Obama to visit Middle East - but NOT Israel

[Kalam]

But, God is in control, and He will protect Isreal no matter what Obama or anyone else wants to do.....

He told you that, huh?

 

[Kalam]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

So you think Muslims are dogs?

Many of them, yes. The others I think are dirt. No wait, not dirt. Bacterial waste.

You have a problem with that, Muzzie?

Pure gold.

 

[RodISHI]

Is it a snub or does he have other business? Is it required that a president go to the State of Israel every trip that they may make to the middle east? If so, when did that policy begin?

 

[RodISHI]

But, God is in control, and He will protect Isreal no matter what Obama or anyone else wants to do.....

He told you that, huh?

A bit of an error in that type of thinking.
Jeremiah - Chapter 21
21:8 And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.

21:13 Behold, I am against thee, O inhabitant of the valley, and rock of the plain, saith the LORD; which say, Who shall come down against us? or who shall enter into our habitations?
21:14 But I will punish you according to the fruit of your doings, saith the LORD: and I will kindle a fire in the forest thereof, and it shall devour all things round about it.

 

[strollingbones]

you mean why do i continue to remember the men of the uss liberty? you would like june 8th to pass quietly with nothing said...well that aint gonna happen....

instead of name calling prove me wrong with facts...but you cannot do that..so you resource to name calling and try to make it all go away..well guess what..it is not going away...and i will be here june 8th and i will be posting on the uss liberty....

What facts are those fuckbag?

That the recently released NSA audio tapes proved that the IAF pilots did not know the ship was an american one?

you have a link? or do we just take your word for this?

 

[strollingbones]

btw is that how they teach rhodes scholars to debate now

 

[Caroljo]

But, God is in control, and He will protect Isreal no matter what Obama or anyone else wants to do.....

He told you that, huh?

In fact he did...in His book.
Isreal is a tiny country surrounded by it's enemies and has been since 1948. The Muslim countries surrounding them have hated them since the beginning of time. What's stopping them from completely destroying Isreal?? How has one little country survived this many years with enemies all around them? Why haven't the enemies just ALL charged in and taken care of them once and for all? Do you have an answer to that? The only answer is that God has them under his protection. You can make fun of this all you want, but some day i'm sure you will see the truth, and i hope it isn't too late for you.

 

[jgbkab]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

So you think Muslims are dogs?

Many of them, yes. The others I think are dirt. No wait, not dirt. Bacterial waste.

You have a problem with that, Muzzie?

Not at all

 

[Sunni Man]

But, God is in control, and He will protect Isreal no matter what Obama or anyone else wants to do.....

He told you that, huh?

In fact he did...in His book.
Isreal is a tiny country surrounded by it's enemies and has been since 1948. The Muslim countries surrounding them have hated them since the beginning of time. What's stopping them from completely destroying Isreal?? How has one little country survived this many years with enemies all around them? Why haven't the enemies just ALL charged in and taken care of them once and for all? Do you have an answer to that?

I know the true answer to your question.

It's because America's politicians are forced to kowtow to the Zionist lobbies in Washington in order to get elected.

And the brain washed American public has been led to believe that what ever Israel wants is somehow best for the United States.

So we throw all of our militay might, weapons, and money, to defend and support the fascist 51st state named Israel.

We will only have peace on earth when Israel NO longer exists.

 

[Annie]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

Wow, just wow. You don't see the 'problem.' If you don't, no one will.

 

[Article 15]

What facts are those fuckbag?

That the recently released NSA audio tapes proved that the IAF pilots did not know the ship was an american one?

why in the world do you run around the forum whining about people insulting and using curse words and how it is unmoderated here....are you just plain stupid or something

I am not complaining about it genius, I am just saying its hilarious how in the other thread, one poster did complain to me, yet ignored shogun's far worse comments/racism/insults.

Liar.

Exhibit A

I do say I really like this forum and its hands off-moderation style, but the admins do need to apply some and get this jackass troll off the board. He/it has no interest in an intelligent debate, and is just polluting the threads he enters. Can the mods stop it?

 

[Kalam]

In fact he did...in His book.

God isn't a writer.

