Obama Got It Right: Tar Sands Pipeline Would Drive Up Prices

[Luddly Neddite]

And whick party is responsible for our finite refining capacity? You are aware that oil companies want to build bigger, better, safer, more efficient refineries don't you? Who keeps holding them up? The same people who oppose building the pipeline. The same people who think they can power their cars on sunlight and wind. The Democrats.

It seems that you do not understand the economics of supply and demand. You REALLY think the oil corps cannot build more refining capacity? If there is more refined gasoline available to the American public the price at the pump would drop accordingly along with the profits to the oil corps. You REALLY think that with all of the clout of the current profit of big oil that they could not lobby for places to build refineries? Blaming high gas prices on any one political party is beyond ignorant.

The last refinery built in the US was in 1976.

So much for that all-powerful Big Oil lobby.

So, you think that the refinery must be located in the US in order to be profitable to Big Oil lobbyists?

You sure you wanna go with that?

 

[BlindBoo]

And whick party is responsible for our finite refining capacity? You are aware that oil companies want to build bigger, better, safer, more efficient refineries don't you? Who keeps holding them up? The same people who oppose building the pipeline. The same people who think they can power their cars on sunlight and wind. The Democrats.

It seems that you do not understand the economics of supply and demand. You REALLY think the oil corps cannot build more refining capacity? If there is more refined gasoline available to the American public the price at the pump would drop accordingly along with the profits to the oil corps. You REALLY think that with all of the clout of the current profit of big oil that they could not lobby for places to build refineries? Blaming high gas prices on any one political party is beyond ignorant.

The last refinery built in the US was in 1976.

So much for that all-powerful Big Oil lobby.

While the number of operating refineries has fallen from 254 in 1982 to 137 in 2011, the operating capacity of today's 137 facilities is over 830,000 barrels per day more than it was in 1982. Basically, while we've watched 117 refineries close, capacity has risen. (The Energy Information Administration's earliest records date to 1982.)

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's.

No New Oil Refineries Since the 1970s, But Capacity Has Grown - Energy Intelligence (usnews.com)

 

[uscitizen]

Please explain how having a greater supply of something will drive the price up absent and insane amount of greater demand.

If "The extra Supply" was for our use you would be correct. The system is being gamed right now as much of the oil produced here is refined for other markets. More production for these other markets means less available for our domestic consumption as the capacity of the refineries is finite. I hope you understand the significance of this information. If the American public does not "Get This" we will be all paying a lot more for gasoline and all your bellyaching about Obama will not make it OK. Some of the republicans in Congress will do ANYTHING to make Obama look bad...even let the multinational oil companies rob billions from us by artificially restricting how much refined gasoline is available from the very oil that comes out of the ground here in our country.

So, you're saying that the oil companies will refine this oil for foreign consumption only and will ignore the US as a customer, thus driving our prices up because there won't be enough supply for us? How do you manage to put your pants on each morning?

The oil company's will tend to sell to the highest bidder.
Corporations as individuals often have piss poor patriotism.

 

[Inthemiddle]

You're forgetting the trucking companies and railroads also charge tolls. Their tolls are higher than the ones pipelines charge. The pipeline will make oil cheaper, not more expensive. You're assuming that the oil will magically get to market at no cost if the pipeline isn't built. Why would any oil producer use the pipeline if trucks and railroads were cheaper?

Who said anything about trucking and railroads? The construction alone will require Trans Canada to pass the expense along and charge the oil companies more. Expanding piping when there is not actually a need will cause prices to increase also, because they will need to increase their tolls even more to cover the costs of their vast infrastructure that they operate.

Part of the price of doing business asswipe. You just want it handed to you...admit it.

That was....er, a pointless oral explosion. Are you trying to now say that yes, the pipeline will increase prices, but that it's okay we should do it anyway?

 

[Crackerjack]

It seems that you do not understand the economics of supply and demand. You REALLY think the oil corps cannot build more refining capacity? If there is more refined gasoline available to the American public the price at the pump would drop accordingly along with the profits to the oil corps. You REALLY think that with all of the clout of the current profit of big oil that they could not lobby for places to build refineries? Blaming high gas prices on any one political party is beyond ignorant.

The last refinery built in the US was in 1976.

So much for that all-powerful Big Oil lobby.

While the number of operating refineries has fallen from 254 in 1982 to 137 in 2011, the operating capacity of today's 137 facilities is over 830,000 barrels per day more than it was in 1982. Basically, while we've watched 117 refineries close, capacity has risen. (The Energy Information Administration's earliest records date to 1982.)

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's.

No New Oil Refineries Since the 1970s, But Capacity Has Grown - Energy Intelligence (usnews.com)

Precisely. Since it's literally impossible to build a new refinery, they add on to what they've got.

 

[Crackerjack]

Land and right of way aquisition?

Using eminent domain for a private venture?

they should be real capitalists instead of using the government.
Pay whatever the market demands for the right of way.

A very small number of tracts go to eminent domain proceedings, where they are given what the market will pay.

