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I see you are suffering from butt hurt. How sad.I should think? You just admitted you weren't a liberal, exactly what I stated.Maybe you should try to figure that out before you open your mouth?
What I am is a pragmatist. I look at the most pragmatic solution to a problem, ignore the partisan bullshit, and come up with a workable solution. When something isn't working, or worse, is actually causing a problem, I oppose it. Period.
I think Obama should go. I think he's a well intentioned guy who is in waaaaaay over his head. It's not so much left or right, it's the fact that his life experiences have not prepared him for the job he is doing now, and he leaves people with no confidence.
That said, I won't support Romney. Weird religion, sleazy business practices, will say whatever you think you want to hear. I don't think he's "well intentioned".
I can support Newt right now, because Newt is a pragmatist.
I think you are JButtemia, back as a sock.
Never said I was a liberal. I said before you start making assumptions, you should actually try to understand where the person is coming from....
But that'd probably be a bit to complicated for you. It would involve reading comprehension and not googling for pictures of women in bizarre hats.
I see you are suffering from butt hurt. How sad.I should think? You just admitted you weren't a liberal, exactly what I stated.
I think you are JButtemia, back as a sock.
Never said I was a liberal. I said before you start making assumptions, you should actually try to understand where the person is coming from....
But that'd probably be a bit to complicated for you. It would involve reading comprehension and not googling for pictures of women in bizarre hats.
I see you are suffering from butt hurt. How sad.Never said I was a liberal. I said before you start making assumptions, you should actually try to understand where the person is coming from....
But that'd probably be a bit to complicated for you. It would involve reading comprehension and not googling for pictures of women in bizarre hats.
No, I just think that as a liberal poster, you are one of the weaker ones.
There are liberals here I respect. They come here with real arguments and they bother to do their research.
you just run around acting all offended about stuff. It's kind of funny.
Oh, I'm stung!I see you are suffering from butt hurt. How sad.Never said I was a liberal. I said before you start making assumptions, you should actually try to understand where the person is coming from....
But that'd probably be a bit to complicated for you. It would involve reading comprehension and not googling for pictures of women in bizarre hats.
No, I just think that as a liberal poster, you are one of the weaker ones.
There are liberals here I respect. They come here with real arguments and they bother to do their research.
you just run around acting all offended about stuff. It's kind of funny.
Oh, I'm stung!I see you are suffering from butt hurt. How sad.
No, I just think that as a liberal poster, you are one of the weaker ones.
There are liberals here I respect. They come here with real arguments and they bother to do their research.
you just run around acting all offended about stuff. It's kind of funny.
This from a doofus that lies about other posters, thinks Mitten will turn the country Mormon, thinks the media never questions Mitten, and loves Newtie....someone who probably really did have something to do with our financial woes.
Oh, I'm stung!No, I just think that as a liberal poster, you are one of the weaker ones.
There are liberals here I respect. They come here with real arguments and they bother to do their research.
you just run around acting all offended about stuff. It's kind of funny.
This from a doofus that lies about other posters, thinks Mitten will turn the country Mormon, thinks the media never questions Mitten, and loves Newtie....someone who probably really did have something to do with our financial woes.
I just point out what they brag about... I usually assume most people embellish their lives on the internet.
And, sorry, the Media has given Mittens a HUGE pass compared to the other guys. Not to mention the fact he's avoiding interviews. But given how he lost his shit with Brett Baier, I can kind of see why he does.
Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true.[Note 1][1] As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs.
Somehow, Toto thinks he's found a relevent point....
Somehow, Toto thinks he's found a relevent point....
You have 4850 posts and I'm still trying to find one you've made.
Somehow, Toto thinks he's found a relevent point....
You have 4850 posts and I'm still trying to find one you've made.
Well, you've been stalking me for long enough. You are even making LISTS of my supposed political heresies.
"isn't that a bit over the top"...
who dumb themself- Freddie Mac lobbyist
- Supporter of ethanol
- Called Paul Ryan's budget "right-wing social engineering."
