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Say what?
You mean the nations of EU which have "hate speech" laws, or the US which has a massive NSA surveillance system?
We should fight Russia to preserve what "freedom" exactly, the freedom to peddle homosexual propaganda to children? See how many young men you can get to sign up for World War 3 under that banner, lol.
Good for Donetsk, I support the right of secession. If I were from Donestk, I would support this, I wouldn't want to be under the EU, and wouldn't want to live in an poor economy under severe IMF and EU austerity measures.
Say what?
You mean the nations of EU which have "hate speech" laws, or the US which has a massive NSA surveillance system?
We should fight Russia to preserve what "freedom" exactly, the freedom to peddle homosexual propaganda to children? See how many young men you can get to sign up for World War 3 under that banner, lol.
If you read back through this thread, you'll see that my position is to challenge Russia on an economic level, drive down the price of oil. This would require a break in the left's war on the middle class, but is the most effective way of containing Russia.
Nowhere have I advocated war.
Good for Donetsk, I support the right of secession. If I were from Donestk, I would support this, I wouldn't want to be under the EU, and wouldn't want to live in an poor economy under severe IMF and EU austerity measures.
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
Good for Donetsk, I support the right of secession. If I were from Donestk, I would support this, I wouldn't want to be under the EU, and wouldn't want to live in an poor economy under severe IMF and EU austerity measures.
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Reagan and the Bushes would have done nothing either.
And rightly so! We didn't have a military disadvantage when Ukraine etc. was part of the Soviet Union. We need to respect their sphere of influence, just like they need to respect Ours. Putin knows better than to invade NATO countries...............
Guy, the Cold War ended some time ago. There is no SPhere of Influence anymore.
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Alright, I misjudged you, my apologies.
I support the Ukraine choosing their own path. I find it difficult to see that aligning with Russia offers a greater prospect of economic and civil success than aligning with Europe, but the choice is theirs.
And rightly so! We didn't have a military disadvantage when Ukraine etc. was part of the Soviet Union. We need to respect their sphere of influence, just like they need to respect Ours. Putin knows better than to invade NATO countries...............
Guy, the Cold War ended some time ago. There is no SPhere of Influence anymore.
Sure there are. Ukraine is part of the their Near abroad. NATO hasn't gotten the memo that the Cold War is over. The US should have as much interest in the Ukraine as the Russians would have in Alabama. None. Zilch. Zip.
Guy, the Cold War ended some time ago. There is no SPhere of Influence anymore.
Sure there are. Ukraine is part of the their Near abroad. NATO hasn't gotten the memo that the Cold War is over. The US should have as much interest in the Ukraine as the Russians would have in Alabama. None. Zilch. Zip.
Alabama is a separate country? Who knew?
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Alright, I misjudged you, my apologies.
I support the Ukraine choosing their own path. I find it difficult to see that aligning with Russia offers a greater prospect of economic and civil success than aligning with Europe, but the choice is theirs.
Guy, the Cold War ended some time ago. There is no SPhere of Influence anymore.
Sure there are. Ukraine is part of the their Near abroad. NATO hasn't gotten the memo that the Cold War is over. The US should have as much interest in the Ukraine as the Russians would have in Alabama. None. Zilch. Zip.
Alabama is a separate country? Who knew?
Good for Donetsk, I support the right of secession. If I were from Donestk, I would support this, I wouldn't want to be under the EU, and wouldn't want to live in an poor economy under severe IMF and EU austerity measures.
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Oh, you're one of those.
Tell me, what is the per capita GDP of France, vs. the Ukraine, vs. Russia?
Do you have some more bullshit you wish to share?
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Your assessment that it is better to be in a union with Russia is a bit off. Russia has no industry (except military hardware) that is able to compete internationally. The revenues that the country enjoys are largely based on the sale of raw materials and petroleum products and are controlled by a select few friends of Putin. Much of the country's wealth is being siphoned off by these same cronies. Corruption at every level in Russia is endemic and nothing points to that changing.
Regarding the Eurasian Union that seems to be Putin's ambition to mask a renewal of the old Soviet Union, former Soviet Bloc countries are not rushing to join for a very simple reason - this Union favors Russia at the expense of other member nations.
