Masha Gessen allegedly gives away the true motive of the Gay Marriage movement

[theDoctorisIn]

Even John Kerry knows about Masha Gessen, yet none of you know about her. That's quite odd. She publicly criticizes Putin to his face, fights for gay rights, and gets honored by Kerry's State Department on what was a newly christened "Gays and Lesbians in Foreign Affairs Agencies Pride day" last June.

So what?

What does that have to do with her being the brains behind your imaginary LGBT Conspiracy?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I still don't know who any of those people are, and why you believe they somehow represent the entire LGBT movement.

You all fight for gay rights, yet you know none of the people behind the movement. I'm confused...

 

[Misty]

Call me cynical, call me whimsical, call me whatever vulgar name you wish. Call me a Christian bigot, quote the Constitution, the SCOTUS ruling, or cherrypicked bible verses; make fun of my weight or the fact I live in grammaw's basement. Tell me that I want to hurt, dehumanize, or deprive gays of their rights. Compare me to ISIS, or tell me to get a job. Go ahead and get that out of your system.

Rightly so, I'm probably going to take a lot of heat for this, but so be it. I don't like being lied to, and I don't like having my trust betrayed. My support for gay marriage was wrought out of a lot of moral introspection. I have two sides warring within my conscience, my Christian moral objection to it, and my legal support of it. I wrestled with this issue mightily for a long time. But I decided that I would support it, accept it, and tolerate it. Now I find that my support may have been misplaced.

So, what were the motives of the gay marriage movement? How would I know? I was of the understanding it was for the right to marry like everyone else. I support that. But if Masha Gessen is of any indication, that wasn't really the goal in the first place. And as a result of that, I feel like I was misled. How do you ignore the words of Russia's most prominent LGBT activist?

In her own words, Masha Gessen explained how the institution of marriage should be destroyed. I am getting the distinct impression here that the fight for "marriage" wasn't the goal, it was merely a step along the path. The fight wasn't to attain the right to marry, but right to destroy it. It also seems as if the elites in the LGBT community are purposefully misleading their members as well.

Why would you work to destroy something you fought so hard to attain? Well, it appears the movement, according to Gessen, was never about the right to marry. Marriage is but a dispensable thing in the fight to destroy the institution of marriage.

"It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. … Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie.

The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago.

I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally… I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three… And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.”

-Masha Gessen

Why get married when you could be happy - Life Matters - ABC Radio National Australian Broadcasting Corporation

She sounds like a messed up nut job.

She wants to live in a legal system that reflects reality? She's already doing that.

Her reality.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What does that have to do with her being the brains behind your imaginary LGBT Conspiracy?

I already said she isn't the representative, she is one among many.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I still don't know who any of those people are, and why you believe they somehow represent the entire LGBT movement.

You all fight for gay rights, yet you know none of the people behind the movement. I'm confused...

Where are you coming up with the idea that the people you've quoted are somehow "behind" the entire LGBT movement?

I've worked professionally on a number of large-scale LGBT rights campaigns. I know many, if not most of the people "behind" the LGBT movement in the US. None of those people are trying to destroy marriage.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What does that have to do with her being the brains behind your imaginary LGBT Conspiracy?

I already said she isn't the representative, she is one among many.

She is one among a small few, not "many" - none of whom are actually what you would call "players".

 

[Misty]

I still don't know who any of those people are, and why you believe they somehow represent the entire LGBT movement.

You all fight for gay rights, yet you know none of the people behind the movement. I'm confused...

If republicans had wanted gay marriage, liberals would've been against it.

It's all about what team people are on and if they are winning.

Life is and always will be a competition.

 

[Katzndogz]

This isn't new. This is an old statement. She's been saying the same thing for years.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Pianos.

They wanna marry pianos and declare them on their income tax and leave their money to them.

Many thanks to Official Board Mascot, Fat Little Unemployed TK for posting this earth shaking ............

Oh never mind.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Where are you coming up with the idea that the people you've quoted are somehow "behind" the entire LGBT movement?

I'm looking for a consensus now. Not really who is "behind it."

 

[TemplarKormac]

She is one among a small few, not "many" - none of whom are actually what you would call "players".

So, why are we suddenly disowning them now?

 

[Syriusly]

Call me cynical, call me whimsical, call me whatever vulgar name you wish. Call me a Christian bigot, quote the Constitution, the SCOTUS ruling, or cherrypicked bible verses; make fun of my weight or the fact I live in grammaw's basement. Tell me that I want to hurt, dehumanize, or deprive gays of their rights. Compare me to ISIS, or tell me to get a job. Go ahead and get that out of your system.

Rightly so, I'm probably going to take a lot of heat for this, but so be it. I don't like being lied to, and I don't like having my trust betrayed. My support for gay marriage was wrought out of a lot of moral introspection. I have two sides warring within my conscience, my Christian moral objection to it, and my legal support of it. I wrestled with this issue mightily for a long time. But I decided that I would support it, accept it, and tolerate it. Now I find that my support may have been misplaced.

So, what were the motives of the gay marriage movement? How would I know? I was of the understanding it was for the right to marry like everyone else. I support that. But if Masha Gessen is of any indication, that wasn't really the goal in the first place. And as a result of that, I feel like I was misled. How do you ignore the words of Russia's most prominent LGBT activist?