And now, he's for granting amnesty to illegal aliens. From the CNN debate
In a statement likely to resonate beyond the debate, Mr. Gingrich also advocated a program that would allow immigrants who have been in the country illegally for years to gain legal status but not citizenship.
"I want to be tough, but I'm not willing to kid people," the former House speaker said on CNN after the debate. "I can't imagine any serious person in this country that wants to tear families apart that have been here for 20 years." Texas Gov. Rick Perry lost his perch atop the polls after adopting a sympathetic approach to illegal immigrants during a September debate.
Newt Gingrich Calls for Regime Change in Iran - WSJ.com
Newt's moving to broaden his support.
Clever. Clever.
It's almost like they have to dumb themselves down to win the primary.
On that note, not a clever move to make now. It would be clever in the primary. He should have made some sort of sufficiently bland statement in the primary so he wouldn't look like a complete fucking hypocrite in the primary.
You have 4850 posts and I'm still trying to find one you've made.
Well, you've been stalking me for long enough. You are even making LISTS of my supposed political heresies.
"isn't that a bit over the top"...
I have a good memory.
And I have a thing about bigotry. And considering you've flooded the board with your anti-Mormon bigotry, you aren't exactly hard to find.
Well, you've been stalking me for long enough. You are even making LISTS of my supposed political heresies.
"isn't that a bit over the top"...
I have a good memory.
And I have a thing about bigotry. And considering you've flooded the board with your anti-Mormon bigotry, you aren't exactly hard to find.
No, guy, you repeated the same list a couple of times.... so I don't think you are writing it from scratch each time.
And back to the whining about how I'm just such a meanie to Mormons.
I'm sorry, guy, I don't give batshit crazy beliefs a pass because you call it a religion.
You call it bigotry, I call it a judgement.
If Mitt got out there and claimed that his economic program was to write a really nice letter to Santa Claus, we wouldn't say "well, he's entitled to his beliefs". If he further ignored evidence that there wasn't a workshop at the North Pole where they are making Wii's out of wood, they even show him the satellite pictures proving it, we'd assume there was something seriously wrong with him.
But you call it a "religion", and then suddenly, we aren't supposed to ever question it. Really.
Sorry, man, I'm going to ask questions. I don't want a guy who thinks he's going to be a God in the afterlife having control of the nukes.
And back to the whining about how I'm just such a meanie to Mormons.
I'm sorry, guy, I don't give batshit crazy beliefs a pass because you call it a religion.
You call it bigotry, I call it a judgement.
If Mitt got out there and claimed that his economic program was to write a really nice letter to Santa Claus, we wouldn't say "well, he's entitled to his beliefs". If he further ignored evidence that there wasn't a workshop at the North Pole where they are making Wii's out of wood, they even show him the satellite pictures proving it, we'd assume there was something seriously wrong with him.
But you call it a "religion", and then suddenly, we aren't supposed to ever question it. Really.
Sorry, man, I'm going to ask questions. I don't want a guy who thinks he's going to be a God in the afterlife having control of the nukes.
I don't have a problem with people raising questions about another's religion when running for office, but only if we think they are going to impose their religion on the country. The problem I have is disqualifying a whole group of people simply because of their religion, which is what you're doing. Rick Perry's evangelicalism makes me queasy - what, with the whole prayer rallies and praying for rain and all - but if I thought he was the best candidate to get us out of this mess, I could care less about his religion. Mormonism is weird to me, and if I thought Romney was going to impose his religion on the country, I wouldn't consider supporting him for a second. But there is zero evidence that he would do that. "He's a Mormon" isn't good enough for me to not support him anymore than "He's a Jew" or "He's a black person" or "She's a she."
You've made it clear that your opposition to him is first and foremost because he's a Mormon. I find that appalling. So I defend the guy - a guy whom I really don't like a whole lot - because I find your attacks odious.
but only if we think they are going to impose their religion on the country.
