Man who Burned a Quran Fired from Transit Job... I smell... LAWSUIT!

[mal]

He had every right to burn the Koran and the state has every right to fire him for conduct that could be construed to intimidate the public they serve.

So all the people on the street knew he was a public employee?

I highly doubt that. And what's so intimidating about a few pieces of paper being set on fire?

What anyone chooses to do on their own time is nobody's business and certainly not the business of an employer.

I'm sure Ravi is for searching out Liberal Transit Employees at other Protests and making Sure they get Fired also.

Fair is Fair.



peace...

 

[Ravi]

He had every right to burn the Koran and the state has every right to fire him for conduct that could be construed to intimidate the public they serve.

So all the people on the street knew he was a public employee?

I highly doubt that. And what's so intimidating about a few pieces of paper being set on fire?

What anyone chooses to do on their own time is nobody's business and certainly not the business of an employer.

He ended up in the paper...so they know now.

Are you telling me if one of your employees ended up in the paper doing something stupid you wouldn't have the right to fire them?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Something smell fishy about this.
What does the tea party have to do with this?

"He said, 'This is America,' and he wanted to stand up for it, in a Tea Party kind of way," a police source said.

Read more: Koran burner Derek Fenton booted from his job at NJ Transit

 

[Si modo]

He had every right to burn the Koran and the state has every right to fire him for conduct that could be construed to intimidate the public they serve.

So all the people on the street knew he was a public employee?

I highly doubt that. And what's so intimidating about a few pieces of paper being set on fire?

What anyone chooses to do on their own time is nobody's business and certainly not the business of an employer.

He ended up in the paper...so they know now.

Are you telling me if one of your employees ended up in the paper doing something stupid you wouldn't have the right to fire them?

On their own time and absent any off hours conduct stipulation in his job, I would know that my firing him would leave me open for a wrongful termination suit, just for starters. Combined with the fact that I fire someone for practicing their First Ammendment rights, no freaking way would I fire them.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

I dont think burning the Koran warrants his being fired from his job. There should be a review of sorts and he should be offered his job back but no settlement. NJ could justifiably fire him if they feel his actions while off the clock violated their Code of Ethics (but all he did was burn a book so thats not really the case here).

 

[Ravi]

So all the people on the street knew he was a public employee?

I highly doubt that. And what's so intimidating about a few pieces of paper being set on fire?

What anyone chooses to do on their own time is nobody's business and certainly not the business of an employer.

He ended up in the paper...so they know now.

Are you telling me if one of your employees ended up in the paper doing something stupid you wouldn't have the right to fire them?

On their own time and absent any off hours conduct stipulation in his job, I would know that my firing him would leave me open for a wrongful termination suit, just for starters. Combined with the fact that I fire someone for practicing their First Ammendment rights, no freaking way would I fire them.

A lot of my clients are latinos and blacks...if someone in my employ was known to revile something they believed in I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of the employee. Why would I keep someone that made my clients question my judgement?

 

[Si modo]

He ended up in the paper...so they know now.

Are you telling me if one of your employees ended up in the paper doing something stupid you wouldn't have the right to fire them?

On their own time and absent any off hours conduct stipulation in his job, I would know that my firing him would leave me open for a wrongful termination suit, just for starters. Combined with the fact that I fire someone for practicing their First Ammendment rights, no freaking way would I fire them.

A lot of my clients are latinos and blacks...if someone in my employ was known to revile something they believed in I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of the employee. Why would I keep someone that made my clients question my judgement?

On the clock, sure.

Off the clock, unless you have a conduct clause in your employment agreement with the employee and as long as that agreement does not violate their constitutional rights, you might have some difficulty in doing so.

 

[fyrenza]

NJ is not a Right To Work state,

so they'd better have some damned GOOD "cause"

OR

pay him for lost time and STFU about it.

 

[rightwinger]

If Fenton was fired for burning the Koran while off-duty, his First Amendment rights probably were violated, Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union said.

"The Supreme Court has recognized a constitutional right to burn the flag. As reprehensible as it may be, burning the Koran would be protected as well."

The first amendment says you can't be prosecuted for exercising free speech. It does not say anything about firing.

Your boss can still fire you for burning the flag. What it comes down to is that if you do something that embarasses your employer...they can terminate you

 

[Si modo]

NJ is not a Right To Work state,

so they'd better have some damned GOOD "cause"

OR

pay him for lost time and STFU about it.

Excellent point about right to work states, too.

 

[Si modo]

If Fenton was fired for burning the Koran while off-duty, his First Amendment rights probably were violated, Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union said.

"The Supreme Court has recognized a constitutional right to burn the flag. As reprehensible as it may be, burning the Koran would be protected as well."

The first amendment says you can't be prosecuted for exercising free speech. It does not say anything about firing.

Your boss can still fire you for burning the flag. What it comes down to is that if you do something that embarasses your employer...they can terminate you

Off hours and in a non-right to work state, they need cause. And, if their cause violates your constitutional rights, they are in big trouble.

 

[midcan5]

Why would this moron burn a book perceived as sacred by religious people, publicity, hatred of other's beliefs, the cultural milieu of the times? I agree he will probably win, but just as you have no freedom to yell fire anytime you like, you, also as a member of a corporation, have a responsibility to behave in a manner that reflects good judgment on the corporation. If he signed a 'code of conduct' statement, he could actually lose, conduct doesn't change because the clock stopped. Another good reason for the ACLU and Unions to protect nuts, even when they are too ignorant to know.