Isreal is a tiny country surrounded by it's enemies and has been since 1948. The Muslim countries surrounding them have hated them since the beginning of time.

I wouldn't call 1948 the beginning of time.

What's stopping them from completely destroying Isreal?? How has one little country survived this many years with enemies all around them? Why haven't the enemies just ALL charged in and taken care of them once and for all? Do you have an answer to that?

Yes, I do: the United States. Do you really believe that all of the countries in the Middle East are so hellbent on destroying Israel that they wouldn't take their own welfare into consideration? They're not going to try to rough up Israel, the neighborhood bully, while big daddy America's standing right there pointing a gun at them.

Israel's victory in their "war for independence" can be explained by the presence of approximately twice as many Israeli soldiers as Arab soldiers in Palestine by the war's end, as well as (generally) poor munitions and logistical capabilities on the Arabs' part. In all of the other wars in which Israel has participated, it has directly or indirectly received support from either us or some other foreign country.

The only answer is that God has them under his protection.

You assume that this is the case because you aren't willing to examine the real circumstances surrounding Israel's relatively successful existence. By extension of your logic, I could just as easily say that America lost the War in Vietnam because God's a red-blooded commie who assisted the NVA. Suggesting that God takes any interest in our petty squabbles is laughable, but less so than suggesting that he actually participates in them. Implying that God actively meddles in the affairs of the physical universe implies that he believes that there are problems here that require divine interference. That, in turn, implies that he's of limited intelligence for not being able to foresee these problems, preventing them from happening in the first place. If you believe that God exists and is omniscient, you must logically assume that events in the universe occur as they're "supposed to" without God's active interference.

You can make fun of this all you want,

I'll criticize beliefs that seem worthy of criticism.

but some day i'm sure you will see the truth, and i hope it isn't too late for you.

I don't buy into the nonsense about God being a cranky little kid who throws a fit and commits genocide (a la the Old Testament) whenever things don't go his way. A god ruled by human emotions is a petty god indeed. Additionally, there are no "chosen people," and neither Israel nor any other nation or group is afforded any sort of special status. I don't and won't subscribe to a religious ideology that is racist and at odds with logic.

Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death, if you are truthful. But they will never invoke it because of what their hands have sent before. And Allah is Knower of the wrongdoers. - 62:6-7​

 

[jillian]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

Wow, just wow. You don't see the 'problem.' If you don't, no one will.

because it's another fabricated problem. he just went to israel... just met with netanyahu... i'm not sure what the point is.

 

[Annie]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

Wow, just wow. You don't see the 'problem.' If you don't, no one will.

because it's another fabricated problem. he just went to israel... just met with netanyahu... i'm not sure what the point is.

Keep telling yourself that. You aren't different than those that went before.

 

[Gunny]

In a blatant show of disinterest toward the Israeli position, President Obama is heading to the Middle East, but will snub the Israeli government.

Is this an end to seven decades of American support for the Israeli state?

Why would Obama make such a disrespectful gesture?

Is this yet another bow to the Muslim world? Dissatisfaction toward the conservative and newly elected Israeli president?

Or is Obama just an idiot boy-king with no real sense of purpose and responsibility?

Again? He didn't embarrass us enough the first time?

Israel probably warned him they turned their gaydar on.

 

[Gunny]

Silly American.. Doesn't he know that all roads lead back to kissing some kosher ass?

someone alert miami!

Not him. He's a terrorist lover like you.

 

[xotoxi]

So you think Muslims are dogs?

Many of them, yes. The others I think are dirt. No wait, not dirt. Bacterial waste.

It's funny how people can say that about Muslims without any backlash. But if you say it about Jews, you get your head chewed off.

 

[Gunny]

So you think Muslims are dogs?

Many of them, yes. The others I think are dirt. No wait, not dirt. Bacterial waste.

It's funny how people can say that about Muslims without any backlash. But if you say it about Jews, you get your head chewed off.

Not Muslims or Jews ... terrorists. Terrorists ARE bacterial waste, and I don't give a damn WHOSE name they're doing it in.

 

[DavidS]

I dunno if I have a problem with this. Obama has already met with Israeli leaders and had several discussions with them this month.

