Myth of arctic meltdown: Stunning satellite images show summer ice cap is thicker

Another crackpot denier cult thread filled with delusional twaddle.

Vanishing Arctic Sea Ice: Going Up the Down Escalator
SkepticalScience
by dana1981
7 September 2012
Over the past three decades, Arctic sea ice extent, area, and most importantly, volume have declined dramatically, to levels unseen in millennia. 2012 is absolutely shattering previous record lows, and we expect the continued long-term sea ice decline (which is predominantly human-caused) to have some serious adverse consequences. This is a difficult reality to face, and when faced with a difficult reality, denial is often a natural, inevitable reaction.

The easiest way to deny that a long-term change is happening is to focus on noisy short-term data, where it is easy to find any desired trend through cherrypicking - one of the 5 characteristics of scientific denialism. As we explored in Global Surface Temperature: Going Down the Up Escalator, one just needs to choose a few data points where the short-term trend goes in the opposite direction of the long-term trend and voilá! Nothing to worry about.

We have created a new animated GIF to depict in a simple and straightforward manner exactly why this focus on short-term data is misguided. The principle is very similar to 'going down the up escalator' for global temperatures. In this case, climate contrarians are trying to go up the down escalator, finding very brief periods during which Arctic sea ice extent increases, and proclaiming that it has "recovered," all the while ignoring the accelerating long-term decline (Figure 1).

2013_Arctic_Escalator_1024.gif

Figure 1: NSIDC September Arctic sea ice extent (blue diamonds) with "recovery" years highlighted in red, vs. the long-term sea ice decline fit with a second order polynomial, also in red.

The Neverending Recovery

2007 was the previous year in which the Arctic sea ice decline shattered all records. There is a principle in statistics known as "regression toward the mean," which is the phenomenon that if an extreme value of a variable is observed, the next measurement will generally be less extreme, i.e. we should not expect to observe record lows in consecutive years. This is because when extremes are reached and records are broken, a number of different variables generally have to align in the same direction to make this happen.

For example, 1998 was the hottest year on record and remained the hottest until 2005 because it involved a combination of an exceptionally strong El Niño, fairly high solar activity, low volcanic activity, and the increased human-caused greenhouse effect. All of the most important variables happened to align in the warming direction in 1998, which is why 1998 is often used as the starting point to argue that global warming has magically stopped, as illustrated in the global surface temperature escalator (Figure 2).

Escalator_2012_1024.gif

Figure 2: BEST land-only surface temperature data (green) with linear trends applied to the timeframes 1973 to 1980, 1980 to 1988, 1988 to 1995, 1995 to 2001, 1998 to 2005, 2002 to 2010 (blue), and 1973 to 2010 (red). The baseline period is 1950-1980.

Likewise, the record low Arctic sea ice extent in 2007 was not broken for another five years because on top of the long-term human-caused decline, 2007 involved a perfect combination of weather events and natural cycles contributing to even further sea ice loss.
Thus even when there is a long-term trend, extreme events are often followed by a regression toward less extreme values. This presents an opportunity for those who want to deny the existence of the long-term trend to characterize these regression years as "recoveries," claiming there is nothing to worry about because temperatures seem to be cooling (as in Figure 2) or because Arctic sea ice seems to be bouncing back to normal levels (as in Figure 1).

Slipping Down the Icy Escalator

For example, climate contrarians claimed that after the record low sea ice extent in 2007, the regression years of 2008 (e.g. here and here) and 2009 (here) showed that Arctic sea ice was recovering back to normal, and thus that there was nothing to worry about. This focus on this short-term two-year "recovery" while ignoring the long-term trend led the contrarians to make some very optimistic predictions about 2010 sea ice extent (here), which turned out to be very, very wrong as the brief "recovery" mirage ended and the long-term trend in Arctic sea ice decline continued to accelerate. Undeterred, the contrarians continued to make overly optimistic predictions in 2011 and 2012, which similarly turned out to be very, very wrong. We will have a blog post examining various Arctic sea ice predictions over the past several years once we have reached this year's minimum.

