Obama Got It Right: Tar Sands Pipeline Would Drive Up Prices

[bripat9643]

Don't forget the fact you are stealing peoples land to build this pipeline.

No we aren't. Everyone who owns land the pipeline crosses will get paid. Furthermore, the pipeline company only needs a right of way. Farmers will still be able to graze their cows and grow corn directly on top of the pipeline. No one would even know it was there if it wasn't for the markers posted every quarter mile.

 

[percysunshine]

Don't forget the fact you are stealing peoples land to build this pipeline.

The land owners charge the pipeline company a fee for permission to cross their property.

You are kind of making this stuff up as you go along...I can tell.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Don't forget the fact you are stealing peoples land to build this pipeline.

No we aren't. Everyone who owns land the pipeline crosses will get paid. Furthermore, the pipeline company only needs a right of way. Farmers will still be able to graze their cows and grow corn directly on top of the pipeline. No would even know it was there if it wasn't for the markers posted every quarter mile.

I'm sure the farmers will say the government can keep their chump change. forced selling is still stealing.

 

[Inthemiddle]

You're forgetting the trucking companies and railroads also charge tolls. Their tolls are higher than the ones pipelines charge. The pipeline will make oil cheaper, not more expensive. You're assuming that the oil will magically get to market at no cost if the pipeline isn't built. Why would any oil producer use the pipeline if trucks and railroads were cheaper?

Who said anything about trucking and railroads? The construction alone will require Trans Canada to pass the expense along and charge the oil companies more. Expanding piping when there is not actually a need will cause prices to increase also, because they will need to increase their tolls even more to cover the costs of their vast infrastructure that they operate.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Come on...think about that for a moment. The price per supermodel goes up when more of them show up at my door? Never happens.

Why are you talking about super models? Let's stick to oil and delivery infrastructure.

An over abundance of "supply" of piping causes the price to rice on the oil that is moving through the pipes. When the pipes are operating at low capacity, the tolls increase.

Who ever forks over the upfront money to construct the pipeline is assuming a supply/demand environment that will alow cost recovery over the life of the delivery system.

Go read the newspaper article I posted. Overruns in the construction of the Keystone are already contributing to increased tolls on the oil moving through the pipes. What do you think happens when oil refineries pay more to move their oil through the pipes? That's right, pump prices increase to offset the increased price of doing business.

Otherwise, they would not take the risk of the multi-billion dollar investment.

You're interchanging supply and demand for oil with supply of piping. Trans Canada already has an over abundance of piping. But the refineries still have to move their product, and they're contractually obligated to move it through Trans Canada's pipes. So Trans Canada just increases the tolls to maintain the entirety of the system.

This isn't rocket science...it is more like sex.

Dude, go get laid. It's obvious that you're just not thinking clearly. Too many distractions going on in your head, apparently.

 

[whitehall]

left wingers thrive on crisis. Barry and the boys have found that the best way to keep Americans miserable and poor is to keep energy prices high. You can bet your ass-ets that B. Hussein will veto any bill like a pipe line that might lower oil prices and the A-holes who support him will twist logic like a pretzel to try to justify him.

 

[Douger]

If Osama bin Soetoro would have nationalized the energy sector that statement would be FALSE.

 

[Trajan]

[/The construction of the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices for Midwestern Americans. In official analysis provided to the Canadian National Energy Board, TransCanada reveals that the Keystone XL pipeline will raise oil prices throughout the Midwest and increase annual revenue to the Canadian tar sands industry in 2013 to the tune of between US $2 – $3.9 billion.1American families should not be forced to pay higher prices at the pump only to the line the pockets of the oil industry.

About Keystone XL:

•The Keystone XL pipeline is a 2,000 mile pipeline that would transport crude oil derived from Canadian tar sands from Alberta to Texas.
•The pipeline will raise gas and diesel prices in the Midwest, where they are already among the highest in the country. It is estimated that the added cost of the pipeline would be roughly equal to 15 cents per gallon, driving up the cost of living for families at a time when Americans can least afford it.
•The total drain on America’s economy and pocket books could total as much as $3.9 billion annually in 2013, according to what TransCanada told Canada’s National Energy Board.
•Any jobs created will be offset by the higher price of gas and the layoffs that result from the higher cost of doing business. Further, they will be temporary and may not go to local residents, or even Americans.
•TransCanada will generate billions of dollars in profits at the expense of American consumers, and that money will go back to Canada, deepening the U.S. deficit.
•The pipeline will facilitate Canadian crude oil exports to China, not the United States. The market for Canadian crude oil in the Gulf is small. Americans wouldn’t benefit from the crude oil piped in through the Keystone XL.

QUOTE]

Mid West Gas Prices - Dirty Oil Sands | A Threat to the New Energy Economy

absolute crap. dirty oil sand .com is off their rocker. do you do any thinking for yourself or any other research or just look for advocacy sites to post from with zero objectivity?

 

[Trajan]

Don't forget the fact you are stealing peoples land to build this pipeline.

stealing? how about a Big Pharma factory that never got built?

 

[percysunshine]

Inthemiddle: Why are you talking about super models? Let's stick to oil and delivery infrastructure.

