Obama's Anti-Speciesists In Charge

[ima]

Vegetarians are better people than meat eaters, it's that simple.

 

[newpolitics]

Sentience is defined as the ability to feel or perceive.

Humans are the only beings on planet Earth with the ability to perceive.

Some may claim that Dolphins, African Grey parrots, or Chimps demonstrate rudementary perception, but then, we don't eat any of these creatures.

Animals are sentient creatures, by definition.

False, by your own definition.



The problem here is that you're mentally ill. You engage in something known as "transference." You transfer thoughts and emotions that you experience onto animals and inanimate objects.



ROFL



No, I understand that when I buy beef it came from a COW. And that cows are a cloven, grazing animal that occupies the portion of the food chain know as "prey."

You can tell that cows are natural prey. they have eyes set on the sides of their head so they can see predators approaching from behind. They have poorly developed auditory and olfactory senses. They have flat teeth to grind grasses and grain.

Now let's look at a dog. Dogs are predators. they have eyes set in the front of their head, so they can track and chase prey. They have highly developed auditory senses, so they can hear prey, not quite what humans have, but still very sophisticated. They have olfactory senses that are hundreds of times sharper than humans, so they can track by scent. They have varied teeth, with incisors to clamp and hold, canines to puncture, and multi-ribbed molars to tear flesh.

These are the marks of a predator, forward set eyes, keen hearing, and teeth to consume flesh.

Predators evolved to hunt, kill, and eat grazing animals, like cows. Dogs, cats, bears, and humans, evolved to hunt and kill our food.



Ohmygawd, a CORPORATION? Oh horrors, if only I knew that most cattle farms weren't hippie communes...

LOL, crazy people have strange views..



If you were sane, the absurdity of your claim would be apparent.

The National Cattlemens Association has over 17,000 members - not 4, but 17,000

National Cattlemen's Foundation - Home

I know the difference between 4 and 17,000 is small, but still....



I wasn't addressing your reliance on logical fallacy as the basis of your thesis, after all, without fallacy, you'd have no logic at all. No, I was pointing out that cows are prey, they evolved as such. They will be eaten.



Tigers are not sentient, thus they lack the ability to plan for the future, which is what farming of all sorts is. Humans are unique on this planet, we alone are sentient. We alone are aware. A tiger is driven by hunger to hunt. The tiger lacks sentience and so cannot formulate the thought that raising the young of the gazelle he just killed will provide him with food in the future. The tiger is not sentient, he is not aware that there is a future.



You are neither sane, nor rational.

People don't pay corporations to "treat animals" at all. People buy food, that is as far as it goes. Few think beyond what looks good for dinner, fewer still give a flying fuck.

Interesting logic you have. He truth is, people don't want to know about factory farming, because they might actually care were they to discover the truth of its methods.

If that were true, then the idiotic propaganda campaigns you nutjobs launch would work.

But, they don't. My wife and I watched "Food Inc." then went and bought some steaks and chicken.

Yeah, I buy Foster or Zackey chicken. Yep, both are free range farms, but that isn't what drives my decision, they just have better chicken.

They don't want to relinquish the pleasure of consuming animals products, so are willing to suspend themselves in ignorance to the suffering they cause with the support to these corporations.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

If you were sane, you would grasp that it isn't.

I can't mess with this kind of stupid. You are completely wrong about sentience, by the definition of the fucking word. All animals, except for bivalves, have a central nervous system and some kind of central processing unit (brain), to process all of the information, some of which include pain or pleasure. Therefore, they are sentient. They can sense their environment. Why is this so hard for you so accept? Animals have sentience. You deny this as hard as you can with a lot of stupid bullshit. Sentience has nothing to do with intelligence or reasoning capacity. Animals feel pain and pleasure. They have nerves and a brain. I am not transferring anything. You are assuming this. I am using inductive reasoning to conclude with a high level of probability that because animals contain the exact same hardware as we do, essentially (minus a few cc's if brain space), they have the same capacity to feel and perceive. Any scientist would agree. It is only the mindless religious zealots who think humans are the perfection of the universe, that will follow Descartes in his idiotic "animals are machines" argument, which had been thoroughly debunked by modern science. This isn't even that complicated of a derivation. You just refuse to use actual reasoning and rest on false, centuries-old beliefs fed to you by some idiot. Try to actually think critically about what you are saying.