Figure 1 has been added to the Skeptical Science's Animated Climate Graphics Page, and is free for anyone to use and distribute. We suspect it may very well come in handy next year, as another regression toward less extreme values is likely, and if there is another regression, we can certainly expect the climate contrarians to once again proclaim that Arctic sea ice is on its way to a full recovery.

We wish their optimism were not misplaced, but sadly it is only a matter of time before the Arctic becomes ice free in the summer. Denying this reality will only allow the problem to continue doing more damage to ecosystems around the world.
regurgitated nonsense. Ain't you got anything else?
 
How do you believe we have tied our hands behind our back?

Because we have a president that is apparently opposed to the use of fossil fuels until we can develop a reliable, cost effective replacement. He should put ALL options on the table, spell out that we're going to utilize EVERY source under our control, open up land for oil, coal and gas exploration, all while creating a Manhattan Project for energy. That would reduce our dependence on foreign energy, kick start the economy like nothing else, and revitalize the country. The government should not be picking winners and losers based on politics.
The world has already developed reliable, cost effective, cleaner, non-carbon-emitting, renewable replacements for fossil fuels. Solar power, both PV and concentrating & wind power & ocean wave, tide and current power.

You seem to be in some kind of moronic denial of that fact, as well as in denial about the reality and dangers of AGW. You're probably another dupe of the fossil fuel industry propaganda campaign to protect their profits with lies and deception. You poor stooge.

You can get all outraged and stuff that people still want to use "icky" fossil fuels, but it doesn't change reality.

Any one technology can produce some power for some amount of time. None of the new technologies, however, can yet replace fossil fuels because they are intermittent, unreliable, expensive, and don't have the mature infrastructure necessary for wide availability. They may be able to CONTRIBUTE to our electrical power needs, but solar, for example, doesn't work at night, wind is notoriously unreliable, and wave, tide, and current power are still in their infancies. This is why we need to put ALL options on the table, to develop a comprehensive energy production strategy that could include coal, oil, nuclear, large solar panel farms in the desert and massive underwater turbines in the Gulf Stream. But, and it's a big one, dreams of totally replacing fossil fuels in the next 10 to 20 years is just a fantasy.
 
We already have enough of Government controlling our lives. We don't need more of it. Most are beginning to understand that it's the Communists/Socialists behind the Global Warming fear mongering. And Communists/Socialists do not stand for Freedom & Liberty.

So the People will have to decide on Freedom & Liberty, or Total Government control of their lives. Because more Government control of the People is where this Global Warming fear mongering will take us. Personally, i'm choosing Freedom & Liberty. Because i fear the Communists/Socialists far more than i fear Global Warming. It's 'Live Free or Die' for me.
 
Found it. You have my apologies. The graph you presented is found on page 224 of the linked document. However, it is not Arctic ice extents. It is the northern hemisphere's. The same page shows the snow anomaly (a downward trend) and the Southern Hemisphere's ice extents anomaly (interestingly, ALSO a downward trend).
Go read the article about the arctic at the NSIDC site. Hmmm..... What?
 
Crick said:
How do you believe we have our hands tied behind our backs?

Because we have a president that is apparently opposed to the use of fossil fuels until we can develop a reliable, cost effective replacement. He should put ALL options on the table, spell out that we're going to utilize EVERY source under our control, open up land for oil, coal and gas exploration, all while creating a Manhattan Project for energy. That would reduce our dependence on foreign energy, kick start the economy like nothing else, and revitalize the country. The government should not be picking winners and losers based on politics.

If you don't want the government picking winners and losers, you should not ask them to start a "Manhattan Project for energy". If you want them to pick winners and losers based on technical merit, you should not demand that they "put ALL options on the table".

Moving away from petroleum will reduce our dependence on foreign energy. The US has more than enough coal, natural gas, wind and solar to take care of its energy needs were we to build the infrastructure to make use of it. The bulk of the petroleum, of course, is going into our cars and thence into our atmosphere. Moving towards electric cars will aid that.

