Mistakes Atheists Make

[Thunderbird]

1) Defining atheism
In the golden age of atheism (late 1800's) atheism was generally held to be "the doctrine or belief that there is no God". Today some atheists prefer to define atheism as merely "lack of belief in God". While I appreciate the intellectual retreat the new definition represents, this new definition is illogical. According to the 2nd definition those who know or think there is a God are atheists, which is absurd.

2) Burden of proof
Atheists often say theists must shoulder the burden of proof since theists claim there is a God. However, atheists are also making a claim: theism is an ill-considered position. So atheists should also bear the burden of proof.

3) Radical skepticism
Some atheists are radical skeptics, but radical skepticism is self-defeating. As Wittgenstein said: “If you tried to doubt everything you would not get as far as doubting anything. The game of doubting itself presupposes certainty.”

4) Hard materialism
Can atheists prove only the material world exists?

5) Atheism and tolerance
According to one estimate over 25 million Christians died from secular antireligious violence in the 20th century.
Psychology Religion and Spirituality - James M. Nelson - Google Books

6) Atheism and happiness
BBC NEWS Health Religion linked to happy life

7) Atheists' recurring intellectual cowardice and laziness
Atheists seem eager to ridicule the least educated while avoiding the most educated Christians.
Atheists The Origin of the Species by Nick Spencer reviewed.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm Catholic and most of the people I know are Catholics who don't go to church anymore but still believe in God.

That's laziness, and indifference, and a general lackadaisical attitude that it will all somehow work out in the end.

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

 

[shart_attack]

I'm Catholic and most of the people I know are Catholics who don't go to church anymore but still believe in God.

That's laziness, and indifference, and a general lackadaisical attitude that it will all somehow work out in the end.

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

Yes, because we all deserve God's love, right?

Betcha can't tell me what the allegory of this parable told by Christ in Luke 15:11-32 means:

The Parable of the Prodigal Son.

Let's see if you can — particularly because according to you, we all deserve God's love.

Be sure to pay very close attention to the thought process of the elder son in verses 25 through 30.

 

[Blackrook]

It doesn't matter what we deserve, God loves us unconditionally, even when we stray away from him.

 

[shart_attack]

It doesn't matter what we deserve, God loves us unconditionally, even when we stray away from him.

Which is poignant, given that you just said this in your prior post:

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

By saying that, you are essentially saying that we all—athiests included—deserve God's love, yes? That God owes us, right?

What does the Apostle Paul say in Ephesians 2:8 about that?

For by Grace are ye saved through Faith; and not that of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Ephesians 2 8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith--and this is not from yourselves it is the gift of God--

It's very easy to become the best person who ever went to hell, yes?

 

[Blackrook]

I take it you think good works are irrelevant to God. I disagree.

 

[shart_attack]

I take it you think good works are irrelevant to God. I disagree.

Not entirely, nope: not what I'm saying.

You're making the mistake of inferring a bit much.

But just because you brought it up: without Faith in salvation by Grace, works most certainly are immaterial to God.

I have another point, though.

When you say things like ...

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

... you are presuming to know the mind of God. And that's both naive and dangerous, as one should never, ever presume to know the mind of God.

You know who is most famous for having done that, yes?

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

ISAIAH CHAPTER 14

In other words, ^ the elder son ^ in Christ's parable of The Prodigal Son.

 

[Blackrook]

Not everyone has faith. What about babies? They don't have faith.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I'm Catholic and most of the people I know are Catholics who don't go to church anymore but still believe in God.

That's laziness, and indifference, and a general lackadaisical attitude that it will all somehow work out in the end.

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

Now that is one hellova good question!

 

[shart_attack]

Not everyone has faith. What about babies? They don't have faith.

And "special" people.

And people in the New World who, prior to the Renaissance, had never heard of Christianity.

And people who have lived under authoritarian regimes which have been hostile to it.

They don't know any better.

They are covered under the blood of Christ our Savior because of His sacrifice:

And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

But you and I both know the exhortation that James the Apostle gave us, don't we?

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

James 4 17 If anyone then knows the good they ought to do and doesn t do it it is sin for them.

God will judge those of us who profess to be Christians more strictly than the children and others who died before having heard The Gospel.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

I take it you think good works are irrelevant to God. I disagree.

I hate to interject in this discussion, between you too. But I am going to anyway.