To me, that's a good enough reason. I made the mistake of trusting some Mormons once, and I paid a hefty price for that. I don't make the same mistake twice.
and to re-emphasize this...
but only if we think they are going to impose their religion on the country.
And we don't know, because the guy won't talk about his religion. He avoids the subject like the crazy old aunt he has locked in the attic.
In 2008, he said he welcomed questions about his Mormonism. Then Mike Huckabee asked one. (Incidently, they really do believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.)
in 2011, anyone asks about Mormonism, he screams about bigotry.
^...
Mitt Romney in 2007...
"America faces a new generation of challenges. Radical violent Islam seeks to destroy us. An emerging China endeavors to surpass our economic leadership. And we are troubled at home by government overspending, overuse of foreign oil, and the breakdown of the family.
"Over the last year, we have embarked on a national debate on how best to preserve American leadership. Today, I wish to address a topic which I believe is fundamental to America's greatness: our religious liberty. I will also offer perspectives on how my own faith would inform my presidency, if I were elected.
"There are some who may feel that religion is not a matter to be seriously considered in the context of the weighty threats that face us. If so, they are at odds with the nation's founders, for they, when our nation faced its greatest peril, sought the blessings of the Creator. And further, they discovered the essential connection between the survival of a free land and the protection of religious freedom. In John Adams' words: 'We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our constitution was made for a moral and religious people.'
"Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
"Given our grand tradition of religious tolerance and liberty, some wonder whether there are any questions regarding an aspiring candidate's religion that are appropriate. I believe there are. And I will answer them today.
"Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.
"Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.
"As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution - and of course, I would not do so as president. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.
"As a young man, Lincoln described what he called America's 'political religion' - the commitment to defend the rule of law and the Constitution. When I place my hand on the Bible and take the oath of office, that oath becomes my highest promise to God. If I am fortunate to become your president, I will serve no one religion, no one group, no one cause, and no one interest. A president must serve only the common cause of the people of the United States.
"There are some for whom these commitments are not enough. They would prefer it if I would simply distance myself from my religion, say that it is more a tradition than my personal conviction, or disavow one or another of its precepts. That I will not do. I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs.
"Some believe that such a confession of my faith will sink my candidacy. If they are right, so be it. But I think they underestimate the American people. Americans do not respect believers of convenience.
Americans tire of those who would jettison their beliefs, even to gain the world.
"There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree.
"There are some who would have a presidential candidate describe and explain his church's distinctive doctrines. To do so would enable the very religious test the founders prohibited in the Constitution. No candidate should become the spokesman for his faith. For if he becomes president he will need the prayers of the people of all faiths.
"I believe that every faith I have encountered draws its adherents closer to God. And in every faith I have come to know, there are features I wish were in my own: I love the profound ceremony of the Catholic Mass, the approachability of God in the prayers of the Evangelicals, the tenderness of spirit among the Pentecostals, the confident independence of the Lutherans, the ancient traditions of the Jews, unchanged through the ages, and the commitment to frequent prayer of the Muslims. As I travel across the country and see our towns and cities, I am always moved by the many houses of worship with their steeples, all pointing to heaven, reminding us of the source of life's blessings.
"It is important to recognize that while differences in theology exist between the churches in America, we share a common creed of moral convictions. And where the affairs of our nation are concerned, it's usually a sound rule to focus on the latter - on the great moral principles that urge us all on a common course. Whether it was the cause of abolition, or civil rights, or the right to life itself, no movement of conscience can succeed in America that cannot speak to the convictions of religious people.
"We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism. They are wrong.
"The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.
"We should acknowledge the Creator as did the Founders - in ceremony and word. He should remain on our currency, in our pledge, in the teaching of our history, and during the holiday season, nativity scenes and menorahs should be welcome in our public places. Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our constitution rests. I will take care to separate the affairs of government from any religion, but I will not separate us from 'the God who gave us liberty.'
"Nor would I separate us from our religious heritage. Perhaps the most important question to ask a person of faith who seeks a political office, is this: does he share these American values: the equality of human kind, the obligation to serve one another, and a steadfast commitment to liberty?