Petroleum and coal, at present, certainly need no more assistance from the American taxpayer than that they've been receiving for the last several decades.
 
Crick said:
How do you believe we have our hands tied behind our backs?

Because we have a president that is apparently opposed to the use of fossil fuels until we can develop a reliable, cost effective replacement. He should put ALL options on the table, spell out that we're going to utilize EVERY source under our control, open up land for oil, coal and gas exploration, all while creating a Manhattan Project for energy. That would reduce our dependence on foreign energy, kick start the economy like nothing else, and revitalize the country. The government should not be picking winners and losers based on politics.

If you don't want the government picking winners and losers, you should not ask them to start a "Manhattan Project for energy". If you want them to pick winners and losers based on technical merit, you should not demand that they "put ALL options on the table".

Moving away from petroleum will reduce our dependence on foreign energy. The US has more than enough coal, natural gas, wind and solar to take care of its energy needs were we to build the infrastructure to make use of it. The bulk of the petroleum, of course, is going into our cars and thence into our atmosphere. Moving towards electric cars will aid that.

Petroleum and coal, at present, certainly need no more assistance from the American taxpayer than that they've been receiving for the last several decades.

I used the term "Manhattan Project" because it promotes the idea of throwing our best and brightest at a project to achieve the best result in the shortest amount of time. The people on the project should not have their options limited by political pressures, hence "government shouldn't be picking winners and losers", and "ALL options need to be on the table" for evaluation. Most likely, we'd end up with a mixed bag of energy sources, like I said. We have a LOT of coal and natural gas under our control, so we should find the safest and cleanest way to use them. Electricity would likely be enhanced by solar in areas that receive maximum amounts of sunlight, geothermal in geological hotspots, tidal along the coasts, etc. We also need better electrical storage capabilities so solar energy created during the day can be used after dark. There are a lot of things that need attention, but simply condemning fossil fuels without a good understanding of the enormous hurdles we face replacing them doesn't help.
 
regurgitated nonsense. Ain't you got anything else?


Have you got anything in the way of a meaningful comment?
to you and your peers, the meaningful comment is, show me the experiment that shows what adding 120PPm of CO2 to 280 PPM does to temperature and climate.


Hey, cricket, I know you won't. Without that, most all of what you post is just mumbo jumbo!!!!
:eusa_dance:
 
Go read the article about the arctic at the NSIDC site. Hmmm..... What?

An excellent idea. Do let us know what they say.

Well for starters the map IS of the Artic. 2014 ice started at one million square kilometers less than the AVERAGE for 1981-20??, yet is only two million less than the same long term average. That is a very dramatic improvement in retaining ice.

So I ask, please show me how humans have dramatically reduced CO2 emissions in 2014.
 
The world has already developed reliable, cost effective, cleaner, non-carbon-emitting, renewable replacements for fossil fuels. Solar power, both PV and concentrating & wind power & ocean wave, tide and current power.

You seem to be in some kind of moronic denial of that fact, as well as in denial about the reality and dangers of AGW. You're probably another dupe of the fossil fuel industry propaganda campaign to protect their profits with lies and deception. You poor stooge.

which of those will power an 18 wheeler, a train, or a plane across this country?

Good point. While trucks or trains could run on electricity, aircraft would probably need something different (unless there are some radical developments in battery technology). A good possibility for future airplane fuel would be liquid hydrogen.

New scientific developments allow for the cheap production of hydrogen using only water and sunlight.
SYSTEM TURNS SOLAR ENERGY INTO HYDROGEN FUEL FOR LATER USE
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL RESEARCH NEWS
January 14, 2014

Liquid hydrogen is a great, energy-dense fuel.
Setting a World Driving Record with Hydrogen
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory - Science & Technology Review

June 12, 2007
 
The world has already developed reliable, cost effective, cleaner, non-carbon-emitting, renewable replacements for fossil fuels. Solar power, both PV and concentrating & wind power & ocean wave, tide and current power.