The Ukraine will be bled dry by Russia if given an opportubity to do so. Given the choice Ukrainians will be significantly better off working with other European nations than it would be working with Russia.
.
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Your assessment that it is better to be in a union with Russia is a bit off. Russia has no industry (except military hardware) that is able to compete internationally. The revenues that the country enjoys are largely based on the sale of raw materials and petroleum products and are controlled by a select few friends of Putin. Much of the country's wealth is being siphoned off by these same cronies. Corruption at every level in Russia is endemic and nothing points to that changing.
Regarding the Eurasian Union that seems to be Putin's ambition to mask a renewal of the old Soviet Union, former Soviet Bloc countries are not rushing to join for a very simple reason - this Union favors Russia at the expense of other member nations.
The Ukraine will be bled dry by Russia if given an opportubity to do so. Given the choice Ukrainians will be significantly better off working with other European nations than it would be working with Russia.
.
You act as though having an abundance of natural resources and minerals is a weakness. Unless the whole world moves to windmills tomorrow, Russia will remain a strong and growing economy. LNG is the future, and eventually it will overtake oil as it is cleaner burning and cheaper overall. Russia has an abundance of LNG. So as the west becomes less dependent on Middle Eastern Oil, they(Europe) will grow in dependence on Russian LNG.
Also, a strong energy sector results in growth in other sectors of the domestic economy. Having a strong natural resource base, a strong energy sector, is the foundation for a strong economy. This is exemplified by the fact that since 1999, when Putin came into power, Russia has seen positive economic growth every year(minus 2009) due to an strong energy sector.
GDP growth (annual %) | Data | Table
Income disparities are on the rise in Europe and the US as well, corruption is rampant in the West as well(just look at the multi-trillion dollar banker bailouts)I don't really see your point there.
Also, Ukraine's corruption levels are on par with Nigeria or the Central African Republic. Not only is it the most corrupt state in Europe, but one of the most corrupt in the world. They are far more corrupt than Russia. So saying certain sections of Ukraine oppose Russia due to it's supposed corruption is laughable.
Which nations don't want to trade with Russia in the former Soviet Bloc? Can you list them?
Ukraine is being bled dry by the EU and IMF, already if that is your concern. Russia would not have impose austerity measures in their debt deal.
Ukraine Welcomes IMF Austerity Regime - Forbes
Ukraine parliament passes austerity bill required by IMF ? RT News
17 December 2013 Ukrainian?Russian action plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Your assessment that it is better to be in a union with Russia is a bit off. Russia has no industry (except military hardware) that is able to compete internationally. The revenues that the country enjoys are largely based on the sale of raw materials and petroleum products and are controlled by a select few friends of Putin. Much of the country's wealth is being siphoned off by these same cronies. Corruption at every level in Russia is endemic and nothing points to that changing.
Regarding the Eurasian Union that seems to be Putin's ambition to mask a renewal of the old Soviet Union, former Soviet Bloc countries are not rushing to join for a very simple reason - this Union favors Russia at the expense of other member nations.
The Ukraine will be bled dry by Russia if given an opportubity to do so. Given the choice Ukrainians will be significantly better off working with other European nations than it would be working with Russia.
.
You act as though having an abundance of natural resources and minerals is a weakness. Unless the whole world moves to windmills tomorrow, Russia will remain a strong and growing economy. LNG is the future, and eventually it will overtake oil as it is cleaner burning and cheaper overall. Russia has an abundance of LNG. So as the west becomes less dependent on Middle Eastern Oil, they(Europe) will grow in dependence on Russian LNG.
Also, a strong energy sector results in growth in other sectors of the domestic economy. Having a strong natural resource base, a strong energy sector, is the foundation for a strong economy. This is exemplified by the fact that since 1999, when Putin came into power, Russia has seen positive economic growth every year(minus 2009) due to an strong energy sector.
GDP growth (annual %) | Data | Table
Income disparities are on the rise in Europe and the US as well, corruption is rampant in the West as well(just look at the multi-trillion dollar banker bailouts)I don't really see your point there.