Let him try appeasement and understanding of Muslims. Then, when we get hit again by one of them, it'll be time to wipe the floor clean of those dogs.

Wow, just wow. You don't see the 'problem.' If you don't, no one will.

Obama played politics and I understand the politics behind it. He didn't want to stop off in Israel after making a speech to the Muslim world. The Jews would ask "Why hasn't he made a speech to the Jewish world?"

He's trying to appease the Muslims as much as possible on this trip. A stop over in Israel would offend them.

I didn't say I agreed with his reasons, though. I understand them - but I don't agree with them. He is making Israel like czechoslovakia during world war 2. Offering it up to the bad guys. The reason why we won WW2 is because it took us getting our asses handed to us in Pearl Harbor to realize we cannot stay out of a massive global war - we cannot be the appeasers, we must destroy our enemies. Anhilate them. Completely. We aren't doing that today.

We are, in effect, rewarding the bad guys. We're rewarding the Arabs for blowing up buses and coffee shops, etc. We're rewarding them for not recognizing Israel. We're rewarding them for attacking Israel in the 1940s, 50s, 60s and 70s.

I've read a lot about the liberal media - and the conservative media. I know Obama is going to go on FoxNews again sometime in the next 4 years for an interview. I want someone to ask Obama "Do you believe 9/11 was caused because of US support of Israel?" And Obama would say yes. I'm sure many of you would say yes, too. The truth is, if it wasn't Israel, it would be something else. Some other excuse as a reason why they hate us. I disagree completely with the notion that 9/11 was an opportunity for us to take stock in our lives and our direction and where we want to go - Obama is following in the path that his Pastor layed out before him days after 9/11 when he made this "God bless America? No, no, no! Not God Bless America! God DAMN America!" speech. During that speech he cited several terrible attrocities that America has committed in its 230+ year existence and how we don't blink, but once an attorcitity happens to us, we must call out for blood.

All of this links back to 9/11. Why were we attacked? Were we attacked because there were 20 Muslim pigs who wanted to kill us all or were we attacked because our country is headed down the wrong direction? If you believe the former, congratulations. If you believe the latter, then you agree with Obama skipping Israel and making a speech before the Muslim world.

But if you look at the Muslim world and you see how often they're fighting with their neighbors and doing suicide bombs everywhere they possibly can -- you see that their fights have absolutely nothing to do with Israel whatsoever. Oh someone stpped foot in the wrong mosque or said something wrong about Allah or Mohammad or something like that to piss them off. The problem with the world today is that we're letting the beligerants tell the narrative - we're letting them write the story of where we go and what we do and what concessions we must make.

That is a far cry from how we used to be. I do not think the world as a whole is better off from letting the beligerants write the story. I think we're going to get hit again from terrorists and everything Obama has been working on to make peace with the Muslim world is going to completely fall apart. We're going to get hit and we're going to get hit hard.

So the new narrative of the story is: Once we get hit, what will Obama do? Will he apologize to them or will he attack and wipe the people who did this off of the face of the Earth?

 

[RodISHI]

"Statement to the Knesset by Prime Minister Eshkol - 5 June 1967," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, June 5, 1967

Mr. Speaker,

Before I submit the expansion of the Government for approval, I must report to the Knesset and the nation on the momentous developments for the State of Israel that have taken place today.

Mr. Speaker, Members of the Knesset,

Heavy battles started this morning between the Egyptian air force and the Israeli air force. In these battles the Egyptian air force was heavily defeated. During the day the Syrian and Jordanian air forces also launched attacks, and they also suffered severe blows from our air force.

Since the morning our land and air forces were compelled to hit back against the enemy in order to rout the forces of the aggressive Egyptian dictator. The battle is still in full swing. Our army has not disappointed expectations - it is standing the test. And it will successfully confront any further tests it may have to face.

The battles are now taking place beyond Israel's borders, on the soil of Sinai. For obvious reasons I cannot now give details - either numbers, names or places - but I can say that our forces are steadily repulsing the enemy.

