"List greatest conservative accomplishments last 20 years": The answer he

[bucs90]

Yes, the Conservatives have given us Keith Olbermann

They provide him with enough material to fill a one hour show five days a week

And we have demonstrated time and again, the right just plain lies. The right makes stuff up and that gives the left something to talk about. Right wing lunacy. Kill Grandma anyone?

If grandma needs an expensive medial procedure, and a board of gov't officials deems it too expensive for her age and that the money would be better spent on 20-something's treatment, doesn't that in fact give grandma the death sentence?

Rationing healthcare based on fairness, rather than simply who can afford it, will in fact lead to some folks dying because the gov't sees a more "fair" use of the money.

 

[Coyote]

If you see an ex-con released from jail, clean up his life, accept Christ as his savior, then begin preaching to inner city youth about the dangers of the fast life, and helping minister to those kids who have no one to look up to.........and just ONE of those kids gets that message, stays away from drugs, gangs and jail, and gets out of the ghetto to live a better life, that is a conservative success story.

really? i'd think it's the result of LIBERAL ideas on rehabilitation.

But how is 'accepting christ' somehow positive? It's a neutral, i'd think. And far more inmates become muslim, i'd think.

Some how....I always thought the CONSERVATIVE idea on rehabilitation went more along the lines of....


If you see a convicted felon fry in the electric chair.....

 

[bucs90]

I agree with the premise of the OP. An accomplishment by government to a conservative is not implementing a bloated government program that raises taxes and keeps as much freedom as possible in a citizen's hands.

I find the OP to be a bit misleading, as none of those things can truly be labelled exclusively "liberal" or "conservative" accomplishments (though both sides would LOVE to be able to take all the credit).

The entire philosophy behind "conservative" is to keep things "unchanged". It's basically a "fear of change". This is why they are anti education. You can't point to "examples of success", unless you point to working towards the failure of others a success.

Anti-education? Snobby liberals convinced of their own brilliance have labeled the right "anti-education" for some reason. I don't know why. We do not like the failure that is public schools. We want school vouchers. The left doesn't. Why? WE want people to be able to get a refund for their wasted tax money to send their kids to better schools. Aka, better education. YOUR side doesn't, because you want to protect unions.

And if something is working, why make drastic changes? We are the richest nation on Earth. Enjoy it. Our "poor" are in the top 5% richest people on Earth.

You say "working towards the failure of others" is a BAD thing? THAT is what capitalism is. THAT is what it means to be noble and set your kids up for a better life than you had. Reality is not EVERYONE can live in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs and drive a Lexus. Some can. The others can still have a nice life. So.........the goal, it seems, is out perform your peers and rise to the higher level of income, status, etc, etc. And how great of a country we have in that those who succeed can have such wealth, and those that they beat out can still live amongst the top 5% richest persons on Earth status. Why change that?????

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

 

[bucs90]

If you see an ex-con released from jail, clean up his life, accept Christ as his savior, then begin preaching to inner city youth about the dangers of the fast life, and helping minister to those kids who have no one to look up to.........and just ONE of those kids gets that message, stays away from drugs, gangs and jail, and gets out of the ghetto to live a better life, that is a conservative success story.

really? i'd think it's the result of LIBERAL ideas on rehabilitation.

But how is 'accepting christ' somehow positive? It's a neutral, i'd think. And far more inmates become muslim, i'd think.

Some how....I always thought the CONSERVATIVE idea on rehabilitation went more along the lines of....


If you see a convicted felon fry in the electric chair.....

If government run, institutional rehab actually worked, we'd support it. It doesn't work. No one can be rehabilitated without that person deciding in his own mind that he is ready for it. Once that happens, the program may be used as a vessel, but the person will fix himself with or without it.

It's the unwillingness of the liberal to believe in the individual that sparks their admiration for big, government run institutional ideals. You people don't think a person can thrive WITHOUT the government. You people don't think a person can earn wealth without being corrupt. Why? Because your sorry asses weren't talented enough, capable enough, or motivated enough to do it yourselves, and your envy is overwhelming.

You liberals have been convinced of your own brilliance and intellectual superiority, thus, anyone who has more wealth and status than you and identifies themselves as conservative must have earned it corruptly, since they couldn't possibly have outsmarted you.

Liberals are the mental oil spill in the minds of this country.

 

[Coyote]

Public Schools = No jail? You said if they aren't in jail, thank public schools? Look at the imprisonment rate of African American males. Compare that with the percentage of them that attended public schools. Then recomment on that issue.