You seem to be in some kind of moronic denial of that fact, as well as in denial about the reality and dangers of AGW. You're probably another dupe of the fossil fuel industry propaganda campaign to protect their profits with lies and deception. You poor stooge.

which of those will power an 18 wheeler, a train, or a plane across this country?

Good point. While trucks or trains could run on electricity, aircraft would probably need something different (unless there are some radical developments in battery technology). A good possibility for future airplane fuel would be liquid hydrogen.

New scientific developments allow for the cheap production of hydrogen using only water and sunlight.
SYSTEM TURNS SOLAR ENERGY INTO HYDROGEN FUEL FOR LATER USE
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL RESEARCH NEWS
January 14, 2014

Liquid hydrogen is a great, energy-dense fuel.
Setting a World Driving Record with Hydrogen
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory - Science & Technology Review

June 12, 2007
I'm all for it! how do I buy a car that has that, or the kit to convert?
 
The world has already developed reliable, cost effective, cleaner, non-carbon-emitting, renewable replacements for fossil fuels. Solar power, both PV and concentrating & wind power & ocean wave, tide and current power.

You seem to be in some kind of moronic denial of that fact, as well as in denial about the reality and dangers of AGW. You're probably another dupe of the fossil fuel industry propaganda campaign to protect their profits with lies and deception. You poor stooge.

which of those will power an 18 wheeler, a train, or a plane across this country?

Good point. While trucks or trains could run on electricity, aircraft would probably need something different (unless there are some radical developments in battery technology). A good possibility for future airplane fuel would be liquid hydrogen.

New scientific developments allow for the cheap production of hydrogen using only water and sunlight.
SYSTEM TURNS SOLAR ENERGY INTO HYDROGEN FUEL FOR LATER USE
UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL RESEARCH NEWS
January 14, 2014

Liquid hydrogen is a great, energy-dense fuel.
Setting a World Driving Record with Hydrogen
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory - Science & Technology Review

June 12, 2007
I'm all for it! how do I buy a car that has that, or the kit to convert?

Apply to get into Toyota's fuel cell trials.

And there will be others. Mercedes has said they will be coming out with a fuel cell car within two years.
 
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.arctic.png

See the high points and low points on that graph. Now run a curved line on the maximum and minimum. Which way do both curves point?

Yep, ups and downs, but a very definate direction to both curves. Not that it makes any differance to dolts like you fellows. It can drop 5 every other year, and regain 2 every other year , and you will celebrate the 2 as proof the ice is expanding.
 
If they ever get the fuel cell technology going, a hybrid battery-fuel cell will probably be the future. Of course, we still have the problem of hydrogen storage.
 
Really? Have the glaciers ceased to retreat? Has the oceans cooled? And in that 15 years, what has happened to the ice in the Arctic?

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.arctic.png

Since the glaciers have been retreating for 15,000 yrs or more, I'd freaking panic if they "STOPPED" retreating. Don't want to heat my Hillbilly plantation in an Ice Age.

Ice in the Arctic is currently on a rebound. Like it did after the late 30's. It's probably gonna keep melting at SOME RATE, but being the 8th lowest summer season, means that 8 yrs in RECENT HISTORY have been lower.. And since I don't use ice to formulate opinion on GWarming, I doubt the numbers really reflect the condition of the ice or the effects of weather on piling the ice cubes that they COUNT as "iced".
 
Nothing to say liberals? That's interesting. I predict Global Warming, is going to go down, like spiritualism or eugenics. People thought it was "science" for a while, but eventually, it becomes clear, it's populated by frauds and huxters. Those that weren't taken in, end up laughing at those who were.

Ever heard of climatic cycles? When things are heating up, that's all the deniers talk about. Let things go the other way for a few years and they forget all about it. What's obvious besides the total ignorance about what real science entails, is that the deniers are either total hypocrites or able to totally forget whatever argument they used yesterday. I'll go with the former.

