Public Opinion Supports Repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”

[AllieBaba]

Also, in Julius' army, there were no women.

 

[Political Junky]

Also, in Julius' army, there were no women.

You want to prohibit women in the military too?

 

[AllieBaba]

It's problematic in combat zones when women are thrown in with men.

 

[Just A Man]

ABikerSailor --
Yo, Bubbles.............just out of curiosity, when you came back from patrol (if you ever served, which I doubt), did you have someone waiting on the pier for you? Did your shipmates? If so, did they run over and hug them and kiss them?

I served, joined right out of high school at 17, boot camp, machinist mate school, sub school and went aboard the USS Thornback SS-418 in Key West at age 18 in 1958, then qualified in subs 5 months later and received my dolphins. Discharged in Charleston as MM2 (SS) drawing first class pay and hazardous duty pay at age 21 (kiddy cruiser). Recommended by XO for appointment to Naval Academy at age 19 but flunked the entrance exam.

Top that, sucka! -- LOL. And why would you doubt me? You want to know about diesel boats just ask me.

I never had anyone waiting for me on the pier. Some of my shipmates did. Some did run over and hug and kiss them. So what?

And guess what -- we had a queer on board. Sonarman. Suspected when he was in the head shaving his legs. Later another shipmate, Engineman, admitted to a sexual encounter with him.

I still say, Don't ask, don't tell is best for all.

But I respect your opinion if you differ.

 

[JBeukema]

problem with isn't the idea of 'don't ask, don't tell' as in not making such matters an issue, but with the actions taken against those who are found out and the double standards regarding sexual preference and actions. If someone acts in a manner unbecoming or disgraceful, deal with the action itself, be it solicitation, fraternization, or whatever.

 

[AllieBaba]

Or just keep don't ask don't tell, and it's not an issue.

 

[JBeukema]

Or just keep don't ask don't tell, and it's not an issue.

Your brilliance is evidenced by your grasp of the matter at hand

 

[AllieBaba]

Wow, it seems you're putting out fires all over the board. You have any friends at all? Besides the board child molester, I mean?

 

[Chris]

There are plenty of gays in the military.

Pretending there aren't is stupid.

Give this socialist a cookie!!!!

Give that wing nut a cup cake!

 

[elvis]

Actually, Chris is correct. After "Dont ask, Don't tell" was put into place, it would make sense that there are a lot of homosexuals in the military.

 

[Gudrid]

Just a Man and Allie - I've posed the question to both of you regarding whether you believe don't ask, don't tell should apply to heterosexuals as well. I guess I'll have to assume that you won't answer the question because doing so honestly might reveal hypocrisy? Or are you just needing time to think deeply on the matter?

 

[Chris]

Barry Goldwater Quote:
On gays in the military:
"Everyone knows that gays have served honorably in the military since at least the time of Julius Caesar."
"You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."

I love Barry Goldwater.

 

[Oscar Wao]

There are plenty of gays in the military.

Pretending there aren't is stupid.

Give this socialist a cookie!!!!

Give that wing nut a cup cake!

I was agreeing with you.

 

[JBeukema]

Just a Man and Allie - I've posed the question to both of you regarding whether you believe don't ask, don't tell should apply to heterosexuals as well. I guess I'll have to assume that you won't answer the question because doing so honestly might reveal hypocrisy? Or are you just needing time to think deeply on the matter?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gudrid again.

 

[Barb]

One of the great problems with the modern Public is that all too few of them have EVER SERVED IN THE MILITARY. Which is why they don't buy the unit cohesion argument. They don't understand it.

Same tired shit that was used to legitimatize segregation of the armed forces. That didn't last either.

 

[Barb]

That of course assumes the fellow soldier doesn't find said crush repugnant and when it is voiced immeddiately seek to transfer out. When you are hunkered down in a fox hole standing guard in a hot zone you don't need any additional distractions say like the ass of the guy you're on duty with.

That kept women out for a while too. Again, didn't last. Oh 4 2

 

[AllieBaba]

And since women have become members of the regular military, rape has become an overwhelming problem.

I can't even imagine what problems would abound with openly gay men.

 

[Barb]

I have served in the army during war.

We had NO known homos in our unit.

If someone had let it be known they were a queer

They would have been the first casuality in the next fire fight

Hey, friendly fire accidents sometimes happen

You're despicable. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Z2MP8vMWU&NR=1]YouTube - That's Despicable[/ame]

 

[JBeukema]

And since women have become members of the regular military, rape has become an overwhelming problem.

I can't even imagine what problems would abound with openly gay men.

Straights will start raping eachother if there are homosexuals around?

You've yet to demonstrate how not kicking people out when they're discovered to be gay will bring utter devastation.

 

[Barb]

Folks, we're missing the big question.

Why does a queer feel he has to announce his sexual proclivity?

That my friends requires an answer. Any queers want to give it a try? Or maybe a queer supporter would like to answer?

I served on a submarine and I can't remember anyone ever announcing they were straight, or anything else for that matter. There is no need to make an announcement.

Therefore, don't ask, don't tell works for all. But I think most common sense folks know why some queers don't want to keep quiet.

The Civil Rights act of 1964 is clarification of several areas of non-discrimination policy. Part of this legislation focused on employment, both in privately owned businesses and in government employment, and while sexual orientation was not specified in the ban on discrimination, gender was (Edwards, 2008, pg. 150). DADT violates this policy at the federal level. Although it is some improvement over an outright ban on gay service members, it does not uphold constitutional 14th Amendment rights, nor does it adhere to 1st Amendment rights of speech or association. Furthermore, it has done little to reign in the inherent culture of the armed services or the instances of harassment of gay and lesbian soldiers by their fellows and higher commands (Solomon Response, 2007). Edwards cites Harris v. Forklift Systems and Title V11 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, “The law is violated when the workplace environment “would reasonably be perceived, and is perceived, as hostile or abusive.” (Edwards, 2008, Pg. 164) It is hard to think of a more hostile environment that one in which a gag order is part of the employment contract (Solomon Response, 2007).

It is fair to question what employment discrimination has to do with equal access to marriage, but the two subjects are irrevocably connected through the realities of everyday life and civil rights law. Cornell University Law School (no date) identifies Equal Protection: “The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits states from denying any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws” (Cornell, no date), and the 1964 Civil Rights Act expanded that protection to cover government employees. Parts of any employment contract relate to spousal benefits of insurance, survival, social security, and retirement benefits (United States Student Association, 2004). Inability to claim same gendered partners as spouses deny those benefits, and DADT enforces that inability. Addressing the legitimacy of same gendered unions will essentially render DADT illegitimate.

Cornell University Law School (No date) Equal Protection retrieved May 1, 2008 from Equal protection | LII / Legal Information Institute

Edwards, G, Lineberry, R, and Wattenberg, M (2008) Government in America: People, Politics and Policy New York (etc.) Pearson Longman

Solomon Response.Org. (2007) The U.S. Military's Discriminatory Policy: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" retrieved May 1, 2008 from Solomon Response.Org | Don't Ask, Don't Tell

United States Student Association (2004) FMA and DOMA Legislative Factsheet retrieved May 1, 2008 from http://www.getthetoolkit.com/publications/FMA and DOMA factsheet.pdf