on - idiot boy.
Secondly, you don't fucking know my solution so don't make assumptions about them - to assume makes an Ass out of U, not Me..... oh wait.... yea, carry on - Assclown.
If you had half a brain, you would be able to work out my stance on abortion.... oh wait.... yea, carry on - stupid boy.
For the record: my stance on abortion (which I have already stated on this board): I am pro life - as a human being and as a Catholic - however, (and it is a capitalized however) - because I believe in the Constitution and the rights and responsibiilties of the individual, I believe that each person is entitled to make that decision for themselves.
I'm quite sure that will cause the heads of certain lefties to explode. I beleive I don't have the right to tell you how to live. I would seriously appreciate it if lefties would do likewise - instead of telling the rest of the country that we must live according to the principles (or lack thereof) of the left.
However, it's never the right of one person to kill another, except in self defense, and therein lies the conundrum. Those of us who are pro-life believe that life begins at conception, and except in a matter of the life of the mother being in danger, see abortion as murder.
Pro-choice generally view babies of any age as inconsequential, but no more so than when they are still in their mothers' bodies. Not only that, but the pro-choice crowd see abortion as a way to reduce populations of people...whether they be poor, criminal, or whatever, and use the (false) argument that by allowing, funding, and encouraging women of these populations to #1, behave promiscuously, and #2, get abortions, they will reduce poverty, child abuse, and a variety of evils.
It's all about what value you place on life. If you listen to many of the pro-choice voices not just on this board, but universally, they don't see life...except the lives of themselves and their own.....as precious or valuable. They think the world would be a better place if there were fewer of all those they look down on. And maybe they're right. But the willingness to commit murder to accomplish it is genocide or selective breeding.
What are you? Chopped liver?AllieBaba , I disagree with the generalizations you've made about pro-choice folks.
And yet, no one has a problem with the generalizations made by others in this thread about pro-life folks?
Immie
AllieBaba , I disagree with the generalizations you've made about pro-choice folks.
