Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir

[boedicca]

I don't give a shit about your sob stories. I watched My mother die last year and had to make decisions about her. And guess what, we did it all WITHOUT the stinking Guberment sticking their friggen noses in it.
now you are dismissed.

sorry for your loss.

but because you did it without the doctor being PAID to help you want to deprive others.

who gives a rat's patoot what you did with or without.

now *you* are dismissed.

This is one of the most hateful responses I have seen on this board.

Congratulations on achieving a New Low.

 

[Meister]

They took it out because Sarah Palin is an idiot fearmongerer, and Americans as a whole are pretty fucking gullible.

I guess you would rather miss my point completely and point a finger at someone. Got it.

If I missed your point, I apologize.

What exactly was your point?

with a response like that, I'm sure it went right over your head. Sorry to confuse you.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I guess you would rather miss my point completely and point a finger at someone. Got it.

If I missed your point, I apologize.

What exactly was your point?

with a response like that, I'm sure it went right over your head. Sorry to confuse you.

So you didn't have a point?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to understand what you were saying.

 

[Meister]

If I missed your point, I apologize.

What exactly was your point?

with a response like that, I'm sure it went right over your head. Sorry to confuse you.

So you didn't have a point?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to understand what you were saying.

I was being very clear in my post which you responded to. If it WAS TAKEN OUT TO GET THE VOTES TO PASS THE SENATE and CONGRESS, THEN IT SHOULD BE LEFT OUT. It's not that difficult of a concept.
Then you come in crying PALIN....for the love of GOD, does it always have to be someone elses fault?
What is it about the left?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

with a response like that, I'm sure it went right over your head. Sorry to confuse you.

So you didn't have a point?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to understand what you were saying.

I was being very clear in my post which you responded to. If it WAS TAKEN OUT TO GET THE VOTES TO PASS THE SENATE and CONGRESS, THEN IT SHOULD BE LEFT OUT. It's not that difficult of a concept.
Then you come in crying PALIN....for the love of GOD does it always have to be someone elses fault?
What is it about the left?

Well, I guess you missed my point as well then.

My point is there's two sides to this: What is right, and what is politically feasible. Palin's comments made it infeasible to be included in the bill - but it is right to be included.

Now, you're welcome to disagree with my opinion - but there's no need to be a dick about it.

Rather than saying that it "shouldn't be put in later because it was already taken out for votes", tell me what you disagree with about this provision?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

with a response like that, I'm sure it went right over your head. Sorry to confuse you.

So you didn't have a point?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm trying to understand what you were saying.

I was being very clear in my post which you responded to. If it WAS TAKEN OUT TO GET THE VOTES TO PASS THE SENATE and CONGRESS, THEN IT SHOULD BE LEFT OUT. It's not that difficult of a concept.
Then you come in crying PALIN....for the love of GOD, does it always have to be someone elses fault?
What is it about the left?

I told people that when the government get a healthcare legislation passed no matter how watrered down they will add everything that has been said about obamacare. This monster must be repealed in whole

 

[geauxtohell]

All that is well and good until you change your mind and decide you want a treatment and a government bureaucrat decides you don't have enough "intrinsic value to society" for them to perform said treatment.

Thats the part your ignoring. You are talking about something very similar, but not the same, as the issue most have with this. That issue being a government official will be the one deciding what treatments are and are not available based on your societal worth.

Nowhere in this initiative is this an issue. It exists in paranoid minds only.

This is fairly simple. Compensating Doctors for their time in helping patients make a plan for how they want the end of their life to go. This is going to cover counseling during annual exams with a primary care provider. Both the time, location, and doctor will not be the same as the "end of your life".

Counseling on advanced directives is done (though hap-hazardly) now anyways, this just ensures that physicians will be compensated for their time and opinions. It leads to better patient outcomes. As I said before, either you can make your wants known or someone else will decide for you. Either way, you are going to die. You might as well do it on your terms.

I can't decide if this insistence about inserting "rationing" into every facet of the health care issue (even ones that make good sense like this) is subterfuge, paranoia, or simple ignorance by the right.

But by all means, show me how this measure will lead to rationing.

 

[geauxtohell]

All that is well and good until you change your mind and decide you want a treatment and a government bureaucrat decides you don't have enough "intrinsic value to society" for them to perform said treatment.

Thats the part your ignoring.

Actually, that's the part you're making up.

Not exactly

Medicare - Health - The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=3&ref=robertpear

Right there the government is getting involved, monetarily, with end of life care.