Good works are not irrelevant to God, but the motivation behind those works matters very much to Him. And good works can not get you into heaven, only grace. None of us can earn our way to heaven of our own good works.

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Not everyone has faith. What about babies? They don't have faith.

Deuteronomy 1:39'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:…15"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16"For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

After King David lost his infant son
2 Samuel 12:…22He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' 23"But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

All children who have not yet reached understanding, will be in heaven. As will unborn children.

Jeremiah 1:5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Psalm 139:13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.…

Hope that answers your question.

 

[shart_attack]

Not everyone has faith. What about babies? They don't have faith.

Deuteronomy 1:39'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:…15"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16"For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

After King David lost his infant son
2 Samuel 12:…22He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' 23"But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

All children who have not yet reached understanding, will be in heaven. As will unborn children.

Jeremiah 1:5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Psalm 139:13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.…

Hope that answers your question.

Not to be be nitpicky, this: but I don't think it does (answer his question).

Why?

Because all the scriptures you just gave him are from the Old Testament.

And we both know that, as Christians, we are no longer under the Law of the Old Testament, but the Grace of the New.

I started to cite II Samuel 12:21-23 for him, but couldn't bring myself to do it for that same reason.

Here's a nice link about the age of accountability:

Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible What happens to babies and young children when they die

 

[UllysesS.Archer]

Not everyone has faith. What about babies? They don't have faith.

Deuteronomy 1:39'Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:…15"He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 16"For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken.

After King David lost his infant son
2 Samuel 12:…22He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' 23"But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

All children who have not yet reached understanding, will be in heaven. As will unborn children.

Jeremiah 1:5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Psalm 139:13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb.14I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. 15My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; 16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.…

Hope that answers your question.

Not to be be nitpicky, this: but I don't think it does (answer his question).

Why?

Because all the scriptures you just gave him are from the Old Testament.

And we both know that, as Christians, we are no longer under the Law of the Old Testament, but the Grace of the New.

I started to cite II Samuel 12:21-23 for him, but couldn't bring myself to do it for that same reason.

Here's a nice link about the age of accountability:

Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible What happens to babies and young children when they die

Yes, this statement is true, but while Jesus came to save all of us who were of age, God did justify many in the OT, and Jesus himself said He didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, and that the law would not pass away, ever.-paraphrased.

 

[Hollie]

It doesn't matter what we deserve, God loves us unconditionally, even when we stray away from him.

Except when they don't love you unconditionally and wipe the planet because you were a disappointment. Have you ever actually read any of the bibles?

 

[PratchettFan]

I'm Catholic and most of the people I know are Catholics who don't go to church anymore but still believe in God.

That's laziness, and indifference, and a general lackadaisical attitude that it will all somehow work out in the end.

But atheists study Scripture, they memorize Biblical passages, they engage people in furious debate, all to prove that they don't believe in God, and no one else should either.

Who does God prefer? The indifferent semi-believer or the furious, but dedicated, opponent?

The question pre-supposes God cares.

 

[BillyP]

I take it you think good works are irrelevant to God. I disagree.

I hate to interject in this discussion, between you too. But I am going to anyway.

Good works are not irrelevant to God, but the motivation behind those works matters very much to Him. And good works can not get you into heaven, only grace. None of us can earn our way to heaven of our own good works.

So heaven must be a pretty lonely place?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

It doesn't matter what we deserve, God loves us unconditionally, even when we stray away from him.

Only way that'd be true is if your idea of love includes sending people you love to hell.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The question pre-supposes God cares.

God mentioned in our Bibles seems to care a great deal what we believe and do. If it didn't there'd be no need of 613 commandments, no need of hell to threaten people with "behave or else." And some of those commandments wouldn't read "to know that I am the Lord your God..." As one verse says, "The Lord is a jealous god." That doesn't sound like the carebear deity modern revisioninsts claim he is. Sounds more akin to a petty insecure dictator who demands he be worshipped or he'll cast you into hell. But is it actually being worshipped if it's only being done out of fear?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Not to be be nitpicky, this: but I don't think it does (answer his question).

Why?

Because all the scriptures you just gave him are from the Old Testament.

And we both know that, as Christians, we are no longer under the Law of the Old Testament, but the Grace of the New.

I started to cite II Samuel 12:21-23 for him, but couldn't bring myself to do it for that same reason.

Here's a nice link about the age of accountability:

Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible What happens to babies and young children when they die

What happens to babies and young children?

Nothing good.