Political correctness

[PixieStix]

And again, I am not asking anyone to like me. That is irrelevent to this discussion.

Have I posted "UNPC" posts? I have a set of standards that has nothing to do with PC

I believe I have a pretty ok reputation concerning kindness, and not being rude

You said this:

It should be my choice whether I want to be unkind and gruff, or kind and thoughtful.

Nobody is taking away your choice of whether to be unkind or kind. I'm not even going to bother focusing on the rest of "It's bad for America due to my reasoning and therefore we should avoid it at all costs!" argument that is thrown around constantly. However, just like you have a right to be kind or unkind, people have a right to like you or dislike you for it. That's my point.

Yes, they have that right, and I for one would like for them to keep that right. But PC is not done with us yet, that is my point.

 

[PixieStix]

You are the one who started the "judgmental" stuff.

It should be my choice whether I want to be unkind and gruff, or kind and thoughtful. PC is dangerous to freedom no matter how you slice it. Just try to think about the reason the USA is what she is. Like no other nation on earth. Please just do us that one favor. Our lives and freedoms are in the hands of your generation and some day you may have children, that will ask you, why they cannot speak against the government

Nobody says you can't be unkind and gruff. However, people have a right to not like you because of it. What you're asking for is for people to go against their own views and like you for being a complete asshole. That's not very American of you.

If anything, our Founding Fathers time was a lot more PC than it is now. So I don't know what the hell you're smoking. As for speaking out against the government, what the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with being politically correct.

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Thought terminating cliche's is what those words are. But those who speak them, do it almost automatically, because PC has become almost a religion in and of itself

 

[LuckyDan]

Nobody says you can't be unkind and gruff. However, people have a right to not like you because of it. What you're asking for is for people to go against their own views and like you for being a complete asshole. That's not very American of you.

If anything, our Founding Fathers time was a lot more PC than it is now. So I don't know what the hell you're smoking. As for speaking out against the government, what the hell are you talking about? That has nothing to do with being politically correct.

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Thought terminating cliche's is what those words are. But those who speak them, do it almost automatically, because PC has become almost a religion in and of itself

True - and the social pressure to be seen as tolerant.

 

[Modbert]

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Actually, that's just America. That goes far beyond PCness.

 

[LuckyDan]

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Actually, that's just America. That goes far beyond PCness.

Can't agree, Mod. America at it's best allows for the exchange of ideas and open debate. Political Correctness says with it's very name that some ideas or just plain wrong and unworthy of anything above derision.

For that reason it's prevalence in the Universities has stifled debate; and in the workplace, the slightest off-the-cuff remark can lead to calls to home office to make sure it isn't actionable.

 

[Ringel05]

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Thought terminating cliche's is what those words are. But those who speak them, do it almost automatically, because PC has become almost a religion in and of itself

True - and the social pressure to be seen as tolerant.

Unfortunately you ask most kids what tolerant means and the tell you "agreement and acceptance".

 

[Modbert]

True - and the social pressure to be seen as tolerant.

Again, that's America for you. Times change. Not too long ago, there was social pressure to be seen as racist. Otherwise you'd be called a n word lover and even be disowned by your family.

Personally, (and this is just me speaking for myself personally) I'd rather live in a society that strives to be tolerant instead of a society that strives to be racist. Two opposite extremes of the spectrum as I previously stated, yes, however if I had to choose, that'd be the one. Especially since people don't want to discuss this like adults and like to pout with their arms folded in the corner because everyone else is not acting like them.

 

[Modbert]

Unfortunately you ask most kids what tolerant means and the tell you "agreement and acceptance".

What the hell kids are you talking to? Furthermore, why are you asking kids what tolerance means and fully expect them to understand it?

Tolerance is about being able to accept others for who they are. That's not far off at all.

 

[Woyzeck]

That's PCness in a nutshell. It allows anyone to stand up and say, "I am offended by that term, or that idea." Whether the term is accurate, or the idea has merit, is of no importance - the offense is all that matters.

Don't like someone's opposition to same-sex marriage? Easy. Declare him a homophobe. A co-worker has a cheesecake calendar in their cubicle? Tell HR you find it offensive and it will be gone before lunch.

Actually, that's just America. That goes far beyond PCness.

Can't agree, Mod. America at it's best allows for the exchange of ideas and open debate. Political Correctness says with it's very name that some ideas or just plain wrong and unworthy of anything above derision.

For that reason it's prevalence in the Universities has stifled debate; and in the workplace, the slightest off-the-cuff remark can lead to calls to home office to make sure it isn't actionable.

It is my understanding that you are railing against political correctness because it forbids some ideas automatically from discussion and use. But aren't you doing the same to the idea of political correctness?

 

[Modbert]

Can't agree, Mod. America at it's best allows for the exchange of ideas and open debate. Political Correctness says with it's very name that some ideas or just plain wrong and unworthy of anything above derision.