Read the 2 links from a liberal source you might be interested. If you want balance I'll posts something from a conservative source but I know you dont believe those sites.

You have no idea what an "Advanced Directive" really is, do you?

 

[geauxtohell]

Actually, that's the part you're making up.

Not exactly

Medicare - Health - The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=3&ref=robertpear

Right there the government is getting involved, monetarily, with end of life care.

Read the 2 links from a liberal source you might be interested. If you want balance I'll posts something from a conservative source but I know you dont believe those sites.

well, yes, exactly.... all it says is that they want to go back to paying for end of life counseling.

why do you have a problem with people doing living wills?

This whole argument is about as idiotic as claiming that estate lawyers who put together wills and trusts are secret agents of the government who exists to facilitate the death tax.

Again, I can't figure out if this is simple ignorance, paranoia, or an attempt to attentional muddy the waters.

If it is simple ignorance, it's a prime example of why our media should be ashamed for giving a fuck-wit like Sarah Palin a platform on an issue she clearly knows nothing about.

 

[jillian]

I don't give a shit about your sob stories. I watched My mother die last year and had to make decisions about her. And guess what, we did it all WITHOUT the stinking Guberment sticking their friggen noses in it.
now you are dismissed.

sorry for your loss.

but because you did it without the doctor being PAID to help you want to deprive others.

who gives a rat's patoot what you did with or without.

now *you* are dismissed.

This is one of the most hateful responses I have seen on this board.

Congratulations on achieving a New Low.

so she can be a pig and say whatever she wants?

congratulations for never missing an opportunity to be a hack and a lowlife.

 

[jillian]

Not exactly

Medicare - Health - The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=3&ref=robertpear

Right there the government is getting involved, monetarily, with end of life care.

Read the 2 links from a liberal source you might be interested. If you want balance I'll posts something from a conservative source but I know you dont believe those sites.

well, yes, exactly.... all it says is that they want to go back to paying for end of life counseling.

why do you have a problem with people doing living wills?

This whole argument is about as idiotic as claiming that estate lawyers who put together wills and trusts are secret agents of the government who exists to facilitate the death tax.

Again, I can't figure out if this is simple ignorance, paranoia, or an attempt to attentional muddy the waters.

If it is simple ignorance, it's a prime example of why our media should be ashamed for giving a fuck-wit like Sarah Palin a platform on an issue she clearly knows nothing about.

exactly. but if they repeat a lie often enough, they think it becomes the truth.

 

[boedicca]

sorry for your loss.

but because you did it without the doctor being PAID to help you want to deprive others.

who gives a rat's patoot what you did with or without.

now *you* are dismissed.

This is one of the most hateful responses I have seen on this board.

Congratulations on achieving a New Low.

so she can be a pig and say whatever she wants?

congratulations for never missing an opportunity to be a hack and a lowlife.

Low class as always, jillian.

Kicking a person when she is discussing her mother's death is beyond the pale.

I would have thought that even you would recognize this, but that would be giving you too much credit.

Here's a clue: a decent person would have limited his or her response to an "I'm sorry for your loss", and then refocused in a non-insulting manner upon the topic.

Instead, you did what is typical of you - acted like a foul bully.

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't give a shit about your sob stories. I watched My mother die last year and had to make decisions about her. And guess what, we did it all WITHOUT the stinking Guberment sticking their friggen noses in it.
now you are dismissed.

Sorry for your loss.

However, this ironically, goes to the heart of this issue.

Who made decisions about your mother's end of life care? You did.

What did your mother want? I would assume you can only guess. Maybe you were lucky and she verbalized some intent to you. Or maybe you had to simply guess.

End of life planning is simply asking a patient to make their wants and desires in their last days known so that families (or doctors) aren't stuck making decisions that the patient wouldn't have wanted.

The sad situation you were stuck with, is the very thing that the Obama Administration is trying to prevent.

Furthermore, your advanced directive is your own decision. If your wish is to "be kept on the respirator until I die of sepsis from the inevitable hospital acquired infection", then that will be respected.

The point is, people won't have to try and guess what you wanted.

Why this is a bad thing, I still can't figure.

 

[geauxtohell]

This is one of the most hateful responses I have seen on this board.

Congratulations on achieving a New Low.

so she can be a pig and say whatever she wants?

congratulations for never missing an opportunity to be a hack and a lowlife.

Low class as always, jillian.