In my morning broadcast I emphasized that Israel would not attack any country so long as it did not start war against us, but that anyone who attacked us would meet our full capacity to defend ourselves and defeat his forces.

Despite this warning Syrian and Jordanian forces have joined in the hostilities against Israel by air bombardment, and artillery and small arms fire - witness Jerusalem more than any other place. The forces of these countries have opened fire on various sectors, including Jerusalem, our Capital. The Israel Defense Forces have started counter-operations, as required in order to defend the country.

Members of the Knesset,

It is by no means superfluous to survey briefly the background to the latest events. On the establishment of the State of Israel, the Arab armies tried to destroy the State in its infancy. After our forces had successfully resisted superior enemy forces, armistice agreements were signed between Israel and its neighbors. These agreements, as stated in the text, were designed to serve as a transition to permanent peace, but the Arab countries refused to negotiate for peace and started preparations to destroy Israel on the field of battle.

In open violation of the armistice agreements and the UN Charter, the Arab countries imposed boycott and blockade on Israel, declared that they maintained a state of belligerency against Israel and rejected all proposals to negotiate for a settlement. In brief, they tried to make Israel a country discriminated against in comparison with all the other countries in the world, they tried to exclude it from the applicability of international law, to put it beyond the bounds of normal relations between the nations of the world.

After ten years of relative tranquility on our southern border, the position was fundamentally undermined because of a series of aggressive steps taken by the Egyptian dictator.

This state of belligerency and aggression has continued without a pause for nineteen years. There were periods of relaxation, alternating with the intensification of Arab acts of hostility against us. About three weeks ago there started a threat to Israel, which is perhaps unequalled since the establishment of the State.

The first step was the introduction of a powerful Egyptian force into eastern Sinai; the next - the removal of the UN force; and next - the belligerent step of closing the Straits of Tiran to Israeli and international shipping - these measures being accompanied by feverish preparations for a total war of extermination against Israel.

At first, the Egyptian dictator cunningly announced that he was acting in order to deter Israel from attacking Syria. He disseminated the falsehood that Israeli forces were, as he said, concentrated on the northern frontier. It was no use denying these stories; it was no use the UN Secretariat confirming that these concentrations were a figment of the imagination. Nasser soon showed his cards: from false claims that it was his purpose to defend Syria, he went on to altering the status quo in the Straits of Tiran. Nasser did not conceal his desire to turn back the wheels of history, to the time before 1948; his plan was to strangle the independence of Israel in its own country.

With a view to encircling Israel, he put into operation the Defense treaty with Syria, which has been responsible for acts of violence during the past two years, and to complete the attempt at encirclement, he recently concluded treaties with Jordan and Iraq.

In Sinai, opposite our frontier, there were deployed until this morning five divisions of infantry and two armored divisions, with 900 tanks along the frontier 200 of them opposite Eilat, with the obvious intention of cutting off the southern Negev; Iraqi troops and Egyptian commando units reached Jordan; the Jordanian army was placed under Egyptian command. During the past ten days, Egyptian air sorties have been carried out in Israeli skies.

After Nasser's statement of his intention to conduct a general war against Israel, the Commander of the Egyptian forces in Sinai, General Mortagi, issued an Order of the Day to his soldiers, which was quoted on Cairo Radio on 3 June, in the following terms:

"The eyes of the whole world are upon you in your glorious war against the aggression of the Israeli imperialists on the soil of your homeland, in the expectation, of seeing the results of your holy war for the conquest of the rights of the Arab people. The results of this unique moment are of historic importance for our Arab nation and for the holy war through which you will restore the rights of the Arabs which have been stolen in Palestine and conquer again the plundered soil of Palestine, by the mercy of God and the power of justice, by the force of arms and the unity of your faith."

During the past few weeks we have done our best to induce influential international factors in West and East to exercise political influence in order to remove the danger from our borders, open the straits and restore the status quo. Our hopes were not fulfilled.

