POLL: The GOP and "Socialism"

[initforme]

What are you going to cut? Don't touch SS.

 

[Mac1958]

The GOP could make one (1) simple change to be taken seriously on fiscal matters: Cut spending before you cut taxes. Go ahead and campaign on cutting Medicare and Social Security and Medicaid and Welfare and this department and that department, all while leaving the military alone. Let's see how well you do. I'm sure you'll do great. Then, make those cuts for all to see. Then you can cut those taxes.

What are you going to cut? Don't touch SS.

Hey, ask the GOP. They're the party of fiscal responsibility.
.

 

[forkup]

Is Venezuela the only example of socialism? Can you think of any others?
.

Non Marxist-Leninist Socialist Countries

• Bangladesh (1971-)
• Guinea-Bissau (1973-)
• Guyana (1980-)
• India (1976-)
• North Korea (1992-)
• Nepal (2015-)
• Portugal (1976-)
• Sao Tome (1975-)
• Sri Lanka (1985-)
• Tanzania (1964-)
• Algeria (1963-1989)
• Burma (1962-1988)

Former Non Marxist-Leninist Socialist Countries

• Cape Verde (1975-1992)
• Egypt (1958-2007)
• Iraq (1968-2003)
• Libya (1969-2011)
• Madagascar (1975-1992)
• Sudan (1973-1985)
• Syria (1963-2012)

Former Marxist-Leninist Countries

• Afghanistan (1978-1992)
• Albania (1946-1992)
• Angola (1975-1992)
• Benin (1975-1990)
• Bulgaria (1946-1990)
• Cambodia (1975-1989)
• Congo (1975-1992)
• Czechoslovakia (1946-1990)
• Ethiopia (1974-1991)
• East Germany (1949-1990)
• Hungary) (1949-1989)
• North Korea 1948-1992 (in 1992, all references to Marxist-Leninism were scrubbed. Remains generic "socialist" state)
• Mongolia (1924-1990)
• Mozambique (1975-1990) (my mom who is Portuguese lived here during this time)
• Poland (1945-1989)
• Romania (1947-1989)
• Somalia (1969-1991)
• Soviet Union (1922-1991)
• North Vietnam (1945-1975) (then they won the war)
• South Yemen (1967-1990)
• Ukraine (1919-1991)
• Yugoslavia (1945-1992)

Current Marxist-Leninist countries include:

• China (soft-landing)
• Cuba (in progress)
• Laos (80% of population works in agriculture, one of the lowest annual incomes of any country in the world. 1/3 earn below $1.25 per day)
• Vietnam (I'm sure the government here is very much aware I just googled this to get that wikipedia page) (soft-landing)

Great!

I don't see Germany or Sweden on there. Are they socialist?
.

In the 1990s Swedes began to realize what socialism and statism were doing to the quality of life in their country. As a result, they elected Sweden’s first conservative government since the end of World War II. Knowing precisely what needed to be done to pull their nation back from the abyss of economic ruin, Sweden’s new conservative government quickly went to work cutting taxes on businesses and individuals. Things began to change for the better almost immediately. Consider the following improvements Sweden has enjoyed since beginning the long, hard road back from socialism and statism (data provided by the NCPA):

Between 1993 and 2010, Sweden’s GDP growth exceeded that of the rest of Europe by one full percentage point. Further, by 2010 public debt had dropped to 37 percent of GDP and taxes on businesses had been decreased to 22 percent (compare this with the 36 percent rate in the United States).

Sweden’s political leaders transformed the nation’s retirement pension system from a defined-benefit system into a defined contribution system, thereby saving it from inevitable insolvency.

The Swedish Fiscal Policy Council was established and empowered to independently monitor and evaluate government fiscal policy. The Council’s most current recommendation is that Sweden raise its retirement age to protect the long-term solvency of the nation’s retirement system.

Sweden Leads The Way In Dumping Socialism | BWCentral

LMFAO!

Ah, yes, conservative Sweden.

Universal healthcare

Tuition free college

Mandatory two years of PAID leave for new moms and dads

Powerful and influential unions

A high minimum wage

Damn man, gimme some of that conservatism!

Sweden National Debt Clock :: National Debt Clocks

United States Gross Federal Debt to GDP | 1940-2018 | Data | Chart
Sweden national debt 39.58 percent of GDP
United States national debt 105.4 percent of GDP

 

[initforme]

Social security is one of the greatest things this nation has ever produced.

 

[Crepitus]

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

You don't understand what socialism is.