How many of your "conservative" success stories went to public schools?

In the year 2000, there were 76.6 million students enrolled in schools from kindergarten through graduate schools. Of these, 72 percent aged 12 to 17 were judged academically "on track" for their age (enrolled in school at or above grade level). Of those enrolled in compulsory education, 5.2 million (10.4 percent) were attending private schools.

Among the richest Americans (self-made success stories)....the following attended public schools

Larry Ellison (founder of Oracle), Larry Page (google), Michael Dell (Dell), Jeff Bezos (Amazon.com).....

 

[Coyote]

really? i'd think it's the result of LIBERAL ideas on rehabilitation.

But how is 'accepting christ' somehow positive? It's a neutral, i'd think. And far more inmates become muslim, i'd think.

Some how....I always thought the CONSERVATIVE idea on rehabilitation went more along the lines of....


If you see a convicted felon fry in the electric chair.....

If government run, institutional rehab actually worked, we'd support it. It doesn't work. No one can be rehabilitated without that person deciding in his own mind that he is ready for it. Once that happens, the program may be used as a vessel, but the person will fix himself with or without it.

Not exactly.

True - the person must be ready and make the decision, but the government program you deride is no different than the private (Jesus) entities you acclaim: they provide the tools and opportunities to be able to make that change. All the intentions in the world aren't going to do you much good if you serve out your term, and exit prison with a record, lousy education, poor job opportunities (being an ex-con really messes that up).

It's the unwillingness of the liberal to believe in the individual that sparks their admiration for big, government run institutional ideals. You people don't think a person can thrive WITHOUT the government. You people don't think a person can earn wealth without being corrupt. Why? Because your sorry asses weren't talented enough, capable enough, or motivated enough to do it yourselves, and your envy is overwhelming.

Now, "you people" are really showing your ignorance....it's .... overwelming.

You liberals have been convinced of your own brilliance and intellectual superiority, thus, anyone who has more wealth and status than you and identifies themselves as conservative must have earned it corruptly, since they couldn't possibly have outsmarted you.

Liberals are the mental oil spill in the minds of this country.

Who put what in YOUR drinking water today?

 

[Coyote]

I find the OP to be a bit misleading, as none of those things can truly be labelled exclusively "liberal" or "conservative" accomplishments (though both sides would LOVE to be able to take all the credit).

The entire philosophy behind "conservative" is to keep things "unchanged". It's basically a "fear of change". This is why they are anti education. You can't point to "examples of success", unless you point to working towards the failure of others a success.

Anti-education? Snobby liberals convinced of their own brilliance have labeled the right "anti-education" for some reason. I don't know why. We do not like the failure that is public schools. We want school vouchers. The left doesn't. Why? WE want people to be able to get a refund for their wasted tax money to send their kids to better schools. Aka, better education. YOUR side doesn't, because you want to protect unions.

And if something is working, why make drastic changes? We are the richest nation on Earth. Enjoy it. Our "poor" are in the top 5% richest people on Earth.

You say "working towards the failure of others" is a BAD thing? THAT is what capitalism is. THAT is what it means to be noble and set your kids up for a better life than you had. Reality is not EVERYONE can live in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs and drive a Lexus. Some can. The others can still have a nice life. So.........the goal, it seems, is out perform your peers and rise to the higher level of income, status, etc, etc. And how great of a country we have in that those who succeed can have such wealth, and those that they beat out can still live amongst the top 5% richest persons on Earth status. Why change that?????

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

Calm down. Failure isn't really so bad. Learn from it.

 

[Some Guy]

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

It's called the entitlement mentality, and it's quite simple. One person looks at another, sees they have more personal wealth than the other, and decides they are entitled to that for no other reason than the fact that someone else has it, and it doesn't matter if that person won it or worked 100 hours a week for 10 years to get it.

 

[The Rabbi]

The entire philosophy behind "conservative" is to keep things "unchanged". It's basically a "fear of change". This is why they are anti education. You can't point to "examples of success", unless you point to working towards the failure of others a success.

Anti-education? Snobby liberals convinced of their own brilliance have labeled the right "anti-education" for some reason. I don't know why. We do not like the failure that is public schools. We want school vouchers. The left doesn't. Why? WE want people to be able to get a refund for their wasted tax money to send their kids to better schools. Aka, better education. YOUR side doesn't, because you want to protect unions.

