Look at all the pretty windmills....

Discussion in 'Environment' started by westwall, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. SSDD
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    SSDD Gold Member

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    Guess you are unaware of what a passerine is. They are birds, generally small with feet adapted for perching...sparrows, finches...etc. The birds you generally see at your bird feeder...Not raptors, which is what this discussion is about.


    It stands to reason that new turbine sites would not have had time to kill many birds doesn't it? Do you live in a permanant fog? And how many of those new sites are in areas where other sites already exist which have already decimated the raptor population?

    And that is OK with you? And it stands to reason that as the population decreases, there will be fewer raptors to kill. Eventually, the grand total of any species of raptor killed by any source will be 1. The fact is that wind turbines are driving raptors, migratory birds, and bats to extinction...
     
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  2. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member

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    No, that's why I support the ongoing improvements. I'm just laughing hard at your "exctinction" BS, and your misplaced priorities.

    So according to your logic, since power lines have always killed raptors, all raptors should now be extinct.

    Your logic would appear to have a few problems.
     
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  3. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    And you are an idiot. Here is the levelized cost of new generation in 2018, without subsidies.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Flash
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    Flash Platinum Member

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    I would like to see the itemized cost basis of that stupid chart. It looks like bullshit to me. Maybe that is the reason there is no reference given.

    For instance, when you look at the cost of nuclear you need to factor in the enormous permitting cost, which is nothing more than a filthy government driven expense. Something like a billion dollars per facility that is not necessary. I know because I have worked on those permits.

    In fact a few years ago I worked on doing a section for a NRC permit for expanding a nuclear power plant in Texas. The section I help write was a requirement to discuss alternative energy to the nuclear power. I have actual experience doing these cost estimates. Not just Googling some biased chart off the internet.

    Fossil fuels are the cheapest forms of energy in the world now and has been for quite awhile. Nuclear would be a close second if it wasn't for the tremendous bureaucracy burden the confused environmental wackos have managed to put on through government permitting.

    The only way that wind and solar is even close to being competitive is with stupid government subsidies of some form or another.

    By the way, I am a retired environmental engineer and sometimes I teach a college class in Environmental Science. One of the subjects I cover is alternative energy. As a class assignment I have the students determine how much an alternative energy would cost to replace what they have in their home. Even with subsidizes when you include all the cost the alternative sources are never competitive. Without subsidizes it ain't even close.

    You should sign up for one of my classes. You might learn something then you wouldn't come across as an uneducated low information environmental wacko.
     
  5. SSDD
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    SSDD Gold Member

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    Tragic to be as twisted as you hairball...simply tragic.
     
  6. mamooth
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    mamooth Gold Member

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    Because you say so? Yeah, that's convincing. But it's clearly all your side has.

    Then you should be able to back up your claims. Yet you can't.

    So, you don't understand economies of scale. Instead, you're pushing a story that everyone has to build their own little windmill farm.

    Your lack of common sense gives away the fact that you're conservative.
     
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  7. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Gee, a lot more really dumb asses have joined this board.

    https://www.lazard.com/media/450784/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-120-vfinal.pdf
     
  8. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    A winning combination in Australia.

     
  9. Old Rocks
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    When something is a success, you build on it;

     
  10. Flash
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    You dumb shit.

    You dumbass Moon Bats don't know any more about alternate energies than you know about Economics, History, Climate Science, Ethics, Biology or the Constitution.

    https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

    Levelized Avoided Cost of ElectricityLCOE does not capture all of the factors that contribute to actual investment decisions, making the direct comparison of LCOE across technologies problematic and misleading as a method to assess the economic competitiveness of various generation alternatives. As illustrated by Figure 1 below, on average, wind LCOE is shown to be the same or lower than solar photovoltaic (PV) LCOE in 2021, with more wind generating capacity expected to be installed than solar PV. Wind LCOE continues to be about the same or lower than solar PV LCOE on average in 2040, but EIA projects much more solar PV capacity to be installed than wind during that time.

    Comparing two different technologies using LCOE alone evaluates only the cost to build and operate a plant and not the value of the plant’s output to the grid. EIA believes an assessment of economic competitiveness between generation technologies can be gained by considering the avoided cost: a measure of what it would cost to generate the electricity that would be displaced by a new generation project. Avoided cost provides a proxy measure for potential revenues from sales of electricity generated from a candidate project. It may be summed over a project’s financial life and converted to a level annualized value that is divided by average annual output of the project to develop itslevelizedavoided cost of electricity (LACE).6 Using LACE and LCOE together gives a more intuitive indication of economic competitiveness for each technology than either metric separately when several technologies are available to meet load. If several technologies are available to meet load, a LACE-to-LCOE ratio (or value-cost ratio) may be calculated for each technology to determine which project provides the most value relative to its cost. Projects with a value-cost ratio greater than one (i.e., LACE is greater thanU.S. Energy Information Administration | Levelized Cost and Levelized Avoided Cost of New Generation Resources AEO20194 LCOE) are more economically attractive as new builds than those with a value-cost ratio less than one (i.e., LACE is less than LCOE).
     

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