Obama Got It Right: Tar Sands Pipeline Would Drive Up Prices

[bripat9643]

The nubers cane fron the Canadian Company that would buil the pipeline. Did you read the story? I'm guessing you don't know how oil markets work.

What numbers? The article didn't include the study, just the interpretation of a gang of ultra left-wing hacks.

 

[Dot Com]

The lobbyist hordes are ginning-up anger now: Lobbyists go to battle over Keystone pipeline - TheHill.com

 

[bripat9643]

The lobbyist hordes are ginning-up anger now: Lobbyists go to battle over Keystone pipeline - TheHill.com

It's a losing issue for Libturds. You might as well throw in the towel while you're behind.

 

[Truthseeker420]

The nubers cane fron the Canadian Company that would buil the pipeline. Did you read the story? I'm guessing you don't know how oil markets work.

What numbers? The article didn't include the study, just the interpretation of a gang of ultra left-wing hacks.

I thought it did but I will look for it.

 

[Politician]

I suggest this is not an either or choice. If all goes well, we could have BOTH the pipeline, AND a payroll tax cut extension. One does not exclude the other.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The site is sponsored by several of environmental groups, which obviously means a potential for bias. However, that doesn't necessitate bias or falsehood of their assertions, logically speaking.

Their claims are said to be from a Canadian governmental analysis. I'm still trying to see if I can find a hard copy of it. But I have been able to find this article from a Toronto newspaper about three refineries suing Trans Canada over the Keystone pipeline, complaining about how it's caused the price to do business to go dramatically up. Here's a couple interesting excerpts:

The refiners argue that construction overruns have raised the cost of shipping on the Canadian portion of Keystone by 145 per cent while the U.S. portion has run 92 per cent over budget.

So far, the overbuild pain has been borne by those who are shipping oil.

So, it seems to me that it does make sense that the project could have the negative effects described by the website. But I want more information. At the very least, I am now glad that Obama has not yet made a decision to go forward. I want a full and thorough consideration to be given to make sure that this will be good for our citizens.

 

[percysunshine]

Increasing the supply of a commodity increases the price?

Like ... reconcile that with the price of beer at a wet t-shirt contest.

Liberals never were very good at economics, logic, or math.

The nubers cane fron the Canadian Company that would buil the pipeline. Did you read the story? I'm guessing you don't know how oil markets work.

There is no such reference in your link.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Increasing the supply of a commodity increases the price?

Like ... reconcile that with the price of beer at a wet t-shirt contest.

Liberals never were very good at economics, logic, or math.

The nubers cane fron the Canadian Company that would buil the pipeline. Did you read the story? I'm guessing you don't know how oil markets work.

There is no such reference in your link.

Actually, the link says the information is derived from analysis by Canada's National Energy Board. I'd like to see that analysis. So far I can't find anything. Not sure if anything is available on the internet.

 

[percysunshine]

So, what are the generally accepted rules of supply, demand, and price?

When twelve super models show up at my Penthouse, all at the same time, guess who gets to set the price...

 

[Inthemiddle]

So, what are the generally accepted rules of supply, demand, and price?

When twelve super models show up at my Penthouse, all at the same time, guess who gets to set the price...

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Last time I checked, the US isn't facing a lack of supply of oil. Not only that, but it's not a simple matter of supply and demand. There are alot of additional factors that go into it. If the cost of doing business goes up for the oil companies because of this pipeline, then they're going to raise prices on the consumers.

 

[mudwhistle]

[/The construction of the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices for Midwestern Americans. In official analysis provided to the Canadian National Energy Board, TransCanada reveals that the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices throughout the Midwest and increase annual revenue to the Canadian tar sands industry in 2013 to the tune of between US $2 – $3.9 billion.1American families should not be forced to pay higher prices at the pump only to the line the pockets of the oil industry.

About Keystone XL:

•The Keystone XL pipeline is a 2,000 mile pipeline that would transport crude oil derived from Canadian tar sands from Alberta to Texas.
•The pipeline will raise gas and diesel prices in the Midwest, where they are already among the highest in the country. It is estimated that the added cost of the pipeline would be roughly equal to 15 cents per gallon, driving up the cost of living for families at a time when Americans can least afford it.
•The total drain on America’s economy and pocket books could total as much as $3.9 billion annually in 2013, according to what TransCanada told Canada’s National Energy Board.
•Any jobs created will be offset by the higher price of gas and the layoffs that result from the higher cost of doing business. Further, they will be temporary and may not go to local residents, or even Americans.
•TransCanada will generate billions of dollars in profits at the expense of American consumers, and that money will go back to Canada, deepening the U.S. deficit.
•The pipeline will facilitate Canadian crude oil exports to China, not the United States. The market for Canadian crude oil in the Gulf is small. Americans wouldn’t benefit from the crude oil piped in through the Keystone XL.

QUOTE]

Mid West Gas Prices - Dirty Oil Sands | A Threat to the New Energy Economy

How the fuck does another source of oil raise prices, numb-nuts?????

 

[percysunshine]

So, what are the generally accepted rules of supply, demand, and price?

When twelve super models show up at my Penthouse, all at the same time, guess who gets to set the price...

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Last time I checked, the US isn't facing a lack of supply of oil. Not only that, but it's not a simple matter of supply and demand. There are alot of additional factors that go into it. If the cost of doing business goes up for the oil companies because of this pipeline, then they're going to raise prices on the consumers.

If the price was going to be higher, they would never build the pipeline. Think of it as 'the next supermodel in line' principle. Shell will sell Gulf crude cheaper. Or the Mexico supermodel will sell her wares cheaper than the Canadian supermodel....get the drift?

