Multiverse Fantasy (Goofiness Feigning Science)

[ChemEngineer]

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Your opinion is irrelevant.

And good day to you!
.

But YOUR opinion is superior to anyone elses? I don't think so. Opinions reflect one's interpretation of data and facts.

 

[Mac1958]

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Your opinion is irrelevant.
And good day to you!

But YOUR opinion is superior to anyone elses? I don't think so. Opinions reflect one's interpretation of data and facts.

When did I say that?

I prefer honest conversations, please.
.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

View attachment 305844

Really, you want to play the goofy ideas game? Ok, here goes-

Christianity is the belief that a virgin woman gave birth to a baby in a barn. After the baby grew up, he turned water to wine, walked on water, and fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish. He was declared the savior.

So the people decide to nail the savior to some wood so their sins wouldn’t matter anymore. When he died, they threw him in a cave, sealed the cave with a giant rock. When they went back to his tomb, the body was gone, but an angel told them he was with god in heaven.

Now really, is that any crazier than the Universe being formed by a Big Bang?

 

[Flash]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

Yeah, I’m an engineer too (Colorado School of Mines, class of 1984, Go Orediggers!) So what?

The laws of physics which exist in the far reaches of the universe are unknown. F=ma and e=mc2 are laws which answer some questions, but not all. The Higgs Boson was not even theorized until 10 years after Einstein’s death, and it took another 50 years to confirm it existed.

Science is not going to give up and just say it was all created by God, and I thank God for that.

 

[Flash]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

Yeah, I’m an engineer too (Colorado School of Mines, class of 1984, Go Orediggers!) So what?

The laws of physics which exist in the far reaches of the universe are unknown. F=ma and e=mc2 are laws which answer some questions, but not all. The Higgs Boson was not even theorized until 10 years after Einstein’s death, and it took another 50 years to confirm it existed.

Science is not going to give up and just say it was all created by God, and I thank God for that.

When Science figures out how the Universe created itself out nothing then give me a call. I will be very interested. Until then I will stick with my knowledge of the Laws of Physics that says it ain't possible.

 

[james bond]

I'm burned out on asymmetrical conversations with people who only have the capacity to see and understand one side of a story.

You're jumping to conclusions. I used to believe in evolution and learned it here -- Understanding Evolution. Afterward, around 2012 I became a born-again Christian and started reading the Bible. That convinced me which side had the truth. The truth is backed up by science. There were also articles from 2007 - 2011 that criticized evolution. For example, how did Darwin just happen to be given a cell to start with?

Thus, again you just have uneducated and irrelevant opinion but now you've been made aware that you are heading towards pain and suffering for eternity.

Super duper!
.

Yep, as my hero Blaise Pascal said us Christians would rather end up super duper than pooper scooper.

 

[Mac1958]

I'm burned out on asymmetrical conversations with people who only have the capacity to see and understand one side of a story.

You're jumping to conclusions. I used to believe in evolution and learned it here -- Understanding Evolution. Afterward, around 2012 I became a born-again Christian and started reading the Bible. That convinced me which side had the truth. The truth is backed up by science. There were also articles from 2007 - 2011 that criticized evolution. For example, how did Darwin just happen to be given a cell to start with?

Thus, again you just have uneducated and irrelevant opinion but now you've been made aware that you are heading towards pain and suffering for eternity.

Super duper!
.

View attachment 306229

Yep, as my hero Blaise Pascal said us Christians would rather end up super duper than pooper scooper.

Oooh, scary!
.

 

[james bond]

Oooh, scary!.

I'm not sure if it's scary.

It says that hell of lake of fire is a sulfur fire or burning stone (brimstone) and the soul and body are burned. Even if you are dead, then at the end of the world you are reunited with your physical body. If you are spiritually dead, then your spiritually perfect new body and soul portions will be burned. Your material portion of the soul will be separated at death. It sounds like you lose something precious. I think the other things that happen are you reap what you sow. Also, you relive certain moments of your life, but can't correct them anymore, i.e. repent for them anymore. It sounds like Satan and his demons will be tormented day and night, assuming Jesus wins, but I'm not sure if this applies to the doomed humans. I don't think the above are metaphors, but the other parts may be.