 

[Confounding]

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

You don't understand what socialism is.

VENEZUELA!@!@!

 

[Maxdeath]

There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

Yep. I would think that a reasonable person would understand that this all lies along a continuum, that you're not either "socialist" or "not socialist". But it sure does seem like there are a lot of people who can't seem to grasp that.
.

You can put any label you want on it. Socialism, communism, completely crazy. It really does not matter. The problem with a lot of the so called ideas of free healthcare, free college, free guarantee income is you have to convince the American people that they need to pay 50% income tax to have all these great ideas. That is 50% no matter if you make $10.00 or ten million. No graduated scale. That is going to be a hard sell when people are already complaining that they did not get a big enough tax cut. States and cities are suing because their constituents did not get enough of a tax write off so that those cities and states can raise their taxes.

You can always try and increase the taxes paid by corporations but we all know the outcome of that is to watch companies either leave or leave cash off shore. Besides the fact that even that would not be enough.

I always hear the uninformed talk about taking from the military. They seldom have any real idea but take money from them not where to take it from and how that would affect things.

So that puts things back to either high personal income tax or go deeper in debt faster.

 

[Confounding]

There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

Yep. I would think that a reasonable person would understand that this all lies along a continuum, that you're not either "socialist" or "not socialist". But it sure does seem like there are a lot of people who can't seem to grasp that.
.

You can put any label you want on it. Socialism, communism, completely crazy. It really does not matter. The problem with a lot of the so called ideas of free healthcare, free college, free guarantee income is you have to convince the American people that they need to pay 50% income tax to have all these great ideas. That is 50% no matter if you make $10.00 or ten million. No graduated scale. That is going to be a hard sell when people are already complaining that they did not get a big enough tax cut. States and cities are suing because their constituents did not get enough of a tax write off so that those cities and states can raise their taxes.

You can always try and increase the taxes paid by corporations but we all know the outcome of that is to watch companies either leave or leave cash off shore. Besides the fact that even that would not be enough.

I always hear the uninformed talk about taking from the military. They seldom have any real idea but take money from them not where to take it from and how that would affect things.

So that puts things back to either high personal income tax or go deeper in debt faster.

In Sweden only well off people pay more than 30% in taxes.

 

[Maxdeath]

There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

Yep. I would think that a reasonable person would understand that this all lies along a continuum, that you're not either "socialist" or "not socialist". But it sure does seem like there are a lot of people who can't seem to grasp that.
.

You can put any label you want on it. Socialism, communism, completely crazy. It really does not matter. The problem with a lot of the so called ideas of free healthcare, free college, free guarantee income is you have to convince the American people that they need to pay 50% income tax to have all these great ideas. That is 50% no matter if you make $10.00 or ten million. No graduated scale. That is going to be a hard sell when people are already complaining that they did not get a big enough tax cut. States and cities are suing because their constituents did not get enough of a tax write off so that those cities and states can raise their taxes.

You can always try and increase the taxes paid by corporations but we all know the outcome of that is to watch companies either leave or leave cash off shore. Besides the fact that even that would not be enough.

I always hear the uninformed talk about taking from the military. They seldom have any real idea but take money from them not where to take it from and how that would affect things.

So that puts things back to either high personal income tax or go deeper in debt faster.

In Sweden only well off people pay more than 30% in taxes.

First off do not know where you got that number but here is the true numbers. Sweden Personal Income Tax Rate | 1995-2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar

And Sweden was about to go under until about ten years ago when they began to implement capitalistic policies.

 

[JoeB131]

It's funny that whenever socialism is brought up, social security is also brought up as a glorious example.

Yet, this program is over 20 trillions in debt, because of the Ponzi scheme financing.

Well, no, it's 20 Trillion in future obligations because the rich aren't paying their fair share and old people are living longer. Oh, that and we aren't bringing in enough new workers to replace the ones that retire or fairly distributing the wealth to the ones we did have.

But do go on about how the most successful poverty alleviation plan in history is a "failure'.

 

[debbiedowner]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

I voted not in my lifetime. I would venture to guess that sometime in their life have been on the receiving end of what their definition of socialism is, either by city, county, state or Federal government.

 

[debbiedowner]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

"Not in this lifetime, pal."

If there is a more unifying rallying call for conservatives against the American Left, politically speaking not culturally, I challenge you to find it. Once again, so-called elite American liberal intellectualism gets the American Left into water so hot it boils, socially and academically. I will never understand the postmodernist American Left's failed philosophical political strategy of attempting to "think away" the bad or downright evil from a downright evil social proposition. You cannot rewrite history, just as you cannot lie to and successfully fool tens of millions of Americans with on demand access to online historical information.

