Pro-Christian Legislation vs. Anti-Christian Legislation

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Coloradomtnman, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Despite a recent decline, Christians (or people who define themselves as Christians) make up 77% of the population of the United States!

    There are many, very powerful Christian organizations that wield millions of votes, millions of dollars of potential campaign donations, and extremly poweful lobbies in DC. Are you curious as to how many? Google it. You'll be suprised! And many of these organizations' goals are to infiltrate public office and make our secular government a Christian theocracy. Just check out some their websites like: EAGLECROSS ALLIANCE POLITICAL NEWS AND RESOURCES FOR THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY

    I did several searches for powerful atheist, agnostic, or other anti-religious political organizations and guess how many I discovered? None. Oh, there were many little organizations, but they weren't lobbies or political or powerful unlink the Christian organizations described above.

    So, why then do Christians so frequently play the victim? Is it because of anti-Christian legislation?

    The only legislation I could find that could be inferred as anti-Christian was hate crime and hate speech laws. Apparently, if such legislation passes, if a pastor preaches against homosexuality and one of his flock goes out and assaults a homosexual or a transgender person, that pastor can be charged with hate speech. Well, at least, that's what the Christians claim who oppose the legislation. How legitimate that claim is I haven't been able to verify, but it smacks of the unfoundedness of the Christian belief that the government will force churches to marry homosexuals if we allow same-sex marriages.

    I thought, "Well, why don't these non-Christian elements try to outlaw Christianity?" Then it occurred to me: because they support freedom of religion. Now, why is that? Because they are the minority in this country. If they didn't support freedom of religion, the Christians who are by far the majority would outlaw those of differing or no religious beliefs! Of course! That's why Christians fled to the New World in the 16th and 17th Centuries.

    So, then I thought, "Maybe there is historic precedence for anti-Christian legislation." I researched that branch of thinking and.... Nope. In fact, I found lots of laws that were based on Christian belief i.e. anti-sodomy laws, can't work on Sundays, etc. etc. Many of these laws have been overturned and others are no longer enforced except to push political agenda. Some of those laws are discussed here: American lawbreaking: Illegal immigration. (1) - By Tim Wu - Slate Magazine

    I have read posts by many people on this forum about how Christianity imposes itself on others through legislation. "What legislation?" the Christians ask. Well, here you go:

    #1. Of course! Proposition 8 in California, and the many, many other such campaigns and laws across the country which haven't yet been overturned (unlike Iowa, surprisingly). This type of legislation is overwhelmingly proposed and supported by religious organizations and voters. They try to say that its a moral issue, but non-believers don't care about homosexuals or the sanctity or definition of non-Christian, non-religious based ideas. And yet, no matter how many times you tell Christians that they won't have to get married to the same-sex, or that the government won't force churches to marry same-sex couples, they won't believe you.

    #2. The Personhood bills which are a newly and thinly disguised abortion ban campaign. The constant threat to a woman's right to choose seems an endless battle. And no matter how many times you tell Christians that they can choose not to get abortions, they still try to make abortions illegal. There is always a new threat to Roe v. Wade, for some reason, I dont' know why.

    #3. Euthanasia. Its only legal in Washington and Oregon, and only recently. If this was a moral issue, there would be no opposition, but, unfortunately for all those dying in agony and with little quality of life despite their wishes to pass on, its a religious issue. God doesn't forgive suicide even if it is humane.

    #4. Here's something for you Christmas Warriors out there: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-847. Its innocuously worded, but the implications are far-reaching. Basically this bill extends governmental protection to Christmas and Christians against that awful, insidious enemy of true-believers everywhere: "bigotry"

    So, what aren't Christians allowed to do: Teach creationism and intelligent design in public schools, lead children in prayer in public schools, publicly expound their hatred of those who are different from them, and... what else? Is that it? If you can think of more, please, post them in response.

    Okay, what are non-believers not allowed to do because Christians don't like it: get married if they're gay (whether they are Christian or not), possibly lose you're right to choose if you're a woman, you can't choose to die if you're terminally ill and suffering, and, you have to allow Christmas to be celebrated and not be bigotted toward Christians if you live in Iowa (which are really big threats to Christianity).

    And this is just the legislation-ways that Christianity dominates this nation. There is also the constant threat that Christians will overrun government and that this nation will become a theocracy despite separation of church and state. Obviously many Christian groups (extremists no doubt) believe that this country was founded on Christian principles and should be a Christian-governed nation, despite the Constitution and the history of the fates of theocracies: revolution and collapse.

    Now, I might've missed somethings in this OP. If anyone else knows of any other legislation, either Pro-Christian or anti-Christian, please share.

    And just remember: spiritual belief is a private matter, not a public one. You have your relationship with God, but don't make me tell you to "Get a room!"
     
