O'Reilly's War on Xmas = Owned

[HorhayAtAMD]

This is an interesting story. Instead of putting the nativity scene across the street on a church's property, the town decided to add secular and jewish items to the nativity scene? Sounds like they are the ones trying to destroy Christmas to avoid horrible consequences like housing nativity scenes on church property!

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

This is another interesting story about the ACLU suing Jersey City to remove the display of a creche... AND the menorah. Looks like the ACLU won but lost on appeal. Here is a concrete example of the ACLU trying to remove the menorah from a public building.

ACLU v. Schundler

Jersey City mayor Bret Schundler retained us to defend an ACLU challenge to that city’s displays of a menorah and a crèche on City Hall grounds during the holiday season after receiving a memorandum prepared by The Becket Fund and sent to 400 mayors across the country describing our policy of representing, free of charge, any city that was sued for displaying such traditional religious seasonal presentations. Jersey City sought to display a menorah, a creche, a holiday tree, and a sign stating that this display was part of the broader celebration of diversity by the City held throughout the year. In Jersey City, there are City-sponsored celebrations ranging from Ramadan Remembrance Day, Hindu and Buddhist parades, an African-American art festival, and scores of other parades, festivals, proclamations and displays celebrating the varied cultures and ethnicities of the community.

On November 28, 1995, 931 F. Supp. 1180, the U.S. District Court in Newark ruled that the menorah, tree, creche and sign were unconstitutional. However, it held that the display was constitutional if it included a Santa Claus, a sleigh, and a snowman.

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[Max Power]

ohhhhh for example the ACLU demanding the removal of things like nativity scenes while ignoring symbols of other religions

That's not an example.

Are you kidding? Name one time they have said anything about any other kind of symbol for any holiday other than a Christian based holiday. One.

The ACLU has been after symbols of Christmas left and right. They recently raised hell about a nativity scene being on display, but failed to mention that to get to the nativity scene someone would have to walk by a Menorah, as well as two or three other non-Christian symbols.

Again, not an example.

But, HorhayAtAMD provided an example of one time they said something about a symbol for a holiday other than a Christian one.

:Owned:

Feel free to provide any examples as you find them. I doubt you'll find any examples of the ACLU demanding the removal of a nativity scene from private property.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

ACLU wins one, loses one. They tried to sue Pittsburgh to remove 2 displays: one a creche, the other a menorah. They originally won and both displays had to be removed but the supreme court reversed the decision about the menorah because it was displayed alongside other religious and secular items whereas the creche was by itself. You can disagree with the supreme court but the ACLU did try to have both displays removed.

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[Jimmyeatworld]

ACLU wins one, loses one. They tried to sue Pittsburgh to remove 2 displays: one a creche, the other a menorah. They originally won and both displays had to be removed but the supreme court reversed the decision about the menorah because it was displayed alongside other religious and secular items whereas the creche was by itself. You can disagree with the supreme court but the ACLU did try to have both displays removed.

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Okay, there are a couple of instances. But compared to how many concerning symbols celebrating Christmas? Before any comments, see below.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

While I think asking for an example of bias against symbols of Christmas is like asking for an example of the ocean being wet, I'll give one anyway. I heard about the story I brought up before on the radio and can't find a link, but here is another.

http://www.thomasmore.org/news.html?NewsID=135&PHPSESSID=22701a1c92a4c6833a6721a12078b529

ANN ARBOR, MI — The historical fact of the birth of Jesus was denied by the New York School system in pleadings filed with a federal court to justify their total ban on Christmas Nativity displays in New York’s public schools. New York’s legal briefs disputed the claim that the Nativity scene depicts a historical event, and that this event is the basis for the celebration of Christmas.
At issue in the federal lawsuit filed last year by the Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, is New York’s policy on religious displays, which prohibits public school displays of Christmas Nativity scenes, while at the same time encouraging the display of the Jewish Menorah and the Islamic star and crescent during their respective holidays. Federal Judge Sifton will hear oral arguments this week on the Law Center’s motion to temporarily restrain the City from enforcing its ban on Nativity scenes.

Pursuant to the policy, City schools display the Jewish Menorah and the Islamic star and crescent during Hanukkah and Ramadan, but not the Nativity scene during Christmas. One public school principal issued a memo encouraging teachers to bring to school “religious symbols” that represent the Islamic and Jewish religions. No mention of Christianity was made in this memo. At times, teachers would have students make the Jewish Menorahs that would often adorn the halls of the schools as part of the “authorized” displays. However, the students were not allowed to make and similarly display Nativity scenes. When a parent wrote to her son’s teacher to complain about this, the teacher responded by sending the parent a copy of the school’s “Holiday Displays” policy.

The federal civil rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros and her two children, who are both elementary school students in the New York City schools, against the City of New York and several school officials. Ms. Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.

Robert Muise, the Law Center attorney handling the case observed, “This case will decide whether public school officials can enforce a policy that shows preference for Judaism and Islam, but disfavors Christianity. Can Christianity be erased from a public school? Can “Christ” be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out.”

According to the Law Center’s motion, New York’s policy promotes the Jewish and Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution. The hearing on the motion is scheduled for Thursday, November 13, 2003, in the federal court in Brooklyn.

In December 2001 and again in 2002, Catholic League president William Donohue attempted to get school officials to change their discriminatory policy, with no success. School officials dismissed requests to display the Nativity scene and instead would only allow Christmas trees, erroneously claiming that Supreme Court precedent prohibited them from including the Nativity scene as part of their holiday displays. Remarkably, schools officials permit the display of the Jewish Menorah and Islamic star and crescent, claiming that these are “secular” symbols.