Those intellectual Leftists who lie to the American people about what socialism really is might can get away with announcing publicly American popular support for it, but you all wannabe Marxist piggy banks will break most shatteringly at the polls. Thing is, you keep trying, historically, to wrap the same gift of utter shit in a different, more attractive holiday paper replete with a more attractive ribbon. Shame.

Mister Mystery Guest Marxist,

If you want to find something every last patriotic American will pick up the sword to put back in its historical place, join the neo-push for American socialism. The sound of the movement pop-splattering under mechanized treads will be heard nationwide. Proceed. Please.

Like there isn't any elite conservatives? You guys throw this term around way too much where it doesn't really mean a damn thing.

 

[dblack]

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

How long before the left realizes it should?

 

[initforme]

Social security is one of the most successful things we have done to help build the nation.

 

[debbiedowner]

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

I agree SS is and is not socialist but that is not what your comrades thing. Anyone drawing that never paid in are receiving socialistic benefits.

 

[Desperado]

There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

Yep. I would think that a reasonable person would understand that this all lies along a continuum, that you're not either "socialist" or "not socialist". But it sure does seem like there are a lot of people who can't seem to grasp that.
.

You can put any label you want on it. Socialism, communism, completely crazy. It really does not matter. The problem with a lot of the so called ideas of free healthcare, free college, free guarantee income is you have to convince the American people that they need to pay 50% income tax to have all these great ideas. That is 50% no matter if you make $10.00 or ten million. No graduated scale. That is going to be a hard sell when people are already complaining that they did not get a big enough tax cut. States and cities are suing because their constituents did not get enough of a tax write off so that those cities and states can raise their taxes.

You can always try and increase the taxes paid by corporations but we all know the outcome of that is to watch companies either leave or leave cash off shore. Besides the fact that even that would not be enough.

I always hear the uninformed talk about taking from the military. They seldom have any real idea but take money from them not where to take it from and how that would affect things.

So that puts things back to either high personal income tax or go deeper in debt faster.

In Sweden only well off people pay more than 30% in taxes.

In Sweden they don't have a military that polices the world not to mention that their population is quite a smaller than the US

 

[debbiedowner]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

Actually social security only has money issues because every president borrows from it to finance government spending. In truth it's quite successful.

No president has ever borrowed from social security to finance government. Funds collected are first used to pay current benefits, and any remaining funds are automatically deposited in the general account and spent by congress. It has been that way since the program was established. The only thing that the social security fund has ever held has been IOU's from the congress.

Wrong, better do some research 2nd gulf war.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Mango really isn't all that but if you are determined to stick it in your butt who am I to stop you?

 

[night_son]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

"Not in this lifetime, pal."

If there is a more unifying rallying call for conservatives against the American Left, politically speaking not culturally, I challenge you to find it. Once again, so-called elite American liberal intellectualism gets the American Left into water so hot it boils, socially and academically. I will never understand the postmodernist American Left's failed philosophical political strategy of attempting to "think away" the bad or downright evil from a downright evil social proposition. You cannot rewrite history, just as you cannot lie to and successfully fool tens of millions of Americans with on demand access to online historical information.

Those intellectual Leftists who lie to the American people about what socialism really is might can get away with announcing publicly American popular support for it, but you all wannabe Marxist piggy banks will break most shatteringly at the polls. Thing is, you keep trying, historically, to wrap the same gift of utter shit in a different, more attractive holiday paper replete with a more attractive ribbon. Shame.

Mister Mystery Guest Marxist,

If you want to find something every last patriotic American will pick up the sword to put back in its historical place, join the neo-push for American socialism. The sound of the movement pop-splattering under mechanized treads will be heard nationwide. Proceed. Please.

Like there isn't any elite conservatives? You guys throw this term around way too much where it doesn't really mean a damn thing.

All a matter of your dialectic subscription for evolving logic to convolute or simplify reality or whether your philosophical historical heroes were protégés of ideological founders who humanized or dehumanized the conundrum of the human condition and human nature. Are you a Plato and Socrates dialectic logistician or a Hegelian one?

 

[WillowTree]

Stop with the racist bullshit!

Stop being stupid.

Stop being racist!

I can't stop being racist until you stop being stupid.

Stop being a racist.

Get outta here whitey.

You can get away with that here because you are a racist libtard. A conservative would be banned for it. You are still a low down dirty scum sucking racist!