For that reason it's prevalence in the Universities has stifled debate; and in the workplace, the slightest off-the-cuff remark can lead to calls to home office to make sure it isn't actionable.

Where the hell have you been? When have we lived in a period where a exchange of ideas and open debate was allowed for everyone? Hell, it hasn't even been one hundred years since we allowed women to vote. It's been not even fifty years since we allowed African Americans full rights to vote, etc. Even today, they have problems in some areas. Also, even today, a exchange of ideas and open debate for everyone is not wanted by all. Heck, I see people all the time saying either Liberals shouldn't be able to vote or Conservatives.

I don't know where the hell you live or what kind of life you lived, but you couldn't be more wrong. I go to a college (GASP, I'm the enemy!), and I've had nothing but great professors who were open to debate on various topics. The ones who aren't open to debate on topics where it applies, are bad professors. You seem to be taking the worst of something, and proping it up as the rule instead of the exemption.

 

[Ringel05]

Unfortunately you ask most kids what tolerant means and the tell you "agreement and acceptance".

What the hell kids are you talking to? Furthermore, why are you asking kids what tolerance means and fully expect them to understand it?

Tolerance is about being able to accept others for who they are. That's not far off at all.

You just verified what I said. Tolerant means you admit the difference but don't necessarily want to have anything to do with them or even like them.
You accept the fact they are different but don't necessarily accept the difference. It's kinda like agreeing to disagree, you stay in your corner and I'll stay in mine, you don't mess with me and I won't mess with you.

 

[Modbert]

You just verified what I said. Tolerant means you admit the difference but don't necessarily want to have anything to do with them or even like them.
You accept the fact they are different but don't necessarily accept the difference. It's kinda like agreeing to disagree, you stay in your corner and I'll stay in mine, you don't mess with me and I won't mess with you.

That's tolerance and compromise at the same time. You accept the fact that someone is a racist, however, that doesn't mean you have to be their friend or accept them as a regular part of your life. Tolerance in a nutshell is not trying to kill or harass someone for their beliefs.

 

[LuckyDan]

Actually, that's just America. That goes far beyond PCness.

Can't agree, Mod. America at it's best allows for the exchange of ideas and open debate. Political Correctness says with it's very name that some ideas or just plain wrong and unworthy of anything above derision.

For that reason it's prevalence in the Universities has stifled debate; and in the workplace, the slightest off-the-cuff remark can lead to calls to home office to make sure it isn't actionable.

It is my understanding that you are railing against political correctness because it forbids some ideas automatically from discussion and use. But aren't you doing the same to the idea of political correctness?

Well I'm trying to, yes.

PC has been successfully ridiculed to the point of playing no role in the real world, outside of the workplace where speech is carefully guarded, and the University.

 

[LuckyDan]

Can't agree, Mod. America at it's best allows for the exchange of ideas and open debate. Political Correctness says with it's very name that some ideas or just plain wrong and unworthy of anything above derision.

For that reason it's prevalence in the Universities has stifled debate; and in the workplace, the slightest off-the-cuff remark can lead to calls to home office to make sure it isn't actionable.

Where the hell have you been? When have we lived in a period where a exchange of ideas and open debate was allowed for everyone? Hell, it hasn't even been one hundred years since we allowed women to vote. It's been not even fifty years since we allowed African Americans full rights to vote, etc. Even today, they have problems in some areas. Also, even today, a exchange of ideas and open debate for everyone is not wanted by all. Heck, I see people all the time saying either Liberals shouldn't be able to vote or Conservatives.

I don't know where the hell you live or what kind of life you lived, but you couldn't be more wrong. I go to a college (GASP, I'm the enemy!), and I've had nothing but great professors who were open to debate on various topics. The ones who aren't open to debate on topics where it applies, are bad professors. You seem to be taking the worst of something, and proping it up as the rule instead of the exemption.

Those are the ones I'm talking about. I see you've come across one or two.

 

[Ringel05]

You just verified what I said. Tolerant means you admit the difference but don't necessarily want to have anything to do with them or even like them.
You accept the fact they are different but don't necessarily accept the difference. It's kinda like agreeing to disagree, you stay in your corner and I'll stay in mine, you don't mess with me and I won't mess with you.

That's tolerance and compromise at the same time. You accept the fact that someone is a racist, however, that doesn't mean you have to be their friend or accept them as a regular part of your life. Tolerance in a nutshell is not trying to kill or harass someone for their beliefs.

Look a 1.1 and 1.2 of the UN declaration of what tolerance means especially the first sentence in 1.2 - it is a false statement of tolerance.
Many kids these days have accepted this concept of tolerance as the correct definition. It is not.


United Nations definition of TOLERANCE
June 24th 2008 11:16
The Declaration of Principles on Tolerance was proclaimed and signed by the Member States of UNESCO on 16 November 1995. The declaration was signed by the Member States of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) at the twenty-eighth session of the General Conference in Paris.