You are throwing climate cycles as an argument. Climate cycles were not part of the Alarmist Argument when Arctic shrank. Why? Because they were too wrapped up in showing the polar bears with diminishing spots to call home; that as well as fabricating emails for AngliaGate.

Besides that, climate cycles, totally destroys the argument that Global Warming is man made.

If it isn't then explain how man caused the other warming cycles this planet has been through. Some of them happened long before the industrial revolution, the car, or any of other boogymen the left wants to blame.

Just because one warming trend is touted as man made doesn't mean the others would have to be. That's just denier nonsense that anyone with an inkling of understanding would discard as garbage. One easy way to tell if someone is has an actual understanding of the subject or whether they're just parroting what they've heard on denier sites is how they treat the time issue. If they ignore it or treat all warming episodes the same, they obviously are making their case on a political rather than scientific basis.

Just as easy to say that since all the PREVIOUS natural cycles were NOT man-made, how come THIS one HAS to be? CO2 is a bit player in the climate, not the control knob. What you are embracing says that CO2 warming is only the TRIGGER for cataclysmic climate change.. That the Earth you live on has a terminally faulty Climate system that will ESCALATE the small amount of CO2 warming into a Runaway Thermal Event.

Too much wasted time discussing CO2. The science should be about the STABILITY of the climate system and all of the feedbacks associated with the inputs.
 
We already have enough of Government controlling our lives. We don't need more of it. Most are beginning to understand that it's the Communists/Socialists behind the Global Warming fear mongering. And Communists/Socialists do not stand for Freedom & Liberty.

So the People will have to decide on Freedom & Liberty, or Total Government control of their lives. Because more Government control of the People is where this Global Warming fear mongering will take us. Personally, i'm choosing Freedom & Liberty. Because i fear the Communists/Socialists far more than i fear Global Warming. It's 'Live Free or Die' for me.

Demented denier cult drivel! The issue is actually a scientific one, but you anti-science denier cultists are idiotic enough to think it is entirely political. Your rightwingnut ideological imperatives and myths are irrelevant to the scientific facts or the necessary steps the world needs to take to restrict carbon emissions.
 
Really? Have the glaciers ceased to retreat? Has the oceans cooled? And in that 15 years, what has happened to the ice in the Arctic?

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.arctic.png
Since the glaciers have been retreating for 15,000 yrs or more...

You are such an IGNORANT RETARD!!!

Glaciers and climate change
National Snow and Ice Data Center
Since the early twentieth century, with few exceptions, glaciers around the world have been retreating at unprecedented rates. Some scientists attribute this massive glacial retreat to the Industrial Revolution, which began around 1760. In fact, several ice caps, glaciers and ice shelves have disappeared altogether in this century. Many more are retreating so rapidly that they may vanish within a matter of decades.

Scientists are discovering that production of electricity using coal and petroleum, and other uses of fossil fuels in transportation and industry, affects our environment in ways we did not understand before. Within the past 200 years or so, human activity has increased the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere by 40 percent, and other gases, such as methane (natural gas) by a factor of 2 to 3 or more. These gases absorb heat being radiated from the surface of the earth, and by absorbing this heat the atmosphere slowly warms up. Heat-trapping gases, sometimes called “greenhouse gases,” are the cause of most of the climate warming and glacier retreat in the past 50 years. However, related causes, such as increased dust and soot from grazing, farming, and burning of fossil fuels and forests, are also causing glacier retreat. In fact, it is likely that the earliest parts of the recent glacier retreats in Europe were caused by soot from coal burning in the late 1800s.

The 1991 discovery of the 5,000 year-old "ice man," preserved in a glacier in the European Alps, fascinated the world (see National Geographic, June 1 1993, volume 183, number 6, for an article titled "Ice Man" by David Roberts). Tragically, this also means that this glacier is retreating farther now than it has in 5,000 years, and other glaciers are as well.


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