 

[Inthemiddle]

If the price was going to be higher, they would never build the pipeline. Think of it as 'the next supermodel in line' principle. Shell will sell Gulf crude cheaper. Or the Mexico supermodel will sell her wares cheaper than the Canadian supermodel....get the drift?

I think you're misunderstanding who the players are here. The pipeline isn't going to be built by oil companies. Trans Canada is an infrastructure company. They operate pipelines. Oil companies have to pay them to move the oil. Trans Canada charges tolls for usage of the pipelines in order to make their profit.

There are several things that seem to be causing Trans Canada to increase its tolls on the oil companies. And an over abundance of supply in existing pipelines is one of them. Paying for continuing construction is also contributing. The rise in tolls that Trans Canada charges to the oil companies ends up being passed to the consumer at the pump.

Trans Canada is unaffected by whether pump prices rise or fall. Their interest is to try to increase their slice of the market for operating distribution infrastructure.

 

[Truthseeker420]

[/The construction of the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices for Midwestern Americans. In official analysis provided to the Canadian National Energy Board, TransCanada reveals that the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices throughout the Midwest and increase annual revenue to the Canadian tar sands industry in 2013 to the tune of between US $2 – $3.9 billion.1American families should not be forced to pay higher prices at the pump only to the line the pockets of the oil industry.

About Keystone XL:

•The Keystone XL pipeline is a 2,000 mile pipeline that would transport crude oil derived from Canadian tar sands from Alberta to Texas.
•The pipeline will raise gas and diesel prices in the Midwest, where they are already among the highest in the country. It is estimated that the added cost of the pipeline would be roughly equal to 15 cents per gallon, driving up the cost of living for families at a time when Americans can least afford it.
•The total drain on America’s economy and pocket books could total as much as $3.9 billion annually in 2013, according to what TransCanada told Canada’s National Energy Board.
•Any jobs created will be offset by the higher price of gas and the layoffs that result from the higher cost of doing business. Further, they will be temporary and may not go to local residents, or even Americans.
•TransCanada will generate billions of dollars in profits at the expense of American consumers, and that money will go back to Canada, deepening the U.S. deficit.
•The pipeline will facilitate Canadian crude oil exports to China, not the United States. The market for Canadian crude oil in the Gulf is small. Americans wouldn’t benefit from the crude oil piped in through the Keystone XL.

QUOTE]

Mid West Gas Prices - Dirty Oil Sands | A Threat to the New Energy Economy

How the fuck does another source of oil raise prices, numb-nuts?????

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers
•By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
•TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
•Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.
•According to an independent analysis U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from the Canadian market manipulation

Key Facts on Keystone XL | Tar Sands Action

My nuts are cool not numb because ther are so far from my body.

 

[bripat9643]

If the price was going to be higher, they would never build the pipeline. Think of it as 'the next supermodel in line' principle. Shell will sell Gulf crude cheaper. Or the Mexico supermodel will sell her wares cheaper than the Canadian supermodel....get the drift?

I think you're misunderstanding who the players are here. The pipeline isn't going to be built by oil companies. Trans Canada is an infrastructure company. They operate pipelines. Oil companies have to pay them to move the oil. Trans Canada charges tolls for usage of the pipelines in order to make their profit.

There are several things that seem to be causing Trans Canada to increase its tolls on the oil companies. And an over abundance of supply in existing pipelines is one of them. Paying for continuing construction is also contributing. The rise in tolls that Trans Canada charges to the oil companies ends up being passed to the consumer at the pump.

Trans Canada is unaffected by whether pump prices rise or fall. Their interest is to try to increase their slice of the market for operating distribution infrastructure.

You're forgetting the trucking companies and railroads also charge tolls. Their tolls are higher than the ones pipelines charge. The pipeline will make oil cheaper, not more expensive. You're assuming that the oil will magically get to market at no cost if the pipeline isn't built. Why would any oil producer use the pipeline if trucks and railroads were cheaper?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow. Oil: the one commodity impervious to the normal laws of supply and demand.

Then you wonder how Libs ran up annual trillion deficits, got us downgraded and at 84% full employment.

Just fucking wow

 

[percysunshine]

If the price was going to be higher, they would never build the pipeline. Think of it as 'the next supermodel in line' principle. Shell will sell Gulf crude cheaper. Or the Mexico supermodel will sell her wares cheaper than the Canadian supermodel....get the drift?

I think you're misunderstanding who the players are here. The pipeline isn't going to be built by oil companies. Trans Canada is an infrastructure company. They operate pipelines. Oil companies have to pay them to move the oil. Trans Canada charges tolls for usage of the pipelines in order to make their profit.

There are several things that seem to be causing Trans Canada to increase its tolls on the oil companies. And an over abundance of supply in existing pipelines is one of them. Paying for continuing construction is also contributing. The rise in tolls that Trans Canada charges to the oil companies ends up being passed to the consumer at the pump.

Trans Canada is unaffected by whether pump prices rise or fall. Their interest is to try to increase their slice of the market for operating distribution infrastructure.

" an over abundance of supply in existing pipelines is one of them"

Come on...think about that for a moment. The price per supermodel goes up when more of them show up at my door? Never happens.

Who ever forks over the upfront money to construct the pipeline is assuming a supply/demand environment that will alow cost recovery over the life of the delivery system. Otherwise, they would not take the risk of the multi-billion dollar investment. Their view of competing super model supply would indicate that it is more expensive than their delivery system.

This isn't rocket science...it is more like sex.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Don't forget the fact you are stealing peoples land to build this pipeline.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The American Left is economically to the left of genuine Communists

 

[CrusaderFrank]

How do Democrats draw more than 2% of the vote? Who thinks Dems are looking to improve the economy?