According to Richard Thompson, Chief Counsel and President of the Thomas More Law Center, “New York City’s policy seeks to de-Christianize Christmas and redefine our Nation’s religious heritage. The Thomas More Law Center is determined to protect the important celebration of Christmas from such discrimination and censorship. ”

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

ACLU wins one, loses one. They tried to sue Pittsburgh to remove 2 displays: one a creche, the other a menorah. They originally won and both displays had to be removed but the supreme court reversed the decision about the menorah because it was displayed alongside other religious and secular items whereas the creche was by itself. You can disagree with the supreme court but the ACLU did try to have both displays removed.

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I think it should be pointed out, this is an example of a 16 year odl decision, not anything that has been happening recently.

 

[archangel]

Do you have a link to that story? Do you have links to stories about public buildings that have put up any non Christian religious symbols? The ACLU couldn't ask for other religious symbols to be taken down if none are being put up.

Just search the net...full of examples..... :scratch:

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

That's not an example.


Again, not an example.

But, HorhayAtAMD provided an example of one time they said something about a symbol for a holiday other than a Christian one.

:Owned:

Feel free to provide any examples as you find them. I doubt you'll find any examples of the ACLU demanding the removal of a nativity scene from private property.

How about something within the last decade.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

This is another interesting story about the ACLU suing Jersey City to remove the display of a creche... AND the menorah. Looks like the ACLU won but lost on appeal. Here is a concrete example of the ACLU trying to remove the menorah from a public building.

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Just to cover all the bases, at least this one is within the last ten years...barely.

 

[manu1959]

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/aclu-case-sample-news.html

bottom of page....aclu fights to allow sikh's to wear knives to school...no nativty scene at that school though.....or christmas tree...

 

[Max Power]

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/aclu-case-sample-news.html

bottom of page....aclu fights to allow sikh's to wear knives to school...no nativty scene at that school though.....or christmas tree...

You're comparing apples and oranges.

How is what a student wears, comparable to what a school displays?

I'm sure the ACLU would protect Christians who wear crosses, and Jews who wear yamulkas.

Has the ACLU ever protected putting up a menorah on display on public property? No? They fight that... right.
Same for Muslim crap.

 

[Max Power]

http://www.thomasmore.org/news.html?NewsID=135&PHPSESSID=22701a1c92a4c6833a6721a12078b529

ANN ARBOR, MI — The historical fact of the birth of Jesus

ROFL That article is already bullshit.

 

[manu1959]

You're comparing apples and oranges.

How is what a student wears, comparable to what a school displays?

I'm sure the ACLU would protect Christians who wear crosses, and Jews who wear yamulkas.

Has the ACLU ever protected putting up a menorah on display on public property? No? They fight that... right.
Same for Muslim crap.

the child is weraing religious symbols while recieving goods and servcies on public property paid for by public funds.....i would imagine that my son could were the sword and tunic of the knights templar and my radical muslim neighbors an explosive vest

 

[007]

exactly. this actually looks like it was photoshopped. something on it doesn't look 'right'.

this so-called screen shot is likely

I totally agree. And if it is, somebody might be open for a quite a lawsuit.

 

[Max Power]

the child is weraing religious symbols while recieving goods and servcies on public property paid for by public funds.....i would imagine that my son could were the sword and tunic of the knights templar and my radical muslim neighbors an explosive vest

So what if he's wearing religious symbols while recieving goods and services on public property?
That does not constitute an establishment of religion.
That's like saying a kid wearing a Coors light t-shirt on school property is the same as the school selling beer.

A public institution putting a nativity scene on display is an establishment of religion.

It's that simple.

Just let the church's put up the nativity scenes, and leave it at that, okay? The ACLU will not bother them. I promise.

 

[Max Power]

I totally agree. And if it is, somebody might be open for a quite a lawsuit.

LOL Wishful thinking won't make it true.
The title of the linked web page still says "Holiday" on it instead of Christmas.

OOPS!

You go ahead and get started on that lawsuit though.

 

[Powerman]

I don't get it, even if it was changed from "Holidays" to "Christmas", how is that "PWND"? It says "Recommended Holiday Gifts" , not "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas". There are other holidays during this time....Hannaka, New Years....

Exactly. So when someone complains about someone telling them happy holidays they should get a swift kick to the nuts.

 

[manu1959]

Exactly. So when someone complains about someone telling them happy holidays they should get a swift kick to the nuts.

fine by me and if you don't say merry christmas to me i get to punch you in the throat....deal?

 

[manu1959]

So what if he's wearing religious symbols while recieving goods and services on public property?
That does not constitute an establishment of religion.
That's like saying a kid wearing a Coors light t-shirt on school property is the same as the school selling beer.

A public institution putting a nativity scene on display is an establishment of religion.

It's that simple.

Just let the church's put up the nativity scenes, and leave it at that, okay? The ACLU will not bother them. I promise.

you just don't want to see the descrimination against christianity...that's cool...i am sure you will be as neutral as sweden in WWII when basic fundemental building blocks of the US are further erroded

odd that you should say the beer thing my soon was sent home for wearing a micro brew hawaiian shirt yet the sikh kid got to wear his knife and the teacher that wore a cross was fired.....

btw.........puting in god we trust on our money is endorsement of religion.....having a federal holiday of christmas is endorsement of religion.....having your oath in court say so help me god is endorsement of religion....having an easter egg hunt on the east lawn is endorsement of religion....shall i go on?