What Does the Bible Say About Hell?

 

[Mac1958]

Oooh, scary!.

I'm not sure if it's scary.

It says that hell of lake of fire is a sulfur fire or burning stone (brimstone) and the soul and body are burned. Even if you are dead, then at the end of the world you are reunited with your physical body. If you are spiritually dead, then your spiritually perfect new body and soul portions will be burned. Your material portion of the soul will be separated at death. It sounds like you lose something precious. I think the other things that happen are you reap what you sow. Also, you relive certain moments of your life, but can't correct them anymore, i.e. repent for them anymore. It sounds like Satan and his demons will be tormented day and night, assuming Jesus wins, but I'm not sure if this applies to the doomed humans. I don't think the above are metaphors, but the other parts may be.

What Does the Bible Say About Hell?

Well, I'll make sure they drop a few tubes of sunscreen in my casket.
.

 

[flacaltenn]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

Yeah - BUT LOL... It's a false choice.. And one that ruins BOTH sides of the intelligent design debate..

And that is -- science is not saying "the universe made itself out of nothing" -- the THEORY is it was made from UNFATHOMABLY dense energy that could fit on the head of pin.. That energy representing the mass equivalent of EVERY MOLECULE in the universe.. All the carbon, silicon, gold and rubber tires in the NJ dumps..

Which is different from Genesis in that God made the universe out of nothing... But from there, Genesis is actually surprisingly accurate for a literary allegory.

So, for Intel. Designers -- missing that UNFATHOMABLY huge spark of energy voids their opportunity to claim divine intervention.. And for the science is god folks -- well they just don't KNOW where the spark came from.. OR IF these "sparks" are actually creating new universes periodically or every nanosecond..

I've always countered the closed minded "anti religious faith" crowd by pointing out the EXTRAORDINARY FAITH it takes to picture ALL THE MASS of the universe on the head of pin... I could more easily believe that Moses DID part the Red Sea...

The idea that the whole universe was once the size of point of pin is nothing more than trying to explain The Big Bang. You have to have the pin point universe or else you can't have the BB.

The BB is nothing more than a placeholder to explain the unexplainable; the universe making itself out of nothing. Thinking that something making itself out of nothing is nothing more than believing in magic.

There may be a day when science can explain the unexplainable. Until somebody can rationally show me how the universe can magically pop into existence out of nothing then I am inclined to believe that there is some intelligent design to the existence of everything. That is a more rational explanation than the silly magic theory.

Yep.. That's why in the OP you have multiple Noble physicists agreeing that at the far reaches of "scientific" knowledge -- the FAITH required is JUST as deep as for other "non-scientific" explanations..

 

[miketx]

Then you have the people who steadfastly do not accept the bible. It has been said of these people they believe a tornado could blow through a junk yard and leave a fully functional 747 in its wake.

 

[toobfreak]

what WAS that "outside, intervening force, event or effect" that created the universe, if it was not Nature's God?

Who can say? You don't know, neither do I. For lack of a perfect better understanding, we say that cause was "God."

If there were no "laws" prior to the creation of the universe, then WHO MADE such "laws" and why were they so exquisitely perfect?

Where did I ever say there were no laws? Science suggests only that a DIFFERENT set of laws existed at that time. Why were they so "exquisitely perfect?" Because they had to be? If I drop 10,000 different shaped objects at a oddly shaped hole, only the one with the perfect shape at the right angle, etc., will fall through!

I thought I might get some legitimate science and theoretical discussion from you, but I can see by the way this is going, that is not likely to happen.

 

[anynameyouwish]

http://MultiverseFantasy.wordpress.com

The Eye of God

Helix Nebula NGC 7293

Only a few decades ago, Christophobes (atheists) claimed that the universe is SO LARGE that no creator would possibly have gone to such trouble and wasted so many resources to make this entire universe just for the benefit of us pathetic humans here on earth. It was preposterous, inconceivable, they said.