In her own words, Masha Gessen explained how the institution of marriage should be destroyed. I am getting the distinct impression here that the fight for "marriage" wasn't the goal, it was merely a step along the path. The fight wasn't to attain the right to marry, but right to destroy it. It also seems as if the elites in the LGBT community are purposefully misleading their members as well.

Why would you work to destroy something you fought so hard to attain? Well, it appears the movement, according to Gessen, was never about the right to marry. Marriage is but a dispensable thing in the fight to destroy the institution of marriage.

"It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. … Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie.

The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago.

I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally… I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three… And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.”

-Masha Gessen

Why get married when you could be happy - Life Matters - ABC Radio National Australian Broadcasting Corporation

Russia's most prominent LGBT activist?

Well of course you assume that she speaks for all Gay Americans.

Just like Putin speaks for every anti-gay activist in the United States.

MOSCOW - Russian President Vladimir Putin has offered new assurances to gay athletes and fans attending the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics next month. Yet he defends Russia's anti-gay law by equating gays with pedophiles and says Russia needs to "cleanse" itself of homosexuality if it wants to increase its birth rate.

 

[Misty]

Oh my. See her? In action.

 

[Syriusly]

Do I get to pick one rightwing nut and declare him representative of you and all the other conservatives?

I'm pretty sure you did that with George W. Bush.

But nice deflection. Is this true, what Gessen is saying? You won't address her words, so I must take them as truth.

We can assume that Gessen is speaking her honest opinion.

Just as the anti-gay preachers who call for the death of homosexuals are speaking their honest opinion.

 

[Syriusly]

Deflect, deflect, deflect.

It seems like everyone else in the media knows about her. The NYT, ABC, and the Washington Post. I'm shocked none of you know who she is.

Everyone knows who the Westboro Baptist Church is.

Does that mean they represent the opposition to gay rights?

 

[Syriusly]

It's nice to know that she speaks for the gay agenda.

Ah, and thanks for making the point of this thread, and confirming that what she said was true.

And thank you for confirming that everything that the Westboro Church says is true.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Where are you coming up with the idea that the people you've quoted are somehow "behind" the entire LGBT movement?

I'm looking for a consensus now. Not really who is "behind it."

No, you're not looking for "consensus" - you're looking for something to confirm the biases you already have.

You claimed that I should know the people you quoted because they are "behind" the LGBT movement.

What led you to the conclusion that the LGBT movement in the US is somehow controlled behind the scenes by a Russian activist, an Australian sociology professor, an Australian graduate student, and a collection of other random bloggers?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

She is one among a small few, not "many" - none of whom are actually what you would call "players".

So, why are we suddenly disowning them now?

"We" never owned them.

 

[cnm]

That's why everyone knows you are a dumb fuck.

Ooooh, such a scathing retort.

But unfortunately true.

 

[Seawytch]

LOL. So, here are a few more hoops for you to attempt to jump through. Gessen isn't the sole representative of the LGBT movement, but she is one of many. STATING THE SAME THING. Funny I had all of these stashed away...

1. "Opting out of marriage altogether will provide a quicker path to progress, as only the death of marriage can bring about the dawn of equality for all."
-- Dr. Meagan Tyler,
Lecturer in Sociology at Victoria University

2. "The real question that should be debated is not whether gay marriage should be allowed, but rather, is marriage really something we need anymore?"
-- David Vakalis

3. "A middle ground might be to fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society’s moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution. [Legalizing "same-sex marriage"] is also a chance to wholly transform the definition of family in American culture.”
-- Michelangelo Signorile,
OUT magazine, December/January 1994

4. "And after all, we are advocating the destruction of the centrality of marriage and the nuclear family unit... ."
-- Ryan Conrad

5. "But perhaps the next step isn’t to, once again, expand the otherwise narrow definition of marriage but to altogether abolish the false distinction between married families and other equally valid but unrecognized partnerships."
-- Sally Kohn,
Prop 8: Let’s Get Rid of Marriage Instead!

6. "Wouldn't marriage's death as a state institution, including for straight people, be the best solution? ...Scrap the civil register; make no distinction in the state's eyes between married and unmarried citizens."
-- Alex Gabriel,
Politics.co.uk

7. "Marriage is the proverbial burning building. Instead of pounding on the door to be let in... queers should be stoking the flames!"
-- National Conference on Organized Resistance

8. "Marriage should not be a goal; it should be a choice. One choice available out of many recognized as valid by society. But it isn’t. Not yet. Right now, as far as society is concerned, you are married or you are not yet married. And as that notion becomes further codified our freedom to make other choices steadily erodes."
-- David McGee

9. "We must aim at the abolition of the family, so that the sexist, male supremacist system can no longer be nurtured there."
-- Gay Liberation Front: Manifesto,
London, 1971, revised 1978

10. “Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex and family, and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society. ... We must keep our eyes on the goal ... of radically reordering society’s views of reality." [source]
-- Paula Ettelbrick
National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

11. fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there—because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist."
-- Masha Gessen, journalist
During a panel discussion at the Sydney Writers Festival

It is funny that you had all those "stashed away".

I still don't know who any of those people are, and why you believe they somehow represent the entire LGBT movement.

I know of one and this is what he said:

Incidentally, four out-of-context sentences from my 11,000-word article have been used by anti-gay crusaders to attack gay marriage over and over again for two decades and were even read just this past fall on the floor of the Colombian Senate by an anti-gay politician when that country debated same-sex marriage

Michelangelo Signorile

So TK is a liar