And if something is working, why make drastic changes? We are the richest nation on Earth. Enjoy it. Our "poor" are in the top 5% richest people on Earth.

You say "working towards the failure of others" is a BAD thing? THAT is what capitalism is. THAT is what it means to be noble and set your kids up for a better life than you had. Reality is not EVERYONE can live in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs and drive a Lexus. Some can. The others can still have a nice life. So.........the goal, it seems, is out perform your peers and rise to the higher level of income, status, etc, etc. And how great of a country we have in that those who succeed can have such wealth, and those that they beat out can still live amongst the top 5% richest persons on Earth status. Why change that?????

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

Calm down. Failure isn't really so bad. Learn from it.

I truly believe you speak with authority here since "Failure" is your middle name.

 

[Coyote]

Anti-education? Snobby liberals convinced of their own brilliance have labeled the right "anti-education" for some reason. I don't know why. We do not like the failure that is public schools. We want school vouchers. The left doesn't. Why? WE want people to be able to get a refund for their wasted tax money to send their kids to better schools. Aka, better education. YOUR side doesn't, because you want to protect unions.

And if something is working, why make drastic changes? We are the richest nation on Earth. Enjoy it. Our "poor" are in the top 5% richest people on Earth.

You say "working towards the failure of others" is a BAD thing? THAT is what capitalism is. THAT is what it means to be noble and set your kids up for a better life than you had. Reality is not EVERYONE can live in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs and drive a Lexus. Some can. The others can still have a nice life. So.........the goal, it seems, is out perform your peers and rise to the higher level of income, status, etc, etc. And how great of a country we have in that those who succeed can have such wealth, and those that they beat out can still live amongst the top 5% richest persons on Earth status. Why change that?????

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

Calm down. Failure isn't really so bad. Learn from it.

I truly believe you speak with authority here since "Failure" is your middle name.

...and here I thought the "F" was for "Fuck you"

 

[bucs90]

The entire philosophy behind "conservative" is to keep things "unchanged". It's basically a "fear of change". This is why they are anti education. You can't point to "examples of success", unless you point to working towards the failure of others a success.

Anti-education? Snobby liberals convinced of their own brilliance have labeled the right "anti-education" for some reason. I don't know why. We do not like the failure that is public schools. We want school vouchers. The left doesn't. Why? WE want people to be able to get a refund for their wasted tax money to send their kids to better schools. Aka, better education. YOUR side doesn't, because you want to protect unions.

And if something is working, why make drastic changes? We are the richest nation on Earth. Enjoy it. Our "poor" are in the top 5% richest people on Earth.

You say "working towards the failure of others" is a BAD thing? THAT is what capitalism is. THAT is what it means to be noble and set your kids up for a better life than you had. Reality is not EVERYONE can live in a 5 bedroom house in the suburbs and drive a Lexus. Some can. The others can still have a nice life. So.........the goal, it seems, is out perform your peers and rise to the higher level of income, status, etc, etc. And how great of a country we have in that those who succeed can have such wealth, and those that they beat out can still live amongst the top 5% richest persons on Earth status. Why change that?????

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

Calm down. Failure isn't really so bad. Learn from it.

When it happens to me, I will.

Til then I'll keep blasting failed gov't schools, failed gov't welfar, failed gov't rehab programs, failed gov't border control, failed gov't healthcare that is bankrupting us.......need I go on?

Relying on gov't doesnt work. Allowing envy to drive one's political views doesn't either.

 

[bucs90]

I'll tell you why, and it is purely leftist thinking: Envy. You sorry, pathetic liberals can't stand seeing someone else that has more than you. Your envy is so ingrained, and you all are so bitter about it, you can't just be thankful to live in America among the richest 5% of the world. You want to bring down the "evil" rich people. You bloodsucking piece of sh** liberals are motivated by nothing but pure envy. You can say you aren't, and come up with all the excuses and feel good stories you want, but the root of the liberal agenda is pure envy.

It's called the entitlement mentality, and it's quite simple. One person looks at another, sees they have more personal wealth than the other, and decides they are entitled to that for no other reason than the fact that someone else has it, and it doesn't matter if that person won it or worked 100 hours a week for 10 years to get it.

Exactly.

Liberals just can't handle people having more than them. They're like crying children.

But WORSE for them is when a rightwinger has more than them. They assume they are smarter than all rightwingers, thus, for a rightwinger to have more it must be from corruption, and must be taken away from them.