Article 1 - Meaning of tolerance

1.1 Tolerance is respect, acceptance and appreciation of the rich diversity of our world's
cultures, our forms of expression and ways of being human. It is fostered by knowledge, openness, communication, and freedom of thought, conscience and belief. Tolerance is harmony in difference. It is not only a moral duty, it is also a political and legal requirement. Tolerance, the virtue that makes peace possible, contributes to the replacement of the culture of war by a culture of peace.

1.2 Tolerance is not concession, condescension or indulgence. Tolerance is, above all, an active attitude prompted by recognition of the universal human rights and fundamental freedoms of others. In no circumstance can it be used to justify infringements of these fundamental values. Tolerance is to be exercised by individuals, groups and States.

1.3 Tolerance is the responsibility that upholds human rights, pluralism (including cultural pluralism), democracy and the rule of law. It involves the rejection of dogmatism and absolutism and affirms the standards set out in international human rights instruments.

1.4 Consistent with respect for human rights, the practice of tolerance does not mean toleration of social injustice or the abandonment or weakening of one's convictions. It means that one is free to adhere to one's own convictions and accepts that others adhere to theirs. It means accepting the fact that human beings, naturally diverse in their appearance, situation, speech, behaviour and values, have the right to live in peace and to be as they are. It also means that one's views are not to be imposed on others.

 

[Modbert]

Those are the ones I'm talking about. I see you've come across one or two.

Of course. Everyone's had a bad teacher, co-worker, boss, girlfriend, etc. However, I'm not going to let that one bad professor ruin my opinion of all of them.

 

[Stainmaster]

Actually with certain friends of mine I do exactly that, we have several times gone through the spectrum of honky and ****** names thrown at each other, usually while laughing our asses off. once it starts it seems to continue until one of the wives puts an end to it. Is it racist? Not a bit.

This from Ollie who swears he is not racist, nor a Tea Bagger. Is he a Republican, or a conservative? Give them enough rope, and they will hang themselves. Ollie just outed himself.

Grow the fuck up dumb ass. You think I can't talk like that with my friends who happen to be black? You must live a very fucked up life.

You just gave a big speech about political correctness. Now you perpetuate the use of racist words, but write it off as jest. You defend Tea Baggers in every thread on that subject, but you never have a comment when Tea Baggers carry signs using the "N" word. You have outed yourself BIG TIME.

Who knows, maybe you are one of those guys who is a racist, and don't even know it. Now with your avatar and signature covered with military logos, and mentioning at every opportunity that you are a big shot in the American Legion, you can drag the NSA and Legion down in the racist hole with you.

If it sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck, it's a racist!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^​

 

[Sheldon]

Look a 1.1 and 1.2 of the UN declaration of what tolerance means especially the first sentence in 1.2 - it is a false statement of tolerance.
Many kids these days have accepted this concept of tolerance as the correct definition. It is not.


...

Article 1 - Meaning of tolerance

1.1 Tolerance is respect, acceptance and appreciation of the rich diversity of our world's
cultures, our forms of expression and ways of being human. It is fostered by knowledge, openness, communication, and freedom of thought, conscience and belief. Tolerance is harmony in difference. It is not only a moral duty, it is also a political and legal requirement. Tolerance, the virtue that makes peace possible, contributes to the replacement of the culture of war by a culture of peace.

South Park drew an excellent distinction between tolerance and acceptance. I think it was an episode where the characters got sent to the Death Camp for Intolerance.

"Tolerant, but not stupid! Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it! ..."Tolerate" means you're just putting up with it! You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane or, or you tolerate a bad cold. It can still piss you off!"

 

[ABikerSailor]

Wanna know what the real problem is with PC?

No real passion or feeling. Everything in PC speech is so pablumized and whitewashed that you can't really tell how someone truly feels.

It's also a good way for the politicos to lie to us.

 

[Zoom-boing]

We were in the family room the other day. The 13 year old turns on Cartoon Network. The 19 year old decides to bug her and asks why she's watching such a retarded cartoon (it was, btw). The 13 year old tells her to stop using bad words. Bad words? Retarded is a bad word? I told the 13 year old it wasn't a bad word, it was a descriptive word and it was accurate in this case. wth does this 'bad word' crap come from??

Same 13 year old tells me that the principal at her school tells some girls that their shorts are too short and they must change while others (whose shorts are also too short if not moreso, according to my kid) get a free pass. I was puzzled and started asking her lots of questions like are the kids not getting told to change their shorts on the same team or class or whatever. Nope was the answer. Just out of curiosity I asked what color they were. Instead of just saying 'black' or 'not white' she said 'the same color as the principal (who is black).' My 13 year old is somehow under the impression that calling a black person 'black' is wrong! I can tell you for sure she never learned that in this house . . . . we speak plainly here without any 'PC' bullshit. I don't go out of my way to offend but I call a spade a spade.