Proof for the pro abortion crowd

[sitarro]

Wheres the evidence? I didn't see any in the pictures. When the umbilical chord is cut and they start breathing oxygen, then they will be babies, not before.

That is about as silly as anything I have ever read on this board. Did you look at the pictures Merlin? Or did you refuse to in an attempt to keep from coming to the realization just what an abortion is.

I find it amazing that the assholes that perform this "service" could possibly have the word Doctor before their name, they are much closer to Nazis as far as I'm concerned. It is 2007, there is absolutely no reason that this should be performed as a convenience for the incubator that carries the child, I refuse to call someone that could consider this a mother. I am incredibly shocked that any woman could look at these pictures and proudly proclaim it's her choice. SICK!

 

[eots]

Wheres the evidence? I didn't see any in the pictures. When the umbilical chord is cut and they start breathing oxygen, then they will be babies, not before.

the article i posted says over the last 10 yrs there have been 15 baby's that survived the procedure living for up to 6 hours

 

[Merlin]

That is about as silly as anything I have ever read on this board. Did you look at the pictures Merlin? Or did you refuse to in an attempt to keep from coming to the realization just what an abortion is.

I find it amazing that the assholes that perform this "service" could possibly have the word Doctor before their name, they are much closer to Nazis as far as I'm concerned. It is 2007, there is absolutely no reason that this should be performed as a convenience for the incubator that carries the child, I refuse to call someone that could consider this a mother. I am incredibly shocked that any woman could look at these pictures and proudly proclaim it's her choice. SICK!

Yes, I looked at the pictures and saw many of them just like it. As far as I'm concerned they could pull the fetus out, knock it in the head, cut the chord and put it in the garbage can. Once they let it start breathing, it becomes a person and if killed, put the killer in the electric chair and turn the juice on.

 

[eots]

Yes, I looked at the pictures and saw many of them just like it. As far as I'm concerned they could pull the fetus out, knock it in the head, cut the chord and put it in the garbage can. Once they let it start breathing, it becomes a person and if killed, put the killer in the electric chair and turn the juice on.

Late-Term Babies Born Alive after Abortions Are Left to Die in Canadian Hospitals

By Liz Townsend

Several Canadian hospitals routinely abort late-term unborn babies or leave them to die if they are born alive during the procedure, according to press reports. The discovery of this practice has led to a firestorm of controversy across the country.
Articles about the babies' deaths in one Alberta hospital has led to reports of similar late-term abortions and subsequent live births in another Alberta hospital and in British Columbia. There are no national laws in Canada protecting unborn babies from abortion at any stage, but it is illegal to cause a baby's death during labor or after birth, according to Alberta Report. Police in Calgary, Alberta, have launched an investigation to determine if laws were broken there, the Toronto Globe and Mail reported.

These late-term abortions are usually performed by artificially inducing labor with drugs, which cause the baby to be expelled whole from the uterus. Most of the time, the babies die before being delivered, but not always.

In British Columbia, at least 16 babies have survived late-term abortions since 1995, all dying within six hours after birth, according to figures released by the province's chief coroner. Most of these occurred at B.C. Women's Hospital in Vancouver, the B.C. Catholic reported.

Again, officials claimed the abortions were all done for "genetic reasons," according to the Catholic. Chief Coroner Larry Campbell said his office would not conduct investigations into the deaths, insisting he could only "investigate death if unexpected," the Catholic reported.

Edmonton, Alberta's Royal Alexandra Hospital also performs such late-term abortions. According to the Edmonton Journal, hospital communications manager Donna Angus "did not know how many late-stage abortions are done but she did confirm some aborted fetuses live for short periods after birth is induced."

The most detailed information about these late-term abortions came from nurses in Calgary's Alberta Foothills Hospital, who were forced to assist in the abortions and to stand idly by while the newborn babies slowly perished without medical treatment. The nurses told their story to journalist Marnie Ko of Alberta Report under a promise of anonymity to protect their jobs.

One nurse, referred to as "Catherine," told of a baby who survived an abortion last August, five weeks before the mother's due date. "The mother didn't want the baby, so we took turns rocking and holding it for 12 hours until it finally died," she said, according to Alberta Report. "Nurses were only allowed to comfort the suffering infant, but this did not even include feedings."

Nurse "Sanders" told of an 18-week-old unborn baby diagnosed with "a chromosomal problem" who was born alive after an abortion earlier this year. "While the mother cried, the baby was trying to breathe, slowly taking in air, struggling for each breath," she told Alberta Report. "She suffered for 30 minutes."

The nurses said that in March the hospital placed women receiving late-term abortions in the same ward as new mothers, ordering the nurses who previously cared for mothers and newborn babies to also assist in abortions, according to Alberta Report. Although Norma Kirkham, senior operating officer of Alberta Foothills Hospital, told Ko that "every effort is made to allow nurses to get out of [abortions]," the nurses disagreed.

 

[eots]

.
Signatures: 3,914
Goal: 25,000
Deadline: 11-5-2004
See Full Petition
Email this Petition
November 5, 2003 was a dark day for pro-choice America. President Bush became the first president to criminalize an abortion procedure since Roe vs. Wade established a woman's constitutional right to a safe and legal abortion in 1973.