While we were hoping for deterrent international influence by the intervention of Heads of State, the order of magnitude of the aggressive forces of Egypt and the other Arab countries under Egyptian leadership steadily grew, the belligerent incitement of the Egyptian dictator and his helpers reached unheard-of heights, and Israel was imminently threatened by an attack on several fronts.
In these days, which are liable to be days of brutal and bloodstained struggle, the boundaries between front and rear are blurred. In these days, the entire nation is an army; the entire country is one front. Each and every one of us, everywhere and at all times, must regard himself as responsible for Israel's Defense. All of us, headed by our Army, will rout our attackers.

Let us pay tribute to the continually growing manifestations of support from our people in the Diaspora. The identification of the Jewish people with the State of Israel fills us with confidence. The consciousness of the fraternity and unity that inspire every Jew brings us closer together and bridges the distances. The Jewish heart, wherever it may be, now beats with the State of Israel and longs for its victory.

I should also like to express from the rostrum of the Knesset our profound appreciation to the very many non-Jews, statesmen and intellectuals, as well as men in the street, who have been shocked at the threat to Israel and whose feelings have found expression in a wave of sympathy for our country, the like of which we have never known before.

Even during the battles, we do not abandon our aspiration for peace. I want to ask the Arab States, which for almost 20 years have chosen the path of threats and aggression instead of the path of cooperation and peace: what good have these methods done them?

Precious resources have been squandered to finance the cold and hot war against Israel. Since 1952, Egypt alone has spent over 4,000 million dollars to establish its military force. All the Arab countries and Israel have spent in the same period over 10,000 million dollars on military purposes. This sum would have been sufficient to deliver extensive strata of the peoples of the area from poverty and disease and to lay the foundation for dynamic social and economic progress. The time has come for a thorough heart-searching on the part of the Arab peoples, which will perhaps lead them to prefer peace and progress to hatred and bloodshed. At this hour, I would venture to say that peace will surely come to our region, even if it is delayed, for we all need it.

To the leaders of nations, in East and West, I want to say from this rostrum: Competition between Powers and blocs has made no slight contribution to the intensification of the arms race in the Middle East and the constant growth of the tension in our area. For years we have called for international action for the advancement of peace in our area; we have demanded the ending of the arms race, with a view to disarmament under mutual inspection by the countries in the area. To my regret, our demands have not borne the fruits we wished. May the lesson be learned for the future.

Members of the Knesset,

Since the beginning of the present tension views were heard in favor of the expansion of the Government and its parliamentary base. When I felt that the testing time was approaching, I took the initiative for the establishment of a broad emergency Government, and I asked the Gahal and Rafi parties to join the Government. As you are aware, these negotiations have been successful, and I welcome the expansion of the Government.

In view of the emergency conditions, the Ministers-elect have been inducted into their responsibilities even before the Knesset has confirmed them in their membership of the Government.

I am confident that the new Ministers now realize, even more than they did before, how strong is the military force that we have developed and fostered since the establishment of the State, and especially during the past few years. A strong, powerful and highly effective force has been established, which does not lag behind in using the most recent discoveries of science and technology. The Ministers-elect have seen the Israel Defense Forces in a state of mobilization and I am confident that they have been deeply impressed by the excellent planning of the General Staff and the operational skill of the Army. I am confident that this force will lead us to victory, and the expansion of the Government will strengthen us and help us to overcome the difficulties.

Members of the Knesset,

a) In accordance with Article 11e of the Transition Law 1949, I have the honor to state that the Government has decided to meet my request to release me from my duties as Minister of Defense from the moment the Knesset confirms the appointment of Mr. Moshe Dayan, Member of the Knesset, as Minister of Defense.
b) In accordance with Article 11d of the Transition Law 1949, I have the honor to announce that the Government has decided on the co-option of three additional members to the Government, namely: Mr. Menahem Begin, as Minister, Mr. Yosef Sapir as Minister, and Mr. Moshe Dayan as Minister of Defense.
c) In accordance with Article 11a of the Transition Law 1949, I hereby announce that Mr. Zvi Dinstein has ceased to serve as Deputy Minister of Defense.

I request the approval of the Knesset for this announcement.

Members of the Knesset,

Today we face a war which has been forced upon us, united and strong as never before, trusting in the Rock of Israel, confident in the fortitude of our people, relying on the valor of the Israel Defense Forces and their capacity to defeat the enemy and ensure peace.