Anyway, I'd love to hear how you'd build a pipeline (that lowers the cost of petroleum, which lowers the cost of EVERYTHING) in a cost effective manner without it. Obviously you've got all the answers.

I figured you wouldn't answer. Typical.

 

[tinydancer]

I'm trying to wrap my brain about a pipeline going to the Gulf to sell Canadian oil to China.

Ok. Now my brain really hurts. I've seen this argument before from individuals who obviously have no concept of geography.

Why would we go all the way to the Gulf to sell oil to China?

If the line isn't built? the OIL will go to China.

It's bitumen. China doesn't have the refineries to handle the sludge. It will be piped to the gulf refineriers that are geared up to refine it. Then the refined product will be sold on the open market.

Bitumen is simply another term for oil. China can refine oil in any form no matter how dirty or clean.

Any sludge will be handled by the totalitarian government in any fashion or form it wishes.

The so called sludge can be dumped into open pits and left there for centuries because there is no EPA in China to complain about a dozen ducks landing in the pits.

China needs every drop of fuel and will refine anything to get it and they have massive capacity to do so.

The refined product that you so brilliantly referred to is called American Made Gasoline using Canadian oil in order to produce it.

You may now sell your gasoline to China without owing them your left nut and you can thank your Canadian friends and allies and we don't want to behead you either for that.

Here endeth the lesson.

You may now put your seat in an upright position and extract your head from your ass.

My husband Traveller was ticked off at your post. He is a scientist. He gets testy and has issues with stupidity that he saw in truthseekers? thread.

lol, come on guys.

yours, td

 

[kwc57]

If "The extra Supply" was for our use you would be correct. The system is being gamed right now as much of the oil produced here is refined for other markets. More production for these other markets means less available for our domestic consumption as the capacity of the refineries is finite. I hope you understand the significance of this information. If the American public does not "Get This" we will be all paying a lot more for gasoline and all your bellyaching about Obama will not make it OK. Some of the republicans in Congress will do ANYTHING to make Obama look bad...even let the multinational oil companies rob billions from us by artificially restricting how much refined gasoline is available from the very oil that comes out of the ground here in our country.

So, you're saying that the oil companies will refine this oil for foreign consumption only and will ignore the US as a customer, thus driving our prices up because there won't be enough supply for us? How do you manage to put your pants on each morning?

The oil company's will tend to sell to the highest bidder.
Corporations as individuals often have piss poor patriotism.

And if I can move my widgets in a handcart across the street instead of having to ship them on an 18 wheeler across the country, i'll do it. Hell, I'll ship them too, but I can charge virtually the same price for my widget with onlt half the headaches by going local. Corporations do have piss poor patriotism, but they know how to save on costs to maximize profit too.

 

[HUGGY]

Please explain how having a greater supply of something will drive the price up absent and insane amount of greater demand.

If "The extra Supply" was for our use you would be correct. The system is being gamed right now as much of the oil produced here is refined for other markets. More production for these other markets means less available for our domestic consumption as the capacity of the refineries is finite. I hope you understand the significance of this information. If the American public does not "Get This" we will be all paying a lot more for gasoline and all your bellyaching about Obama will not make it OK. Some of the republicans in Congress will do ANYTHING to make Obama look bad...even let the multinational oil companies rob billions from us by artificially restricting how much refined gasoline is available from the very oil that comes out of the ground here in our country.

So, you're saying that the oil companies will refine this oil for foreign consumption only and will ignore the US as a customer, thus driving our prices up because there won't be enough supply for us? How do you manage to put your pants on each morning?

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying and it is happening right now.

 

[Mr. H.]

If "The extra Supply" was for our use you would be correct. The system is being gamed right now as much of the oil produced here is refined for other markets. More production for these other markets means less available for our domestic consumption as the capacity of the refineries is finite. I hope you understand the significance of this information. If the American public does not "Get This" we will be all paying a lot more for gasoline and all your bellyaching about Obama will not make it OK. Some of the republicans in Congress will do ANYTHING to make Obama look bad...even let the multinational oil companies rob billions from us by artificially restricting how much refined gasoline is available from the very oil that comes out of the ground here in our country.

So, you're saying that the oil companies will refine this oil for foreign consumption only and will ignore the US as a customer, thus driving our prices up because there won't be enough supply for us? How do you manage to put your pants on each morning?

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying and it is happening right now.

"Sober Mr. H." here...

At any given moment, there are nearly a quarter of a million barrels (over 40 million gallons) of gasoline in inventories, stored at various sights around the U.S.

If you look at the graph in this EIA link, you'll see that, other than seasonal draws and adds, the supply of gasoline is fairly constant.

Weekly U.S. Ending Stocks of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels)

With that much inventory, why would the petroleum industry continually add gasoline to stocks that are already sufficiently maintained?

And similarly, why is the agriculture industry exporting millions of metric tons of grain, year in and year out, while we pay record prices for our groceries?

 

[uscitizen]

The last refinery built in the US was in 1976.