  2. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    Hey, didn't we just have the "big debate" over whether or not America was a Christian nation? I guess it is.

    Anyway, it's all about how you define "Christian" legislation. If you think that the refusal to enact laws which go against Christian core beliefs, but at the same time do not impinge on anyone's human rights, is "Christian" legislation, there's a problem. Because ANTI-CHristian legislation is geared at targeting, marginalizing and penalizing Christians.

    Get it? Yes we're the majority, which is why the minority of Christian haters will walk all over the Constititution in order to force their own beliefs upon the majority.
     
  3. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Wow. Everytime I read one of your posts I realize that you're a complete fuckin' wacko. No, I don't get it. What the hell are you talking about?

    "Refusing to enact laws which go against Christian core beliefs but at the same time do no impinge on anyone's human rights" isn't Christian legislation? That's exactly what it is. Christians don't want same-sex couples to marry so the propose bills and vote those into law to prohibit same-sex couples the legality to marry. How is that not forcing others to live by your beliefs?

    What anti-Christian legislation are you talking about? There isn't any! When does anyone ignore the Constitution to force Christians to live by another's beliefs? Never. It never happens!

    You know those religious fanatic-extremists like the Taliban, Al Qaida, etc.? You're like the Christian version of one of them.
     
  4. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    And everytime I read something a leftard writes, I'm amazed at their ignorance and lack of simple comprehensive ability.

    "Christian" legislation would be legislation which legislates religion. Do you get it? Not something that legislates Christian VALUES (thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal). This is NOT Christian legislation. Voting down the homo marriage crap that legislators keep trying to force down the throat of the MAJORITY of people who are against it is NOT Christian legislation, you fucking idiot.

    However, legislating what Christians can say and do within the confines of their church..provided their actions are not illegal...or discriminating against Christians or denying them freedom of speech or the ability to become political BASED UPON THEIR RELIGION is ANTI-CHRISTIAN legislation.

    It's a violation of freedom of religion, and is the very thing the whole "separation of church and state" concept was supposed to prevent.

    So let's talk again about how ignorant I am and what a superior understanding you have of the situation.
     
  5. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    I have skimmed your OP CMM and for a start of this discussion let me ask you how you define Pro-Christian legislation?

    I would not define laws against abortion, euthanasia or homosexuality as Pro-Christian. I would agree that the Christian community overwhelmingly supports these bills, but they would not be "Pro-Christian" as I would define them. Pro-Christian legislation would be the promotion of Christian ideals or churches, requiring tax dollars be given to Christian churches or the likes.

    Just because legislation is backed by Christians does not make it "Pro-Christian" legislation in my point of view.

    Immie
     
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  6. AllieBaba
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    There's the rub.

    The left wants Christians silenced, and wants the majority marginalized, so they can march forward with their progressive, secular and communist agenda.
     
  7. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Wrong. Forcing others to live by Christian values when they aren't Christian, is violating freedom of religion. Get it. Pretty simple.

    Where are these mystery bills or laws? Which laws say you can't be religious and run for office? We're talking about the United States right?

    It's a violation of freedom of religion, and is the very thing the whole "separation of church and state" concept was supposed to prevent.[/QUOTE]

    Ri-i-i-i-ght.:eusa_eh:

    Okay. You're really ignorant of this situation, or I should say you're delusional and therefore I, by default, have a better understanding of it.
     
  8. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    I have to disagree with this statement, CMM.

    The truth of the matter is that any legislation is the attempt to force others to live by the proponents moral outlook. So, if I promote a bill that makes speaking on the cell phone while driving a crime because it is dangerous to other citizens, I am promoting my morals over the idiot's morals who is driving down the freeway, talking on his cell phone weaving in and out of three different lanes doing 48 mph in a 70 mph zone.

    Legislation is based upon morals. The fact that Christians support certain legislation does not make that legislation "Pro-Christian".

    Immie
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  9. Coloradomtnman
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    Coloradomtnman Rational and proud of it.

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    Well, perhpas I should've entitled the thread "Christian-values based legislation versus Secular Legislation".

    I would say you're right. Those laws aren't Pro-Christian. Now making Church's tax exempt could be considered Pro-Christian, but then taxing them gives the government control over churches, so that isn't good either.

    Anyway, I agree with what you're saying above. The point of my OP was that there are Christian beliefs which are legislated or could-be legislated, for no other reason than that the bill was proposed by Christians and the majority of voters are Christian. This is a violation of separation of church and state.
     
  10. Immanuel
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    Immanuel Gold Member

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    Explain that last sentence please. It almost seems as if you would be thinking that since there are so many Christian in this country they should not be allowed to vote because of their faith and voting while being faithful is a violation of the separation of church and state.

    I know you are not saying that, but it comes close.

    I think post #8 kind of highlights my thinking on the legislation of morals. It was posted while you were typing your response to my first post.

    Immie
     

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