This late-term abortion ban is just the first piece of legislation in Bush's anti-woman, anti-choice agenda. The real goal of this Administration is to chip away at Roe vs. Wade, one bill at a time, until it is completely overturned and we are once again living in the dark ages of illegal, botched abortions.

But we live in the 21st century, and we will not go back!



oh where gong back to the dark ages and beyond back to the days of ritual child sacrafice....becaue most of the time thats what it is, concerns over money ,possessions and prestige and for these things a life is sacraficed
rather than sacrafice 9 months of ones life t give a lifetime to someone else
can you imagine a hell more real than these baby's that survive the procedure to come into this world with no love scared .hurt in pain grievously wounded
left alone for 5hrs struggling clinging desperately to....life

 

[glockmail]

Yes, I looked at the pictures and saw many of them just like it. As far as I'm concerned they could pull the fetus out, knock it in the head, cut the chord and put it in the garbage can. Once they let it start breathing, it becomes a person and if killed, put the killer in the electric chair and turn the juice on.

Stated like a true Nazi. I'm still waiting for a response to post 80.

 

[Merlin]

So if you are on life support then I can kill you and I won't be prosecuted for murder?

To answer this question, "YES, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH FOR IT, AT LEAST BRING ME A GUN"!!!! And if you like, you can stand there and watch. Quantity of life don't make diddley squat. Its quality. People put too much emphasis on life. If my Mom would have aborted me I wouldn't have known anything about it.

 

[glockmail]

To answer this question, "YES, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE STOMACH FOR IT, AT LEAST BRING ME A GUN"!!!! And if you like, you can stand there and watch. Quantity of life don't make diddley squat. Its quality. People put too much emphasis on life. If my Mom would have aborted me I wouldn't have known anything about it.

1. We disagree on the quality of life issue because I feel that the person who's life it is should make that choice.
2. But what I'm really interested in is that if someone is on life support that is no indication by itself that when they get off and through re-hab they will go back to normal work and play. This is the correct analogy to the fetus about to be born. So with that I ask you again, if you were on life support with an excellent prognosis and I shot you through the brain, should I be prosecuted for your murder?

 

[Merlin]

1. We disagree on the quality of life issue because I feel that the person who's life it is should make that choice.
2. But what I'm really interested in is that if someone is on life support that is no indication by itself that when they get off and through re-hab they will go back to normal work and play. This is the correct analogy to the fetus about to be born. So with that I ask you again, if you were on life support with an excellent prognosis and I shot you through the brain, should I be prosecuted for your murder?

I'll try to answer that as best as I can, but I don't think I can be as objective as an outsider looking in. I need a new heart but I am not a candidate for it for a couple of reasons. First one is a berth defect of abnormally small arteries. I was sent home to die twice, the first time in 1998. At that time the claim was that stints wouldn't help and would kill me trying to get it in because they were larger than my arteries. (that has since changed and I am full of them) I told the Dr. to try anyway because if he didn't, I would probably wind up doing something myself. He finally agreed and my family said all our goodbyes and they wheeled me in. I woke up and the Dr. told me that the stints slid right thru the grease. Another reason I'm not a candidate is, I smoke and have for 62 years and I'm sure not going to quit now. And I don't care what the prognosis is, I'm "NOT" going on life support, period. Yes, if you killed me, you would probably be prosecuted for murder, all though I wouldn't want you to be. I quit hunting years ago because I don't want to kill anything. I even quit butchering my own hogs because it got to where it bothered me. I now buy my lard from another source. To reiterate, I don't think a fetus is a living, viable human being until it draws it's first breadth. Then it is as much alive as anything ever born and I would try to protect it as much as I would anything else on this earth. That is my opinion and it is unchangeable and non negotiable.

 

[glockmail]

I'll try to answer that as best as I can, but I don't think I can be as objective as an outsider looking in. I need a new heart but I am not a candidate for it for a couple of reasons. First one is a berth defect of abnormally small arteries. I was sent home to die twice, the first time in 1998. At that time the claim was that stints wouldn't help and would kill me trying to get it in because they were larger than my arteries. (that has since changed and I am full of them) I told the Dr. to try anyway because if he didn't, I would probably wind up doing something myself. He finally agreed and my family said all our goodbyes and they wheeled me in. I woke up and the Dr. told me that the stints slid right thru the grease. Another reason I'm not a candidate is, I smoke and have for 62 years and I'm sure not going to quit now. And I don't care what the prognosis is, I'm "NOT" going on life support, period. Yes, if you killed me, you would probably be prosecuted for murder, all though I wouldn't want you to be. I quit hunting years ago because I don't want to kill anything. I even quit butchering my own hogs because it got to where it bothered me. I now buy my lard from another source. To reiterate, I don't think a fetus is a living, viable human being until it draws it's first breadth. Then it is as much alive as anything ever born and I would try to protect it as much as I would anything else on this earth. That is my opinion and it is unchangeable and non negotiable.