Now, exactly the opposite argument is being made, in order to counter advances in science. The Multiverse, *scientists* tell us, can counter the insuperable statistics of the Anthropic Principle, which examines forty or more physical constants which are exquisitely precise, much to mankind's benefit. The physical constants are precise to an extent that would be statistically impossible without a Designer. Hence God's deniers came up with their fantasmagoric Multiverse.

______________________________________

Light is extraordinarily fast, 186,000 miles per second (871,875 times faster than sound). This not only makes radio communications virtually instant anywhere on the earth, but it also helps us see our surroundings in real time, unlike hearing. Moreover the energy derived from solar fusion is likewise extraordinarily high, proportional to the square of the speed of light. Slower light would mean much, much colder earth. Contrast this value for c with the speed of sound, a paltry 768 miles per hour. It is slow enough that we can hear the direction from which sounds originate. We can also enjoy music in stereo, only because our ears can differentiate between tiny differences in the time sounds arrive at one ear versus the other - differences as small as 1/10,000th of a second. Fine tuning of values for the electromagnetic constant, the electron-proton mass and charge ratios, strong and weak nuclear forces, among many others, defy naturalistic explanation. And so, intellectuals argue (with straight faces) that there must surely be an infinite number of "multiverses," all of which have different values for all these physical constants, and we just happen to be in the *right* universe, permitting our very existence.

Thus *intellectuals* have gone from one extreme, that our universe is much too large for any creator to have bothered with it, to the other, multiverses, an infinite number of universes. Most of them are like the three bears' porridge of the Goldilocks story, either too hot or too cold. Our universe happens to be just right. Just so science.

The gravitational constant is precise to within one part in 10 to the 10 to the 120th power. Who determined this impossible precision? Why it just picked itself, we are told. How simple.

[By way of comparison, the universe is comprised of ~10 to the 80th fundamental particles. If you had fifteen spheres the size of our solar system, out to Pluto, full of sand, and there were one and only one chance to select a unique and specially marked grain in these fifteen solar systems full of sand, the probability of a man in a vehicle capable of navigating in the sand without any windows or any way of seeing his surroundings, would have to pick that grain on his first and only try. That is 1 chance in 10 to the 50th, my definition of "impossible." Compare that to the gravitational constant, precise to one part in 10 to the 1 followed by 120 zeroes.]

PROBLEM: The universe could not have created itself, from absolutely nothing. That would violate the first law and second laws of thermodynamics.

The first explicit statement of the first law of thermodynamics, by Rudolf Clausius in 1850, referred to cyclic thermodynamic processes.

In all cases in which work is produced by the agency of heat, a quantity of heat is consumed which is proportional to the work done; and conversely, by the expenditure of an equal quantity of work an equal quantity of heat is produced.

Clausius also stated the law in another form, referring to the existence of a function of state of the system, the internal energy, and expressed it in terms of a differential equation for the increments of a thermodynamic process. This equation may described as follows:

In a thermodynamic process involving a closed system, the increment in the internal energy is equal to the difference between the heat accumulated by the system and the work done by it.

where delta E is the total energy of the universe, Q is the change in heat, and W is the change in work.
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
How these values instantaneously changed from nonexistent to incomprehensibly massive has never and can never be explained in naturalistic terms.

PROBLEM: The second law of thermodynamics, as expressed by Rudolf Clausius:
The entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium —the state of maximum entropy.
In other words, the entropy, or disorder, of a closed system constantly increases. Chaos can only increase within a closed system. The pretense of orderliness increasing dramatically after the Big Bang, to produce stars, planets, heat and light is the largest conceivable violation of the second law of thermodynamics. But who made these laws? Wellll, we are told, they simply made themselves. Talk about convenient.
How matter, energy, organization, elegance, physical laws, and the profound fortuitous interdependences which embrace and nurture mankind, moved uphill, against the forces of entropic degradation, has never and can never be explained in naturalistic terms.