"They are not unique to any one denomination. They belong to the great moral inheritance we hold in common. They are the firm ground on which Americans of different faiths meet and stand as a nation, united.
"We believe that every single human being is a child of God - we are all part of the human family. The conviction of the inherent and inalienable worth of every life is still the most revolutionary political proposition ever advanced. John Adams put it that we are 'thrown into the world all equal and alike.'
"The consequence of our common humanity is our responsibility to one another, to our fellow Americans foremost, but also to every child of God. It is an obligation which is fulfilled by Americans every day, here and across the globe, without regard to creed or race or nationality.
"Americans acknowledge that liberty is a gift of God, not an indulgence of government. No people in the history of the world have sacrificed as much for liberty. The lives of hundreds of thousands of America's sons and daughters were laid down during the last century to preserve freedom, for us and for freedom loving people throughout the world. America took nothing from that Century's terrible wars - no land from Germany or Japan or Korea; no treasure; no oath of fealty. America's resolve in the defense of liberty has been tested time and again. It has not been found wanting, nor must it ever be. America must never falter in holding high the banner of freedom.
"These American values, this great moral heritage, is shared and lived in my religion as it is in yours. I was taught in my home to honor God and love my neighbor. I saw my father march with Martin Luther King. I saw my parents provide compassionate care to others, in personal ways to people nearby, and in just as consequential ways in leading national volunteer movements. I am moved by the Lord's words: 'For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me...'
"My faith is grounded on these truths. You can witness them in Ann and my marriage and in our family. We are a long way from perfect and we have surely stumbled along the way, but our aspirations, our values, are the self-same as those from the other faiths that stand upon this common foundation. And these convictions will indeed inform my presidency.
"Today's generations of Americans have always known religious liberty. Perhaps we forget the long and arduous path our nation's forbearers took to achieve it. They came here from England to seek freedom of religion. But upon finding it for themselves, they at first denied it to others. Because of their diverse beliefs, Ann Hutchinson was exiled from Massachusetts Bay, a banished Roger Williams founded Rhode Island, and two centuries later, Brigham Young set out for the West. Americans were unable to accommodate their commitment to their own faith with an appreciation for the convictions of others to different faiths. In this, they were very much like those of the European nations they had left.
"It was in Philadelphia that our founding fathers defined a revolutionary vision of liberty, grounded on self evident truths about the equality of all, and the inalienable rights with which each is endowed by his Creator.
"We cherish these sacred rights, and secure them in our Constitutional order. Foremost do we protect religious liberty, not as a matter of policy but as a matter of right. There will be no established church, and we are guaranteed the free exercise of our religion.
cont...
Transcript: Mitt Romney's Faith Speech : NPR
To me, that's a good enough reason. I made the mistake of trusting some Mormons once, and I paid a hefty price for that. I don't make the same mistake twice.
What was that?
To me, that's a good enough reason. I made the mistake of trusting some Mormons once, and I paid a hefty price for that. I don't make the same mistake twice.
What was that?
Let's just say that when I was in the service, I had some expereinces with Mormons that are at the root of my underlying dislike of them. I don't want to go into a lot of details because a lot of it is personal. What I walked away with were these people were 1) Weird and 2) Untrustworthy.
This, by the way, was before I ever opened the book of Mormon or started actually researching their history, and I didn't know Joseph Smith from Joe Blow. I didn't do that until years later, and then it kind of made more sense.
[/QUOTE]and to re-emphasize this...
but only if we think they are going to impose their religion on the country.
And we don't know, because the guy won't talk about his religion. He avoids the subject like the crazy old aunt he has locked in the attic.
In 2008, he said he welcomed questions about his Mormonism. Then Mike Huckabee asked one. (Incidently, they really do believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.)
in 2011, anyone asks about Mormonism, he screams about bigotry.
We've already been through this before, Joe...Mitt has made is views clear and you know it!
^