An over abundance of "supply" of piping causes the price to rice on the oil that is moving through the pipes. When the pipes are operating at low capacity, the tolls increase.

Super models...barrels of oil ...same thing. They are commodities.

The transportation fees are usually per barrel tolls, regardles of volume. Not that it matters. The lowest cost provider of a crude cocktail always wins at the refinery gate.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm sure the farmers will say the government can keep their chump change. forced selling is still stealing.

So you are opposed to the government using eminent domain to build a school or a highway?

 

[grunt11b]

Obama's a moron. And believe me, if building this pipeline would hurt people in the middle class on gas and oil prices, Obama would have signed off on it a long time ago.

 

[bripat9643]

You're forgetting the trucking companies and railroads also charge tolls. Their tolls are higher than the ones pipelines charge. The pipeline will make oil cheaper, not more expensive. You're assuming that the oil will magically get to market at no cost if the pipeline isn't built. Why would any oil producer use the pipeline if trucks and railroads were cheaper?

Who said anything about trucking and railroads? The construction alone will require Trans Canada to pass the expense along and charge the oil companies more. Expanding piping when there is not actually a need will cause prices to increase also, because they will need to increase their tolls even more to cover the costs of their vast infrastructure that they operate.

IF the oil isn't going to market via pipeline or truck or rail, then how is it getting to the market? The cost of transporting the oil is always passed on to the consumer, but the cost of transporting it by pipeline is the lowest. Who is going to "increase the cost of their tolls?" When you build a new toll highway 'A,' does that force you to increase the fair on toll highway 'B?' How did you determine there wasn't a need?

Does anything you say have any connection with reality?

 

[Truthseeker420]

I'm sure the farmers will say the government can keep their chump change. forced selling is still stealing.

So you are opposed to the government using eminent domain to build a school or a highway?

for public service yes, for big business to make profits no

 

[percysunshine]

I'm sure the farmers will say the government can keep their chump change. forced selling is still stealing.

So you are opposed to the government using eminent domain to build a school or a highway?

for public service yes, for big bussines to make profits no

So the exploding Chevy Volt is not on your Christmas list this year?

 

[bripat9643]

Why are you talking about super models? Let's stick to oil and delivery infrastructure.

An over abundance of "supply" of piping causes the price to rice on the oil that is moving through the pipes. When the pipes are operating at low capacity, the tolls increase.

He's providing you an analogy, but you are obviously too thick to follow it. How does oil differ from any other commodity? When did an increase in supply ever cause an increase in the price of a commodity? Have you ever taken an economics course?

Who claims pipelines are operating at low capacity? If there was already sufficient capacity, then why would a private company invest money in new capacity? Are you accusing the owners of the pipeline company of being stupid?

Go read the newspaper article I posted. Overruns in the construction of the Keystone are already contributing to increased tolls on the oil moving through the pipes.

According to whom?

What do you think happens when oil refineries pay more to move their oil through the pipes? That's right, pump prices increase to offset the increased price of doing business.

First you have to demonstrate that they will pay more.

You're interchanging supply and demand for oil with supply of piping. Trans Canada already has an over abundance of piping. But the refineries still have to move their product, and they're contractually obligated to move it through Trans Canada's pipes. So Trans Canada just increases the tolls to maintain the entirety of the system.

I find that hard to believe. What stops the oil companies from making a deal with a different company? The idea that an oil company would sign a contract that makes the hostage to whatever price some pipeline company chooses to charge doesn't pass the laugh test. You're just making shit up.

This isn't rocket science...it is more like sex.

Dude, go get laid. It's obvious that you're just not thinking clearly. Too many distractions going on in your head, apparently.

You're just a vast geyser of horseshit.

 

[Truthseeker420]

So you are opposed to the government using eminent domain to build a school or a highway?

for public service yes, for big bussines to make profits no

So the exploding Chevy Volt is not on your Christmas list this year?

If I spend 30 G's on a car it will be a Camaro.

 

[bripat9643]

I'm sure the farmers will say the government can keep their chump change. forced selling is still stealing.

So you are opposed to the government using eminent domain to build a school or a highway?

for public service yes, for big bussines to make profits no

So forced stealing is OK for projects you approve of? How noble of you!

It's not clear eminent domain has even been contemplated. Farmers generally aren't reluctant to let pipelines cross their land, especially when there's a significant cash payment involved.

Furthermore, big business is generally on the feeding end whenever eminent domain is used. When they built the new Denver Airport, it was sickening to see all the pro airport propaganda published by local construction companies and other business that stood to benefit. The coffee tables at the local community centers had piles 3 foot high of it.

 

[percysunshine]

for public service yes, for big bussines to make profits no

So the exploding Chevy Volt is not on your Christmas list this year?

If I spend 30 G's on a car it will be a Camaro.

Ha! You conservative big carbon footprint pig....chuckle

 

[Truthseeker420]

So the exploding Chevy Volt is not on your Christmas list this year?

If I spend 30 G's on a car it will be a Camaro.

Ha! You conservative big carbon footprint pig....chuckle

Hey... I recycle.