The God Particle

Clearly this creation we call the universe had a creator, who is forever outside the purview of science. This is because science is restricted to what we can observe, understand, quantify, and explain. Professor John Lennox, of Oxford University, gave a lecture titled A Matter of Gravity. Professor Lennox elegantly responded to Richard Dawkins' clever ploy of asking "Who made God?" Said Lennox, "If someone made God, then He wouldn't be God, would He."
Precisely.
You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.
Alternative A is, shall we say, distasteful, unconvincing, and largely offered only because its proponents have an illogical aversion to Alternative B, which is at once elegant and compelling if incomprehensible. But then again, we are truly surrounded by things that are at the threshold of incomprehensibility, like invisible waves of varying types (frequencies) flying through the air, to our computers, smart phones, televisions, radios, ears, eyes, and grass.

Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. - Thomas Edison

“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley

“It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious…. I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life.” - Arthur L. Schawlow, Professor of Physics at Stanford University, winner of the Nobel Prize in physics, believes that new scientific discoveries provide compelling evidence for a personal God.

“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind.” ― Max Planck

"Only a rookie who knows nothing about science would say science takes away from faith. If you really study science, it will bring you closer to God." - James Tour, Professor of Biochemistry, Rice University

I see.

so you are a christofascist who hates atheists

good to know.

 

[Mac1958]

Then you have the people who steadfastly do not accept the bible. It has been said of these people they believe a tornado could blow through a junk yard and leave a fully functional 747 in its wake.

So you're a Christian man, then?
.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

Yeah, I’m an engineer too (Colorado School of Mines, class of 1984, Go Orediggers!) So what?

The laws of physics which exist in the far reaches of the universe are unknown. F=ma and e=mc2 are laws which answer some questions, but not all. The Higgs Boson was not even theorized until 10 years after Einstein’s death, and it took another 50 years to confirm it existed.

Science is not going to give up and just say it was all created by God, and I thank God for that.

When Science figures out how the Universe created itself out nothing then give me a call. I will be very interested. Until then I will stick with my knowledge of the Laws of Physics that says it ain't possible.

What in medical science says it’s possible for baby to be immaculately conceived? What part of physical law explains how a dead man escapes his sealed tomb?

You seem more than happy to suspend your knowledge(?) of what’s possible for your religious beliefs. At the time of Jesus, science said it was impossible to travel to the moon. Technological advances opens up frontiers in science, but only for those not stuck in the past.

 

[ChemEngineer]

What in medical science says it’s possible for baby to be immaculately conceived? What part of physical law explains how a dead man escapes his sealed tomb?

You seem more than happy to suspend your knowledge(?) of what’s possible for your religious beliefs. At the time of Jesus, science said it was impossible to travel to the moon. Technological advances opens up frontiers in science, but only for those not stuck in the past.

God's actions are not a function of anything humanly conceivable, certainly not the "laws" which God created.
That's not difficult to comprehend. Our religious beliefs cannot begin to comprehend God, and neither can yours. These "frontiers in science" you godless Leftists always cite are not receding anywhere near the pretensions you make. And their unintended consequences are often horrific. "Medical science" is now abused such that doctors murder innocent, unborn babies and godless Leftists call it "choice." It's about as much "choice" as a rapist unilaterally practices. The father has no "choice." Grandparents have no "choice." The baby has no "choice" and the beating heart that is often silenced is NOT part of the woman's body. It has DNA of the father as well. "Technical advances"......

 

[Flash]

You must choose between two and only two inconceivable prospects.
Either:
A. The universe made itself, out of nothing, or else,
B. An infinite intellect and power made the universe.

This is very true and to me the most logical argument for Intelligent Design. To not believe in some higher power is to think that the universe made itself out of nothing, which is a prosperous idea when you think about it.

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

Yeah, I’m an engineer too (Colorado School of Mines, class of 1984, Go Orediggers!) So what?

The laws of physics which exist in the far reaches of the universe are unknown. F=ma and e=mc2 are laws which answer some questions, but not all. The Higgs Boson was not even theorized until 10 years after Einstein’s death, and it took another 50 years to confirm it existed.

