Parents of dying 10-year-old girl challenge organ donor rule

[FA_Q2]

A boy in the same hospital just had his parents get the same judge to sign the same order for him.

Judge's ruling puts 2nd child in line for adult lungs - CNN.com

Once these decisions escape medical care and become legal matters, the entire transplant process is threatened.

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A boy in the same hospital just had his parents get the same judge to sign the same order for him.

Judge's ruling puts 2nd child in line for adult lungs - CNN.com

Once these decisions escape medical care and become legal matters, the entire transplant process is threatened.

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

 

[FA_Q2]

A boy in the same hospital just had his parents get the same judge to sign the same order for him.

Judge's ruling puts 2nd child in line for adult lungs - CNN.com

Once these decisions escape medical care and become legal matters, the entire transplant process is threatened.

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

Interesting. I did not gather that when I read the link. I thought he was just allowing the child onto the list, not screwing with the priority. That being the case, I would agree. I don’t think a judge, as a non-medical professional, should have anything to do with how patents are categorized. I guess that would even be the case if all he had done was put her on the list as well then so I guess you are right.

That does bring another thing to the floor though – do you think that anyone in her position should get a lung anyway? The condition is not curable so in essence the lung is essentially wasted. It gives her another 5 years where it could give another patent decades.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

Interesting. I did not gather that when I read the link. I thought he was just allowing the child onto the list, not screwing with the priority. That being the case, I would agree. I don’t think a judge, as a non-medical professional, should have anything to do with how patents are categorized. I guess that would even be the case if all he had done was put her on the list as well then so I guess you are right.

That does bring another thing to the floor though – do you think that anyone in her position should get a lung anyway? The condition is not curable so in essence the lung is essentially wasted. It gives her another 5 years where it could give another patent decades.

This is where it gets tough. The rules were developed to give everyone equal access, so the disease that caused the underlying problem is usually ignored, which is probably not the best approach, but I wouldn't want to tell someone who has cystic fibrosis that they cannot get a life extending operation because they will end up dead faster than a person who doesn't have the disease.

The underlying problem is the supply of organs. Most organ donor cards are useless for organ transplants because very few people are thoughtful enough to die in a hospital in such a way that their body keeps functioning after they are legally dead. Even if organ donation was made mandatory the supply of organs would still be limited to people who die of brain trauma inside a hospital.

This is a pretty good piece which delves into some of the problems.

Sick Girl May Get a Lung but It's Not a Happy Ending - Bloomberg

 

[Katzndogz]

New York has a program that will dispatch organ preservation ambulances to cases like accidents, strokes or heart attacks. The problem is, when that ambulance arrives, you have no idea whether it's to save your life or make sure you die with viable organs.

The first criteria in considering a transplant is the success of the operation. Five years of extended life is considered the success because no one is going to live forever. Even though Sarah won't live to see Sweet 16, if her doctors think she will make it to 15, that's enough of a success. Someone else getting a lung transplant might live to old age. This too is not a consideration. My husband was 70 when we were undergoing the evaluation for a liver transplant. The evaluation alone takes over a year. We were only 8 months in when he passed.

 

[Immanuel]

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

Interesting. I did not gather that when I read the link. I thought he was just allowing the child onto the list, not screwing with the priority. That being the case, I would agree. I don’t think a judge, as a non-medical professional, should have anything to do with how patents are categorized. I guess that would even be the case if all he had done was put her on the list as well then so I guess you are right.

That does bring another thing to the floor though – do you think that anyone in her position should get a lung anyway? The condition is not curable so in essence the lung is essentially wasted. It gives her another 5 years where it could give another patent decades.

While I agree with the points you make, the 5 years thing does raise one question though... what if in 3.5 years someone comes up with a cure for the disease she has and those extra 5 years would have bought her enough time to defeat this disease?

I do not believe she should get the lungs at the expense of another candidate who would have gotten those lungs under the transplant rules, but I can sure as heck understand her parents doing everything they can think of to fight for her cause.

I pray the best for them.

Immie

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

How about an adult of say...25? Have they "lived" enough?

I am 29 years old. If I knew that there was a young child who was also a match for the lungs that I was about to receive, I would allow him/her to take them first. I may be young, but I have seen a lot more of life than a young kid.

Big talk.

 

[Katzndogz]

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

Interesting. I did not gather that when I read the link. I thought he was just allowing the child onto the list, not screwing with the priority. That being the case, I would agree. I don’t think a judge, as a non-medical professional, should have anything to do with how patents are categorized. I guess that would even be the case if all he had done was put her on the list as well then so I guess you are right.

That does bring another thing to the floor though – do you think that anyone in her position should get a lung anyway? The condition is not curable so in essence the lung is essentially wasted. It gives her another 5 years where it could give another patent decades.

While I agree with the points you make, the 5 years thing does raise one question though... what if in 3.5 years someone comes up with a cure for the disease she has and those extra 5 years would have bought her enough time to defeat this disease?

I do not believe she should get the lungs at the expense of another candidate who would have gotten those lungs under the transplant rules, but I can sure as heck understand her parents doing everything they can think of to fight for her cause.

I pray the best for them.

Immie

That's the big hope. Hang on and maybe there will be a cure.

I don't blame her parents, I'd do the same thing myself. This case has no winners, only varying degrees of losers. Right now her parents are praying for the death of some innocent person who would be a match.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

I asked this before and no one commented:

Someone brought up a good point. Why doesn't the mother donate a lung for her daughter? People can live with one lung.