So much for that all-powerful Big Oil lobby.

While the number of operating refineries has fallen from 254 in 1982 to 137 in 2011, the operating capacity of today's 137 facilities is over 830,000 barrels per day more than it was in 1982. Basically, while we've watched 117 refineries close, capacity has risen. (The Energy Information Administration's earliest records date to 1982.)

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's.

No New Oil Refineries Since the 1970s, But Capacity Has Grown - Energy Intelligence (usnews.com)

Precisely. Since it's literally impossible to build a new refinery, they add on to what they've got.

But bush promised to get refineries built on unused military lands.

 

[Crackerjack]

While the number of operating refineries has fallen from 254 in 1982 to 137 in 2011, the operating capacity of today's 137 facilities is over 830,000 barrels per day more than it was in 1982. Basically, while we've watched 117 refineries close, capacity has risen. (The Energy Information Administration's earliest records date to 1982.)

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's.

No New Oil Refineries Since the 1970s, But Capacity Has Grown - Energy Intelligence (usnews.com)

Precisely. Since it's literally impossible to build a new refinery, they add on to what they've got.

But bush promised to get refineries built on unused military lands.

So?

 

[freedombecki]

So, you're saying that the oil companies will refine this oil for foreign consumption only and will ignore the US as a customer, thus driving our prices up because there won't be enough supply for us? How do you manage to put your pants on each morning?

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying and it is happening right now.

"Sober Mr. H." here...

At any given moment, there are nearly a quarter of a million barrels (over 40 million gallons) of gasoline in inventories, stored at various sights around the U.S.

If you look at the graph in this EIA link, you'll see that, other than seasonal draws and adds, the supply of gasoline is fairly constant.

Weekly U.S. Ending Stocks of Total Gasoline (Thousand Barrels)

With that much inventory, why would the petroleum industry continually add gasoline to stocks that are already sufficiently maintained?

And similarly, why is the agriculture industry exporting millions of metric tons of grain, year in and year out, while we pay record prices for our groceries?

Yeah, Mr. H., you're right.

I'd just add that when our businesses do it it's media-bad because they make a profit. When their businesses make money, we pay more so "they" will like us, which is media-good. That hasn't worked out so well, either.

 

[freedombecki]

While the number of operating refineries has fallen from 254 in 1982 to 137 in 2011, the operating capacity of today's 137 facilities is over 830,000 barrels per day more than it was in 1982. Basically, while we've watched 117 refineries close, capacity has risen. (The Energy Information Administration's earliest records date to 1982.)

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's.

No New Oil Refineries Since the 1970s, But Capacity Has Grown - Energy Intelligence (usnews.com)

Precisely. Since it's literally impossible to build a new refinery, they add on to what they've got.

But bush promised to get refineries built on unused military lands.

Well, doh, uscitizen, he was certain an adult would be in the white house following his administration.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Precisely. Since it's literally impossible to build a new refinery, they add on to what they've got.

But bush promised to get refineries built on unused military lands.

Well, doh, uscitizen, he was certain an adult would be in the white house following his administration.

Bush figured there couldn't be someone else as dumb as him?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

[/The construction of the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices for Midwestern Americans. In official analysis provided to the Canadian National Energy Board, TransCanada reveals that the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices throughout the Midwest and increase annual revenue to the Canadian tar sands industry in 2013 to the tune of between US $2 – $3.9 billion.1American families should not be forced to pay higher prices at the pump only to the line the pockets of the oil industry.

About Keystone XL:

•The Keystone XL pipeline is a 2,000 mile pipeline that would transport crude oil derived from Canadian tar sands from Alberta to Texas.
•The pipeline will raise gas and diesel prices in the Midwest, where they are already among the highest in the country. It is estimated that the added cost of the pipeline would be roughly equal to 15 cents per gallon, driving up the cost of living for families at a time when Americans can least afford it.
•The total drain on America’s economy and pocket books could total as much as $3.9 billion annually in 2013, according to what TransCanada told Canada’s National Energy Board.
•Any jobs created will be offset by the higher price of gas and the layoffs that result from the higher cost of doing business. Further, they will be temporary and may not go to local residents, or even Americans.
•TransCanada will generate billions of dollars in profits at the expense of American consumers, and that money will go back to Canada, deepening the U.S. deficit.
•The pipeline will facilitate Canadian crude oil exports to China, not the United States. The market for Canadian crude oil in the Gulf is small. Americans wouldn’t benefit from the crude oil piped in through the Keystone XL.

QUOTE]

Mid West Gas Prices - Dirty Oil Sands | A Threat to the New Energy Economy

The pipeline will facilitate Canadian crude oil exports to China, not the United States

Yeah, the Canadians want to pipe the oil 2000 miles to the Gulf of Mexico so they can export it to China. (Instead of piping it to the Pacific) LOL!

 

[Truthseeker420]

Romney Sucks !

 

[Mr. H.]

Actually he blows. You suck.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Actually he blows. You suck.

lol