Kicking a person when she is discussing her mother's death is beyond the pale.

I would have thought that even you would recognize this, but that would be giving you too much credit.

Here's a clue: a decent person would have limited his or her response to an "I'm sorry for your loss", and then refocused in a non-insulting manner upon the topic.

Instead, you did what is typical of you - acted like a foul bully.

If you were going for consistency, you should also castigate Stephanie, as she was just as abrasive to Luissa who first mentioned a family member in Hospice Care.

 

[boedicca]

I don't give a shit about your sob stories. I watched My mother die last year and had to make decisions about her. And guess what, we did it all WITHOUT the stinking Guberment sticking their friggen noses in it.
now you are dismissed.

Sorry for your loss.

However, this ironically, goes to the heart of this issue.

Who made decisions about your mother's end of life care? You did.

What did your mother want? I would assume you can only guess. Maybe you were lucky and she verbalized some intent to you. Or maybe you had to simply guess.

End of life planning is simply asking a patient to make their wants and desires in their last days known so that families (or doctors) aren't stuck making decisions that the patient wouldn't have wanted.

The sad situation you were stuck with, is the very thing that the Obama Administration is trying to prevent.

Furthermore, your advanced directive is your own decision. If your wish is to "be kept on the respirator until I die of sepsis from the inevitable hospital acquired infection", then that will be respected.

The point is, people won't have to try and guess what you wanted.

Why this is a bad thing, I still can't figure.

Now this is a proper response. Thank you.

I do disagree with your conclusions, however.

Government encouragements and recommendations often end up being compulsory.

 

[boedicca]

so she can be a pig and say whatever she wants?

congratulations for never missing an opportunity to be a hack and a lowlife.

Low class as always, jillian.

Kicking a person when she is discussing her mother's death is beyond the pale.

I would have thought that even you would recognize this, but that would be giving you too much credit.

Here's a clue: a decent person would have limited his or her response to an "I'm sorry for your loss", and then refocused in a non-insulting manner upon the topic.

Instead, you did what is typical of you - acted like a foul bully.

If you were going for consistency, you should also castigate Stephanie, as she was just as abrasive to Luissa who first mentioned a family member in Hospice Care.

I did not read that exchange - I don't read every comment on the board. If you feel it worth calling out, please go ahead.

 

[geauxtohell]

I never want to end up a vegetable, laying in a hospital bed, staring at the ceiling, hooked to machines.

Is this what right wingers are advocating?

No, it's not, you can sign a paper at the hospital, or tell your loved ones that you don't want any extraordinary care. This is what's known as self responsibility, deen'o. It's a concept that's been around for along time, until the government told you they can do better.

Dammit. The stupidity level on this thread is high. This initiative is trying to get people to "sign a paper" before they present to the hospital with a tube down their damn throats or so demented that they lack decisional capacity.

If people were "responsible" enough to not wait until the last minute to address this, then obviously this wouldn't be a policy issue right now.

I really don't think you guys understand what you are arguing against.

 

[jillian]

Low class as always, jillian.

Kicking a person when she is discussing her mother's death is beyond the pale.

I would have thought that even you would recognize this, but that would be giving you too much credit.

Here's a clue: a decent person would have limited his or her response to an "I'm sorry for your loss", and then refocused in a non-insulting manner upon the topic.

Instead, you did what is typical of you - acted like a foul bully.

If you were going for consistency, you should also castigate Stephanie, as she was just as abrasive to Luissa who first mentioned a family member in Hospice Care.

I did not read that exchange - I don't read every comment on the board. If you feel it worth calling out, please go ahead.

of course you didn't read the exchange you ignorant twit. because she's a rightwingnut loon just like you.

talk about bullies. you're the one who's low class.

hack.

 

[boedicca]

If you were going for consistency, you should also castigate Stephanie, as she was just as abrasive to Luissa who first mentioned a family member in Hospice Care.

I did not read that exchange - I don't read every comment on the board. If you feel it worth calling out, please go ahead.

of course you didn't read the exchange you ignorant twit. because she's a rightwingnut loon just like you.

talk about bullies.

hack.

You really are a sad case. Get help.

You could learn something from the way GTH responded, but I doubt you will.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So the left sees no problem with a program being removed from a bill because it does not have the backing of enough congressmen/senators to pass, and then waiting 8 months and writing it back into the bill without any vote.

We'll have to make a note of this tactic. We can fix so much stuff this way.....