I know that people can live with one lung, but is there a particular reason they won't replace two diseased lungs with one good lung? That would kind of help with the space issue in a child.

I Googled a bit and couldn't find an answer to this specific question.

 

[Political Junky]

Judge allows 10 year old to receive adult lung for transplant | WJLA.com

 

[Quantum Windbag]

New York has a program that will dispatch organ preservation ambulances to cases like accidents, strokes or heart attacks. The problem is, when that ambulance arrives, you have no idea whether it's to save your life or make sure you die with viable organs.

The first criteria in considering a transplant is the success of the operation. Five years of extended life is considered the success because no one is going to live forever. Even though Sarah won't live to see Sweet 16, if her doctors think she will make it to 15, that's enough of a success. Someone else getting a lung transplant might live to old age. This too is not a consideration. My husband was 70 when we were undergoing the evaluation for a liver transplant. The evaluation alone takes over a year. We were only 8 months in when he passed.

I was being generous, the doctors say it will give her two to three years. I think she should be excluded from consideration under those circumstances, but I didn't write the rules.

 

[syrenn]

Why?

The rules were pretty straight forward – they don’t get a lung unless there are NO ADULTS that need it. I don’t see how that threatens anyone at all.

It is also why it is rare for that to even work.

That wasn't what the judges order said.

Keep in mind that every single time anyone gets a lung transplant someone else on the list dies, and that doctors estimate that, even with the transplant, this girl will not live long enough to have a Sweet 16 party. Do you honestly want judges interfering with the process in order to put people who have more money, or a better sob story, ahead of others?

The process is already screwed up in that it is biased in favor of people who are sicker, and thus less likely to survive. There is no way to make it fair, so the best thing to do, in my opinion, is develop rules that make sense, and then ignore the people that cry about how unfair it is.

Life sucks, then you die.

Interesting. I did not gather that when I read the link. I thought he was just allowing the child onto the list, not screwing with the priority. That being the case, I would agree. I don’t think a judge, as a non-medical professional, should have anything to do with how patents are categorized. I guess that would even be the case if all he had done was put her on the list as well then so I guess you are right.

That does bring another thing to the floor though – do you think that anyone in her position should get a lung anyway? The condition is not curable so in essence the lung is essentially wasted. It gives her another 5 years where it could give another patent decades.

that person is on the transplant list. If the lung in question is the best match for someone even if they are going to die, and no one is on the list in front of them then they should get the lung.

wasting a lung is not an option. So if it goes into someone who is going to die anyway, it still matches and buys them 5 years.

 

[Flopper]

Why does this little girl have to die? In fact, why do hundreds of people die everyday waiting for transplants? The answer is pretty simple. There are just not enough organs to go around. If you have not done so, consider being a donor and giving the greatest gift you can give, the gift of life and it won't cost a single cent.

organdonor.gov | Becoming a Donor

 

[Katzndogz]

I asked this before and no one commented:

Someone brought up a good point. Why doesn't the mother donate a lung for her daughter? People can live with one lung.

I know that people can live with one lung, but is there a particular reason they won't replace two diseased lungs with one good lung? That would kind of help with the space issue in a child.

I Googled a bit and couldn't find an answer to this specific question.

The mother might not be a match. Even so a transplant from a living donor is very dangerous for the donor. My husband's daughter wanted to donate liver tissue and they wouldn't do it.

 

[Katzndogz]

New York has a program that will dispatch organ preservation ambulances to cases like accidents, strokes or heart attacks. The problem is, when that ambulance arrives, you have no idea whether it's to save your life or make sure you die with viable organs.

The first criteria in considering a transplant is the success of the operation. Five years of extended life is considered the success because no one is going to live forever. Even though Sarah won't live to see Sweet 16, if her doctors think she will make it to 15, that's enough of a success. Someone else getting a lung transplant might live to old age. This too is not a consideration. My husband was 70 when we were undergoing the evaluation for a liver transplant. The evaluation alone takes over a year. We were only 8 months in when he passed.

I was being generous, the doctors say it will give her two to three years. I think she should be excluded from consideration under those circumstances, but I didn't write the rules.

Where did you hear two to three years? In all my classes, two or three years expected and she would never make the list at all.

 

[Political Junky]

A judge has ruled that she'll get her lungs. I posted it hours ago.

 

[jon_berzerk]

A judge has ruled that she'll get her lungs. I posted it hours ago.

not really

thr judge ruled that she can compete for lungs

from the adult pool

 

[syrenn]

A judge has ruled that she'll get her lungs. I posted it hours ago.

and judges should have zero say in medical issues of this kind.

sad to say they have set a bad precedent.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why does this little girl have to die? In fact, why do hundreds of people die everyday waiting for transplants? The answer is pretty simple. There are just not enough organs to go around. If you have not done so, consider being a donor and giving the greatest gift you can give, the gift of life and it won't cost a single cent.

organdonor.gov | Becoming a Donor

If organ donation was mandatory people would still be dying because most people die outside a hospital without massive brain trauma.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A judge has ruled that she'll get her lungs. I posted it hours ago.

A judge ruled that she be put on the adult list, we have been discussing that since yesterday when it happened. That does not mean she will get lungs, there are 146 adults on the list who have been there just as long.