Also, Ukraine's corruption levels are on par with Nigeria or the Central African Republic. Not only is it the most corrupt state in Europe, but one of the most corrupt in the world. They are far more corrupt than Russia. So saying certain sections of Ukraine oppose Russia due to it's supposed corruption is laughable.
Which nations don't want to trade with Russia in the former Soviet Bloc? Can you list them?
Ukraine is being bled dry by the EU and IMF, already if that is your concern. Russia would not have impose austerity measures in their debt deal.
Ukraine Welcomes IMF Austerity Regime - Forbes
Ukraine parliament passes austerity bill required by IMF ? RT News
17 December 2013 Ukrainian?Russian action plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I would rather live in France than Ukraine, from a purely economic perspective, but France isn't Ukraine. Ukraine will never be a France, and these austerity measures will push Ukraine into further poverty. They will look more like a Bulgaria or a Romania, both of which are eastern EU nations much weaker than Russia.
The real question is, would I rather be in economic union with the EU or with Russia, if I were a Ukrainian. In the long term, I would rather be part of a union with Russia. GDP per capita between France and Russia is but one measure that doesn't take into account Russia suffered economically in the 90s after the fall of Communism, and in the final years of Communism in the 80s. If you look at other economic indicators, like debt to GDP ratio, unemployment, or economic growth, Russia beats the EU on all those indicators. This, and Ukraine will have to pay much less of an economic price to join with Russia and reap benefits in the long term.
Your assessment that it is better to be in a union with Russia is a bit off. Russia has no industry (except military hardware) that is able to compete internationally. The revenues that the country enjoys are largely based on the sale of raw materials and petroleum products and are controlled by a select few friends of Putin. Much of the country's wealth is being siphoned off by these same cronies. Corruption at every level in Russia is endemic and nothing points to that changing.
Regarding the Eurasian Union that seems to be Putin's ambition to mask a renewal of the old Soviet Union, former Soviet Bloc countries are not rushing to join for a very simple reason - this Union favors Russia at the expense of other member nations.
The Ukraine will be bled dry by Russia if given an opportubity to do so. Given the choice Ukrainians will be significantly better off working with other European nations than it would be working with Russia.
.
You act as though having an abundance of natural resources and minerals is a weakness. Unless the whole world moves to windmills tomorrow, Russia will remain a strong and growing economy. LNG is the future, and eventually it will overtake oil as it is cleaner burning and cheaper overall. Russia has an abundance of LNG. So as the west becomes less dependent on Middle Eastern Oil, they(Europe) will grow in dependence on Russian LNG.
Also, a strong energy sector results in growth in other sectors of the domestic economy. Having a strong natural resource base, a strong energy sector, is the foundation for a strong economy. This is exemplified by the fact that since 1999, when Putin came into power, Russia has seen positive economic growth every year(minus 2009) due to an strong energy sector.
GDP growth (annual %) | Data | Table
Income disparities are on the rise in Europe and the US as well, corruption is rampant in the West as well(just look at the multi-trillion dollar banker bailouts)I don't really see your point there.
Also, Ukraine's corruption levels are on par with Nigeria or the Central African Republic. Not only is it the most corrupt state in Europe, but one of the most corrupt in the world. They are far more corrupt than Russia. So saying certain sections of Ukraine oppose Russia due to it's supposed corruption is laughable.
Which nations don't want to trade with Russia in the former Soviet Bloc? Can you list them?
Ukraine is being bled dry by the EU and IMF, already if that is your concern. Russia would not have impose austerity measures in their debt deal.
Ukraine Welcomes IMF Austerity Regime - Forbes
Ukraine parliament passes austerity bill required by IMF ? RT News
17 December 2013 Ukrainian?Russian action plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I will say I'm loving every minute of witnessing Kiev freaking out over "bad protestors" who don't like what Kiev stands for any more.
Good for Donetsk, I support the right of secession. If I were from Donestk, I would support this, I wouldn't want to be under the EU, and wouldn't want to live in an poor economy under severe IMF and EU austerity measures.