Well I'm sorry for your poor health but if you started smoking when you were 15 that makes you 77 which is a long life, especially with someone with a congenital defect. I think that you understand that you would be in much better health if it wasn’t for your choices on smoking and diet. And that's good too because that's about personal responsibility, a concept that I push for vehemently here and in real life.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your position is if you go on life support- with an excellent prognosis- and I kill you then, I would be prosecuted legally, although you would not want me to be prosecuted. In other words, I should be allowed to make the choice that you should live or die solely because you cannot breathe on your own at the moment that I pull the trigger. Am I correct?

Also based on your last sentence am I correct that you consider yourself closed- minded?

 

[sitarro]

I'll try to answer that as best as I can, but I don't think I can be as objective as an outsider looking in. I need a new heart but I am not a candidate for it for a couple of reasons. First one is a berth defect of abnormally small arteries. I was sent home to die twice, the first time in 1998. At that time the claim was that stints wouldn't help and would kill me trying to get it in because they were larger than my arteries. (that has since changed and I am full of them) I told the Dr. to try anyway because if he didn't, I would probably wind up doing something myself. He finally agreed and my family said all our goodbyes and they wheeled me in. I woke up and the Dr. told me that the stints slid right thru the grease. Another reason I'm not a candidate is, I smoke and have for 62 years and I'm sure not going to quit now. And I don't care what the prognosis is, I'm "NOT" going on life support, period. Yes, if you killed me, you would probably be prosecuted for murder, all though I wouldn't want you to be. I quit hunting years ago because I don't want to kill anything. I even quit butchering my own hogs because it got to where it bothered me. I now buy my lard from another source. To reiterate, I don't think a fetus is a living, viable human being until it draws it's first breadth. Then it is as much alive as anything ever born and I would try to protect it as much as I would anything else on this earth. That is my opinion and it is unchangeable and non negotiable.

Sorry about your health problems Merlin, just having to deal with the health care industry is torture in itself, hopefully you are as comfortable as possible.

I don't understand your views on the unborn( kind of a silly term since a human being is a human being at all stages of it's life). Do you really believe that because a child in the womb breaths in a different way than the child a second later that comes through the birth canal and breathes it's first breath of air(polluted as it is) , it makes it less than human? What is it? It looks like a human, acts like a human.... you don't think it's a fish do you.

 

[Merlin]

Sorry about your health problems Merlin, just having to deal with the health care industry is torture in itself, hopefully you are as comfortable as possible.

I don't understand your views on the unborn( kind of a silly term since a human being is a human being at all stages of it's life). Do you really believe that because a child in the womb breaths in a different way than the child a second later that comes through the birth canal and breathes it's first breath of air(polluted as it is) , it makes it less than human? What is it? It looks like a human, acts like a human.... you don't think it's a fish do you.

Thank you. You summed up my feelings pretty good. I believe it is just living cells until it breaths own it's own, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Merlin]

Well I'm sorry for your poor health but if you started smoking when you were 15 that makes you 77 which is a long life, especially with someone with a congenital defect. I think that you understand that you would be in much better health if it wasn’t for your choices on smoking and diet. And that's good too because that's about personal responsibility, a concept that I push for vehemently here and in real life.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but your position is if you go on life support- with an excellent prognosis- and I kill you then, I would be prosecuted legally, although you would not want me to be prosecuted. In other words, I should be allowed to make the choice that you should live or die solely because you cannot breathe on your own at the moment that I pull the trigger. Am I correct?

Also based on your last sentence am I correct that you consider yourself closed- minded?

That is everything in a nutshell, all wrapped up pretty. But I hope I make my own decision to die when I refuse to go on life support. My orders are on file everywhere I have medical attention of no life support and "Do Not Resuscitate". Yes, I am very closed minded on this subject. (and a few more that is very controversial)

 

[Bern80]

Yes, I am very closed minded on this subject. (and a few more that is very controversial)

That is a very strange thing to admit to. To know that you are close minded implies that you are more interested in maintaining a belief (whether true or not) than finding the truth itself. Extended to the abortion debate, if it were found to be unequivocably true that a person is a person even if in the womb you would not want to know, lest you be forced into quite the paradox.

 

[Merlin]

That is a very strange thing to admit to. To know that you are close minded implies that you are more interested in maintaining a belief (whether true or not) than finding the truth itself. Extended to the abortion debate, if it were found to be unequivocably true that a person is a person even if in the womb you would not want to know, lest you be forced into quite the paradox.

That is so close to the truth that you win the prize money.

 

[T-Bor]

Abortions a good thing. Overpopulation is a bad thing. Keep using those coat hangers ladies. T-bor out.

 

[glockmail]

Abortions a good thing. Overpopulation is a bad thing. Keep using those coat hangers ladies. T-bor out.

Too bad your Mum didn't think that way.

 

[Darwins Friend]

One can only wonder how long it will be before young males are convicted for self-pleasing and wasting their seed.

 

[glockmail]

One can only wonder how long it will be before young males are convicted for self-pleasing and wasting their seed.

You must have yours stored up in a drum?

 

[Darwins Friend]

You must have yours stored up in a drum?

Yes, but at 76 - it's a very small drum.