As for you constantly talking about Cattle as prey or morphological traits of animals... This is a fallacy that I've pointed out at least five times in this thread. Observations about what cattle are in nature, has no logical connection to how we ought to treat them. A description of nature is not a prescription for how we should treat animals. This is the naturalistic fallacy, and it is pretty much your entire stupid argument. As an aside, Have you forgotten that we have artificially evolved cattle from what once were very dangerous animals? They are tame now because we have engineered them this way. None of this is justification to bestow upon them a lifetime of suffering. Explain to me how the what happens in nature is justification for how we ought to treat animals now, in factory farms? You can't, because it is logically impossible, but give it a shot, without continually using the naturalistic fallacy.

 

[newpolitics]

Vegetarians are better people than meat eaters, it's that simple.

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

 

[G.T.]

I'm having a steak tonight and I don't feel bad about it at all. It's pleasurable, I crave it, and a Lion would enjoy the same meal.

Humans = king of the jungle.

 

[newpolitics]

I'm having a steak tonight and I don't feel bad about it at all. It's pleasurable, I crave it, and a Lion would enjoy the same meal.

Humans = king of the jungle.

Who cares that we are "kings of the jungle"??? That is not justification to bestow suffering on animals. Please tell me how this works, because I'm just not getting it. By the way, you bragging about how you are paying a corporation to confine and kill an animal in what was probably a cruel and inhumane way, is really pathetic. Am I supposed to be impressed that you handed over five dollars to someone? Go kill it yourself, then maybe you can brag. As it is, your a fucking coward.

 

[G.T.]

I'm having a steak tonight and I don't feel bad about it at all. It's pleasurable, I crave it, and a Lion would enjoy the same meal.

Humans = king of the jungle.

Who cares that we are "kings of the jungle"??? That is not justification to bestow suffering on animals. Please tell me how this works, because I'm just not getting it. By the way, you bragging about how you are paying a corporation to confine and kill an animal in what was probably a cruel and inhumane way, is really pathetic. Am I supposed to be impressed that you handed over five dollars to someone? Go kill it yourself, then maybe you can brag. As it is, your a fucking coward.

Did I get my steak from a corporation? You dont know that.

It's a healthy assumption though.

You got your computer from a corporation too, slick. If it's an apple, I wouldn't be too proud.

Point is, yea to me being king of the jungle is justification. I'm not morally responsible for the structured society I was born into, and I'm not following a moral code set by fanciful thinking, either.

Show me the moral basis for treating animals as an equal.

And I'm not a coward, I just don't answer to your particular beck and call. Sorry.

 

[newpolitics]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do, i just don't eat it anymore. I know how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to. Considering how inhumane the entire process of factory farming is, it should be avoided if possible and subtitled for other, plant-based options. Please, put aside the immature anger towards a vegan, and try to have a rational debate. If you can not rationally justify your diet, just admit it. Why do you need to? Because of the suffering involved, in my opinion.

 

[G.T.]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do. I understand how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to.

If everyone became a vegan and with droughts and bad growing conditions, we'd have to eat meat anyways. Your assumptions about that are off.

And even if there's a side of me that feels bad for the factory conditions, etc.....

Best I'd do is speak out against the way animals are killed.

But I'd still eat them, and I'd still enjoy it.

I dont believe in Religion, etc. but to me there's something advantageous about being the most dominant species on the planet and I don't feel bad for the powers bestowed upon us over the other carnivores or omnivores - and the other carnivores don't feel bad either for their kills.

 

[G.T.]

I wonder if Mr Phoenix cares about the kids that die in gang wars that he's funded throughout his life of Drug use.

 

[ima]

Vegetarians are better people than meat eaters, it's that simple.

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one fucking night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

 

[jillian]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do, i just don't eat it anymore. I know how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to. Considering how inhumane the entire process of factory farming is, it should be avoided if possible and subtitled for other, plant-based options. Please, put aside the immature anger towards a vegan, and try to have a rational debate. If you can not rationally justify your diet, just admit it. Why do you need to? Because of the suffering involved, in my opinion.

vegetarians are ok.

vegans are creepy.

 

[G.T.]

Vegetarians are better people than meat eaters, it's that simple.

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one fucking night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

I know more than most about nutrition.

Red meat is ok in moderation.

The other petty insults? Save it, I don't care it cannot effect me so you waste your key strokes, bruv. Just advising.

 

[jillian]

Because I care about the suffering that we are causing for other sentient creatures?

