New Poll Shows Majority Of Americans Support Religious Freedom

[auditor0007]

Let's forget religion for the moment and use a little common sense. There is a big difference in going into a store/restaurant and buying something off the shelf or menu and with contacting a business to provide a special order or service to customer specifications perhaps at the customer's location.

In the first case, the business is providing the same product or service to everyone in an enviroment that he controls, so public accommodations laws preventing discrimination are reasonable.

In the second case, it is very possible that the customer's request may not be a good fit for the business for numerous reasons. If the customer and business can come to an agreement (contract) then the business will provide the the product or service to the customer for appropriate compensation. However, if an agreement cannot be reached, then potential customer should try elsewhere.

And what if there is nowhere else to try? Say it's a small community with one bakery, if we are going to use the bakery example. Say the gay couple wants to rent a banquet room for their wedding, and it is the only banquet room in a small town, but the owner refuses to cater to their wedding, then where should they go? My biggest problem with these business people is that, in my view, they just hate fags and don't want to deal with them. I really don't think it's so much about it being against their religion. The hatred I have seen against gays in church tells me all I need to know. Many Christians will say it's not the gays they hate, it's the sin they hate, yet I hear one example after another, and have been witness to preachers chastising gays openly in their sermons. Two years ago, I went to church with my girlfriend. The pastor's sermon was on family values. As he went on about family values and how gays were committing great sins, he used the phrase that made me walk out of the church. He used that wonderful line "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", and you should have seen just about everyone in that church stand up and scream and holler in approval. As I was leaving I was surprised he didn't say that we should just kill all the faggots.

Funny thing about all of this is that I personally do not believe Jesus would condone such hatred toward gays, but that's just my opinion. If God and Jesus are as vindictive as their followers, then I think we would be much better off without God.

 

[The Rabbi]

Those poor Christians.

Funny, I can't find anything where Jesus refused to serve anyone...

That Jesus sure didnt believe in anything, did he?
A fail post.

 

[The Rabbi]

Christians need to start being Christians.

Doubtless you know what defines a Christian, having gotten a masters in Christianity from Columbia, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Republican double speak....
The Omnibus Spying Bill becomes The Patriot Act.
Crushing workers rights becomes the RIght to Work state.
Voter suppression becomes Voter ID laws.
Discrimination against gay people becomes "Religious Freedom."
Requiring everyone to buy health insurance becomes "a government takeover of healthcare."
1984 has nothing on the Republican Party of today.

Republicans only offering is to corporations and the rich.

Remind me who has benefitted from Democrat policies over the last 8 years. Yeah, the rich.

 

[LoneLaugher]

That polling data shows that people who don't go to church often or at all support religious freedom more than those who do. That's fucking crazy, huh?

You dupes. The thread title is about religious freedom. The comments by the OP are about butt sex and the poll is about perceived individual rights.

It is, in other words.....meaningless drivel.

 

[The Rabbi]

That polling data shows that people who don't go to church often or at all support religious freedom more than those who do. That's fucking crazy, huh?

You dupes. The thread title is about religious freedom. The comments by the OP are about butt sex and the poll is about perceived individual rights.

It is, in other words.....meaningless drivel.

Your last sentence describes your post perfectly.

 

[guno]

What the rightwing christers fail to realize is the demographic shift upon them.and going forward

 

[The Rabbi]

What the rightwing christers fail to realize is the demographic shift upon them.and going forward

Yeah, go with that one.

 

[LoneLaugher]

That polling data shows that people who don't go to church often or at all support religious freedom more than those who do. That's fucking crazy, huh?

You dupes. The thread title is about religious freedom. The comments by the OP are about butt sex and the poll is about perceived individual rights.

It is, in other words.....meaningless drivel.

Your last sentence describes your post perfectly.

Oooooooh! ZING!!!!!!!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Want to know about religious freedom in America? Ask the original Americans.

Document Proclaims Secular Government - Archiving Early America

 

[Mac1958]

.

Doesn't seem to me the poll question is necessarily about religion.

It looks more like they're asking if we should just give each other some space and respect differing viewpoints.

Looks like most Americans feel that reasonable people shouldn't force others to provide a service against their will.

Seems pretty obvious, and understandable. It's a shame that some are so consumed by a need for control that they can't see it.

.

 

[JoeMoma]

Those poor Christians.

Funny, I can't find anything where Jesus refused to serve anyone...

That Jesus sure didnt believe in anything, did he?
A fail post.

Jesus told the adulteress to go and sin no more.

 

[JoeMoma]

Let's forget religion for the moment and use a little common sense. There is a big difference in going into a store/restaurant and buying something off the shelf or menu and with contacting a business to provide a special order or service to customer specifications perhaps at the customer's location.

In the first case, the business is providing the same product or service to everyone in an enviroment that he controls, so public accommodations laws preventing discrimination are reasonable.

In the second case, it is very possible that the customer's request may not be a good fit for the business for numerous reasons. If the customer and business can come to an agreement (contract) then the business will provide the the product or service to the customer for appropriate compensation. However, if an agreement cannot be reached, then potential customer should try elsewhere.