 

[fyrenza]

The first amendment says you can't be prosecuted for exercising free speech. It does not say anything about firing.

Your boss can still fire you for burning the flag. What it comes down to is that if you do something that embarasses your employer...they can terminate you

WTF country do you live in, pal?!?

HERE, in the USA, employers can ONLY fire you with "no cause" in the Right To Work states;

otherwise, they'd better have a Damned Good Cause,

and, sorry about this, but burning books on your off time is NOT considered a Good Cause by ANYONE!

 

[Ravi]

On their own time and absent any off hours conduct stipulation in his job, I would know that my firing him would leave me open for a wrongful termination suit, just for starters. Combined with the fact that I fire someone for practicing their First Ammendment rights, no freaking way would I fire them.

A lot of my clients are latinos and blacks...if someone in my employ was known to revile something they believed in I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of the employee. Why would I keep someone that made my clients question my judgement?

On the clock, sure.

Off the clock, unless you have a conduct clause in your employment agreement with the employee and as long as that agreement does not violate their constitutional rights, you might have some difficulty in doing so.

No. Publicly mocking the client can get one terminated...just like failing to attempt to meet a client's reasonable request can get one terminated. These are just the facts of life.

 

[Ravi]

If Fenton was fired for burning the Koran while off-duty, his First Amendment rights probably were violated, Chris Dunn of the New York Civil Liberties Union said.

"The Supreme Court has recognized a constitutional right to burn the flag. As reprehensible as it may be, burning the Koran would be protected as well."

The first amendment says you can't be prosecuted for exercising free speech. It does not say anything about firing.

Your boss can still fire you for burning the flag. What it comes down to is that if you do something that embarasses your employer...they can terminate you

Yep.

 

[Si modo]

A lot of my clients are latinos and blacks...if someone in my employ was known to revile something they believed in I would be perfectly justified in getting rid of the employee. Why would I keep someone that made my clients question my judgement?

On the clock, sure.

Off the clock, unless you have a conduct clause in your employment agreement with the employee and as long as that agreement does not violate their constitutional rights, you might have some difficulty in doing so.

No. Publicly mocking the client can get one terminated...just like failing to attempt to meet a client's reasonable request can get one terminated. These are just the facts of life.

Not in a non-right to work state and not while practicing one's First Amendment rights andnot while off the clock.

Civil servants are a bit limitedin their off the clock activities (Hatch Act for feds, which has been challenged several times over the years), but as long as they do not represent themselves as an employee while participating in this sort of activity, they are clear.

But, give a try.

 

[fyrenza]

Why would this moron burn a book perceived as sacred by religious people, publicity, hatred of other's beliefs, the cultural milieu of the times? I agree he will probably win, but just as you have no freedom to yell fire anytime you like, you, also as a member of a corporation, have a responsibility to behave in a manner that reflects good judgment on the corporation. If he signed a 'code of conduct' statement, he could actually lose, conduct doesn't change because the clock stopped. Another good reason for the ACLU and Unions to protect nuts, even when they are too ignorant to know.

Ever heard of Burn Bans? Whenever it gets uber dry, many rural counties issue these notices.

Why?

'Cuz rural folks BURN THEIR TRASH.

I've burnt more books that most folks have read, simply 'cuz the writing or the subject/big idea SUCKED and I was damned if I'd donate 'em and/or trade 'em, and let me rest assure you, IF I had found a Quran amongst them,

IT would have hit the burn barrel pretty immediately, just like any Book of Mormon would have.

I get to think what I want to think and believe what I want to believe,

and if I consider a book TRASH, regardless of it's religious significance to others,

I can throw it away and/or burn it.

But, you know what?

I believe I've just hit upon the solution to this mess:

Throw Qurans into the TRASH, folks that want to make a statement.

Let them become covered in all of the other detritus of normal living.

THAT would pretty much say it ALL, eh?

 

[rightwinger]

If you burn the flag you cannot be prosecuted. If you burn the flag and the front page of the newspaper says "Here is John Smith who is employed by so and so burning the flag" you can be fired

If you do something in your private life that puts your employer in a bad light...you can be fired for it

 

[Si modo]

If you burn the flag you cannot be prosecuted. If you burn the flag and the front page of the newspaper says "Here is John Smith who is employed by so and so burning the flag" you can be fired

If you do something in your private life that puts your employer in a bad light...you can be fired for it

You can try.

If this guy represented himself as an employee, maybe. As a private citizen, no way.

Think about it for a minute. Really, try that.

"The ACLU says a person can’t be fired for off-the-job political expression when that person is employed in a non-policy related role." Correct.

 

[mal]

If you burn the flag you cannot be prosecuted. If you burn the flag and the front page of the newspaper says "Here is John Smith who is employed by so and so burning the flag" you can be fired

If you do something in your private life that puts your employer in a bad light...you can be fired for it

You are only Advocating this way because you Hate the Person in Question...

And mean LITERALLY, you Hate him... And probably just about Everybody that Dares to Disagree with you.

Had this been a Liberal Transit Employee doing the same, you'd be Quoting Case Law, the ACLU and every other Possible thing to Illustrate how this is "Free Speech" in a person's "Free Time"...

Assuming he wasn't on the Clock.

The ACLUs' right on this one.



peace...