Because you are delusional and engage in transference. Some people transfer their desire for children onto plants, or cats. You transfer your hatred of your fellow man by falsely endowing animals with sentience.

I think it is you who is mentally deranged for not understanding how hypocritical this makes you. You would service your own interests, but deny them to animals, based on what justification, exactly? Have you any? Please don't tell me you read the bible and this is where you are getting your views from.

You are a child who has not completed a basic biology class. You have childish views, and have let them consume reason.

My Avatar shows someone I love very much, I love animals. But she kills without thought or remorse, she's a Dingo, it's what they do. Humans and dogs are symbiotic, we are both predators at the top of the food chain.

damn, now i have to pos rep you.

 

[newpolitics]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do. I understand how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to.

If everyone became a vegan and with droughts and bad growing conditions, we'd have to eat meat anyways. Your assumptions about that are off.

And even if there's a side of me that feels bad for the factory conditions, etc.....

Best I'd do is speak out against the way animals are killed.

But I'd still eat them, and I'd still enjoy it.

I dont believe in Religion, etc. but to me there's something advantageous about being the most dominant species on the planet and I don't feel bad for the powers bestowed upon us over the other carnivores or omnivores - and the other carnivores don't feel bad either for their kills.

Do you realize that 80% of the grain crops grown in this country go to feed the livestock that ends up as animal products? It is an incredibly inefficient process, so your claim about droughts is self refuting. You can grow many more calories per unit of land with plant crops because of trophic levels. Given the land we have, we could literally feed all of the starving people in africa if we used that land to grow crops for human populations. Growing meat is also incredibly resource intensive, requiring vast amounts of fresh water per pound of meat (i cant remember the figure, but it is shocking) not to mention the manure that is washed into our fresh water systems when it leaks from holding pools. Factory farming is an environmental disaster. There is every reason to go vegan: ethics, environment, health, and just one to remain an omnivore: taste. A simple cost benefit analysis, if one is thinking beyond himself, would unequivocally arrive at veganism being the better option.

 

[ima]

I don't agree to this, but I think people that are willing to actually discover how their animal products get to shelf, are unequivocally vastly more mature than those that wish to remain willfully ignorant. People that are willing to forgo the pleasure of meat, dairy, and eggs to lessen the demand for these products, therefore lessening how many are supplied and lessening the number of animals that need to suffer under these conditions, are more compassionate, empathetic, and more moral. Those that would deny even animal sentience based on religious scriptures are the scum of the earth.

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one fucking night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

I know more than most about nutrition.

Red meat is ok in moderation.

The other petty insults? Save it, I don't care it cannot effect me so you waste your key strokes, bruv. Just advising.

Red meat is even better left on the animal. Just advising.

And you don't care about factory farms or the environment. You're part of the problem.

I bet you also own a gun and the only thing you've ever shot is your foot.

 

[G.T.]

Btw, you think I didn't used to shovel meat, dairy, and eggs in my mouth? I've been vegan for only two years. Before that, I loved all animal products. Technically, I still do. I understand how pleasurable it is, and I am not judging anyone for eating it, so get your preconceptions of vegans out of your head. I will however, judge those who choose to remain ignorant to the methods of factory farming, animal sentience, or who refuse to think critically about their diet. Eating meat is not necessary for survival anymore. We have plenty of other foods we can subsist on. This determines morality for me: necessity. If I were trapped in the wild, as a vegan, I would kill and eat an animal to survive. In modern civilization, I can walk to a supermarket that has a plethora of vegetables, fruit, seeds, beans, and really excellent vegan products that no longer make it necessary to kill animals. As I said, just because we used to, does not mean we should continue to.

If everyone became a vegan and with droughts and bad growing conditions, we'd have to eat meat anyways. Your assumptions about that are off.

And even if there's a side of me that feels bad for the factory conditions, etc.....

Best I'd do is speak out against the way animals are killed.

But I'd still eat them, and I'd still enjoy it.

I dont believe in Religion, etc. but to me there's something advantageous about being the most dominant species on the planet and I don't feel bad for the powers bestowed upon us over the other carnivores or omnivores - and the other carnivores don't feel bad either for their kills.

A simple cost benefit analysis, if one is thinking beyond himself, would unequivocally arrive at veganism being the better option.

Right, if one is thinking beyond himself you're right.