Science is not going to give up and just say it was all created by God, and I thank God for that.

When Science figures out how the Universe created itself out nothing then give me a call. I will be very interested. Until then I will stick with my knowledge of the Laws of Physics that says it ain't possible.

What in medical science says it’s possible for baby to be immaculately conceived? What part of physical law explains how a dead man escapes his sealed tomb?

You seem more than happy to suspend your knowledge(?) of what’s possible for your religious beliefs. At the time of Jesus, science said it was impossible to travel to the moon. Technological advances opens up frontiers in science, but only for those not stuck in the past.

When somebody shows me how the universe created itself out of nothing then I will be a true believer. Until then I reject that theory of magic because it doesn't fit in with what I have been taught in physics.

Maybe one of these days the knowledge of science will explain the unexplainable but that is not today.

I serious doubt humans will ever get to the point where they fully understand what the universe is all about.

As far as the Bible goes it is not a science book or a history book although there are many historical references in it. The book simply describes the relationship between Man and God. If you can accept the concept that God created you and then takes responsibility for your imperfections (sinfulness) then you can understand what Jesus is all about. If you don't accept the concept then there is nothing that anyone can say that will explain Jesus.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

IMO- The Universe is not a good reason to believe in a higher power. A higher power is not as tangible as the universe.

The best reason to conclude there is a higher power is the ever present ethos of a higher power throughout Human history. Why would nearly ever human civilization in history subscribe to some type of higher power? The obvious answer is that human beings feel the spirit of a higher power.

However describing and identifying this spirit is multifaceted and is strongly dependent on the individual cultures.

If you need an answer for how the Universe began, crediting a higher power or God is the intellectually soft way. Just as former cultures may have credited the rain to the rain god was intellectually and scientifically soft.

Humans sensing a greater power is an excellent point to consider.

However, the question asked in this thread about are there really only two possibilities still remains. Either the universe magically created itself out of nothing or it is here due to some intelligent design.

I am an Engineer and was taught physics. Having more than a layman's knowledge of the Laws of Physics I have a hard time understanding the concept of the universe magically creating itself out of nothing. That leads me to accept the only possible alternative: Intelligent Design. That conveniently goes hand in hand with my Faith that a higher power does exist.

Maybe one of these days science will disprove the existence of God. However, we aren't there yet and until then I will stay with my Faith.

Yeah, I’m an engineer too (Colorado School of Mines, class of 1984, Go Orediggers!) So what?

The laws of physics which exist in the far reaches of the universe are unknown. F=ma and e=mc2 are laws which answer some questions, but not all. The Higgs Boson was not even theorized until 10 years after Einstein’s death, and it took another 50 years to confirm it existed.

Science is not going to give up and just say it was all created by God, and I thank God for that.

When Science figures out how the Universe created itself out nothing then give me a call. I will be very interested. Until then I will stick with my knowledge of the Laws of Physics that says it ain't possible.

What in medical science says it’s possible for baby to be immaculately conceived? What part of physical law explains how a dead man escapes his sealed tomb?

You seem more than happy to suspend your knowledge(?) of what’s possible for your religious beliefs. At the time of Jesus, science said it was impossible to travel to the moon. Technological advances opens up frontiers in science, but only for those not stuck in the past.

When somebody shows me how the universe created itself out of nothing then I will be a true believer. Until then I reject that theory of magic because it doesn't fit in with what I have been taught in physics.

Maybe one of these days the knowledge of science will explain the unexplainable but that is not today.

I serious doubt humans will ever get to the point where they fully understand what the universe is all about.

As far as the Bible goes it is not a science book or a history book although there are many historical references in it. The book simply describes the relationship between Man and God. If you can accept the concept that God created you and then takes responsibility for your imperfections (sinfulness) then you can understand what Jesus is all about. If you don't accept the concept then there is nothing that anyone can say that will explain Jesus.

Fair enough. Christianity is not my concept of a higher power. But if it works for you, then I have no issue with it.