And what if there is nowhere else to try? Say it's a small community with one bakery, if we are going to use the bakery example. Say the gay couple wants to rent a banquet room for their wedding, and it is the only banquet room in a small town, but the owner refuses to cater to their wedding, then where should they go? My biggest problem with these business people is that, in my view, they just hate fags and don't want to deal with them. I really don't think it's so much about it being against their religion. The hatred I have seen against gays in church tells me all I need to know. Many Christians will say it's not the gays they hate, it's the sin they hate, yet I hear one example after another, and have been witness to preachers chastising gays openly in their sermons. Two years ago, I went to church with my girlfriend. The pastor's sermon was on family values. As he went on about family values and how gays were committing great sins, he used the phrase that made me walk out of the church. He used that wonderful line "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve", and you should have seen just about everyone in that church stand up and scream and holler in approval. As I was leaving I was surprised he didn't say that we should just kill all the faggots.

Funny thing about all of this is that I personally do not believe Jesus would condone such hatred toward gays, but that's just my opinion. If God and Jesus are as vindictive as their followers, then I think we would be much better off without God.

If it is a really small community, it may not have a bakery or a banquet room. You strawman response fails because there is somewhere else to go.

From your post it seems that you beleive church's should change doctrine that is thousands of years old and embrace homosexuality and same sex marriage. Just as you have the right to walk out such a church, they have the right to their religion and beliefs. Furthermore, their freedom of religion should not end when they walk out the doors of their church and into the doors of the businesses that they privately own, just as you have the right to walk out of their businesses if they offend you.

 

[JoeB131]

This conversation occurred at work the other night. We came to the conclusion that the LGBT (and supporters) attempt to gut Christian businesses by denying them trade and bringing the force of litigation is the American equivalent of beheading/crucifying Christians by muslims in the ME.

So which insane asylum do you work at?

 

[JoeB131]

ROFL! They 'boycotted another Christian business into the best year they ever had... (and in just 36 hours).

But the news seems to indicate that the reason is, that by 80%, people are getting sick of the Advocacy to Normalize Sexual Abnormality abusing innocent people:

a majority also thinks gays should not be discriminated against.

Does the public support Indiana-style religious freedom laws It depends how you ask. - Vox

Consider a June 2014 Public Religion Research Institute poll that asked, "Do you think that a small-business owner in your state should be allowed to refuse to provide products or services to individuals because they are gay or lesbian if it violates their religious beliefs?" Eighty percent of respondents said no.

 

[saveliberty]

Few things are more personal than what you do with your own time. As a business owner, I refuse to use that time for anyone I find offensive or using my talents in ways that don't reflect my standards. I am not the only person who can deliver the services I provide, go find someone who is willing to do what you wish.

 

[Coyote]

Seriously.
I'm not Christian, yet I find what is being done to Christians in this country to be extremely offensive. If a business owner feels that serving someone somehow offends their personal beliefs/feelings, why doesn't the customer find a business pleased to accept their trade? Nah, it's not really about doing business, is it? It's all about forcing other people to capitulate to your demands. Or else!

I think what you find offensive is telling a business owner what he can or can not do with his business. Right?

Is it really about forcing people to "capitulate to your demands" - is fair and equal treatment a "demand" or a "right"? When business' open to serve the public - and I don't mean religious establishments - don't they have to serve the public within reason?

It seems like "religious freedom" is being distorted to promote religious bigotry - something which I do not think Christ indulged in.

At one time business could forbid service or entry to women, blacks, Jews, Indians....and in some of those cases, for "religious" reasons. Before those barriers were broken it was widespread. Essentially what Indiana's "religious freedom" law does is provide an open door back to those days. They think it's just about gays - but it's not. It's about anyone someone could find a "religious" reason to bar and, add to that - that legislation squashed an amendment requiring business' to post signs if they weren't going to serve certain categories of people. I just finished reading a biography by Condaleeza Rice that was quite interesting - she grew up under segregation. Many hotel's would not serve blacks. Any time they planned a vacation - they often had to end up camping or sleeping in a car because few hotels would allow them in and no one wanted their children to witness the humiliation of being turned away. Those are the people I feel sorry for - not the business owners.

It's a hard line to draw between legitimate religious objection and discrimination, but when you open a business to the public - it's to the public, imo.

I believe that only the business owner involved can specify their reasons for denying service. I think that belief should be honored, regardless. It is their freedom to deny service. It is the freedom of the customer to take their trade to a businessman/woman who will welcome their trade...and take their money.

Before we had laws against discrimmination - places could deny service to blacks, Jews, homosexuals across huge parts of the country. In some cases there were no other places to take their trade or very few. These business' want to have their cake and eat it too - they want to be able to discrimminate but they don't want the public to know they do so.

I just don't see this as a good thing but rather going back to bad old times

 

[Coyote]

Those poor Christians.

Funny, I can't find anything where Jesus refused to serve anyone...

That Jesus sure didnt believe in anything, did he?
A fail post.

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuals?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Those poor Christians.

Funny, I can't find anything where Jesus refused to serve anyone...

That Jesus sure didnt believe in anything, did he?
A fail post.

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuals?

What did he say about pedophiles...or even murderers? Nothing, so that is OK?

 

[Coyote]

Those poor Christians.

Funny, I can't find anything where Jesus refused to serve anyone...

That Jesus sure didnt believe in anything, did he?
A fail post.

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuals?

What did he say about pedophiles...or even murderers? Nothing, so that is OK?

So you think homosexuals are on the same level as murderers and pedophiles? Really?