I'm not sure that's necessary for diet, particularly, in the scheme of things though. Enjoy life while it lasts, bro. I know that people die in the ghetto every day and its sometimes bothersome that people devote their lives to advocating for animals before their own species, when I doubt if any other animal had the ability to reason they'd do the same.

I'd kill 10 thousand animals to save one single human. I love animals, but I love and am devoted to and am a member of the human race. My loyalty resides with humans over all else.

 

[G.T.]

Vegetarians have respect for their own bodies and for their environment, unlike that neanderthal GT, who thinks he's the king of the jungle, when in reality, he probably wouldn't last one fucking night in a jungle.
Meat eaters have meat constantly rotting in their gut and have stinkier shit.

I know more than most about nutrition.

Red meat is ok in moderation.

The other petty insults? Save it, I don't care it cannot effect me so you waste your key strokes, bruv. Just advising.

Red meat is even better left on the animal. Just advising.

And you don't care about factory farms or the environment. You're part of the problem.

I bet you also own a gun and the only thing you've ever shot is your foot.

Your assumptions are off base.

 

[ima]

We could end world hunger if we stopped using so much grain and water to feed animals. So eating meat is actually making someone, somewhere starve.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can't mess with this kind of stupid. You are completely wrong about sentience, by the definition of the fucking word. All animals, except for bivalves, have a central nervous system and some kind of central processing unit (brain), to process all of the information, some of which include pain or pleasure.

No stupid, "pleasure" isn't the basis of sentience -AWARENESS is.

A man who you have never heard of, Rene Descartes wrote "I think, therefore I am." What Descartes realized is that self-awareness is the foundation of sentience.

Therefore, they are sentient. They can sense their environment. Why is this so hard for you so accept?

For the same reason it's hard to accept that fairies are flying about and unicorns romp in green fields. Because it's a fantasy of an unbalanced child.

Animals have sentience. You deny this as hard as you can with a lot of stupid bullshit. Sentience has nothing to do with intelligence or reasoning capacity. Animals feel pain and pleasure. They have nerves and a brain. I am not transferring anything. You are assuming this. I am using inductive reasoning to conclude with a high level of probability that because animals contain the exact same hardware as we do, essentially (minus a few cc's if brain space), they have the same capacity to feel and perceive. Any scientist would agree. It is only the mindless religious zealots who think humans are the perfection of the universe, that will follow Descartes in his idiotic "animals are machines" argument, which had been thoroughly debunked by modern science. This isn't even that complicated of a derivation. You just refuse to use actual reasoning and rest on false, centuries-old beliefs fed to you by some idiot. Try to actually think critically about what you are saying.

Animals display zero capacity for self-awareness. You live in a fantasy divorced from reality.

As for you constantly talking about Cattle as prey or morphological traits of animals... This is a fallacy that I've pointed out at least five times in this thread. Observations about what cattle are in nature, has no logical connection to how we ought to treat them.

We ought to treat them as food, and we do.

A description of nature is not a prescription for how we should treat animals. This is the naturalistic fallacy, and it is pretty much your entire stupid argument. As an aside, Have you forgotten that we have artificially evolved cattle from what once were very dangerous animals? They are tame now because we have engineered them this way. None of this is justification to bestow upon them a lifetime of suffering. Explain to me how the what happens in nature is justification for how we ought to treat animals now, in factory farms? You can't, because it is logically impossible, but give it a shot, without continually using the naturalistic fallacy.

Just like the Christians whom you hate, you deny evolution and biological reality in favor of a fantasy that suits you better.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Who cares that we are "kings of the jungle"???

If they were self-aware, cows would.

But cows aren't sentient, so they don't.

That is not justification to bestow suffering on animals.

No one wants animals to suffer - no one.

We want them killed as humanely as possible

If you're really concerned, buy Kosher beef - then you can be assured the animal was slaughtered in accordance to Jewish law, which is very careful to ensure the animal doesn't suffer.

Please tell me how this works, because I'm just not getting it. By the way, you bragging about how you are paying a corporation to confine and kill an animal in what was probably a cruel and inhumane way, is really pathetic. Am I supposed to be impressed that you handed over five dollars to someone? Go kill it yourself, then maybe you can brag. As it is, your a fucking coward.

I buy gas at a gas station, Guess that makes me a coward, since I don't go pump crude oil from the ground and refine in myself...

Dude, you honestly are mentally ill; you DO grasp that, don't you?