Libs have placed themselves on a self-appointed superior level of intellect. So, they know better and must take away from others to properly redistribute the goods. The idea that there is a competition for wealth and status frightens them. They want gov't mandated equality.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

American Liberals are just cowards, afraid to look at themselves, afraid to fail, afraid to even try.

It burns them to Hell when someone succeeds, they hate that worse than anything because it magnifies their failures.

They hid behind Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Progressivism because anything is better taking a chance.

The only way we lose to these losers is because both political parties can't stand individuals, so it's been a death spiral for what made this country great

 

[Scaybeez]

American Liberals are just cowards, afraid to look at themselves, afraid to fail, afraid to even try.

It burns them to Hell when someone succeeds, they hate that worse than anything because it magnifies their failures.

Oh nonsense.

 

[bucs90]

American Liberals are just cowards, afraid to look at themselves, afraid to fail, afraid to even try.

It burns them to Hell when someone succeeds, they hate that worse than anything because it magnifies their failures.

Oh nonsense.

How so?

The modern American liberal lives in a country whose poor are among the 5% richest people on Earth. Our poor live better than Europe's middle class.

Yet, they do nothing but bitch about rich people's greed, about raising taxes on the rich, and about what the government should do to give people more entitlements. It's absolute envy based class warfare. American liberals are the rich yelling at the richer for being so rich. It's absurd.

Until a loony liberal forfeits all his money to the government and moves to a 3rd world country, they have no legitimacy when complaining about the rich.

 

[Scaybeez]

How so?

The modern American liberal lives in a country whose poor are among the 5% richest people on Earth. Our poor live better than Europe's middle class.

Yet, they do nothing but bitch about rich people's greed, about raising taxes on the rich, and about what the government should do to give people more entitlements. It's absolute envy based class warfare. American liberals are the rich yelling at the richer for being so rich. It's absurd.

Until a loony liberal forfeits all his money to the government and moves to a 3rd world country, they have no legitimacy when complaining about the rich.

Though what's your point in bringing this up? Are you intentionally insinuating that people have to be literally starving to death in the streets before they have a legitimate reason for complaint in this country? I mean, let's take this reasoning of yours one step further. The conservatives in this country are ramping up their rhetoric for the '10 elections, focusing specifically on the roughly 10% unemployment in this country. Perhaps they should simply get over it? After all, that's nothing compared to the 35% unemployment in Afghanistan, or 42% in Bosnia, or the 85% in Liberia. There's always someone in worse shape. That doesn't mean there are no legitimate reasons for criticism or social change.

 

[bucs90]

How so?

The modern American liberal lives in a country whose poor are among the 5% richest people on Earth. Our poor live better than Europe's middle class.

Yet, they do nothing but bitch about rich people's greed, about raising taxes on the rich, and about what the government should do to give people more entitlements. It's absolute envy based class warfare. American liberals are the rich yelling at the richer for being so rich. It's absurd.

Until a loony liberal forfeits all his money to the government and moves to a 3rd world country, they have no legitimacy when complaining about the rich.

Though what's your point in bringing this up? Are you intentionally insinuating that people have to be literally starving to death in the streets before they have a legitimate reason for complaint in this country? I mean, let's take this reasoning of yours one step further. The conservatives in this country are ramping up their rhetoric for the '10 elections, focusing specifically on the roughly 10% unemployment in this country. Perhaps they should simply get over it? After all, that's nothing compared to the 35% unemployment in Afghanistan, or 42% in Bosnia, or the 85% in Liberia. There's always someone in worse shape. That doesn't mean there are no legitimate reasons for criticism or social change.

Oh, I agree with you there. Now, if a CEO who just laid of 5% of his workforce showed up at the RNC rally whining about unemployment, yes, you'd have that point.

I'm talking about liberals who are among the worlds richest people, simply by being an American citizen, complaining about the greed of the rich. THEY are the rich of the world.

I think one reason the right is bringing up unemployment is the fact that Obama is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, even though some Dem's are even saying not to. If we raise taxes on the rich, including rich companies and rich business owners, they're gonna have to lay off workers to make the budget even. With high unemployment, why would we raise those taxes, thus ensuring more people become unemployed?

Right now we need to be catering to business, allowing them the extra capital to be able to expand and hire, not take it away from them.

My point is the "rich people are evil" cries from far left types are absurd. Rich people pay for so much of this country. We should be grateful to them, but THEN focus our energy on the responsible use of the tax money we take from them. So much tax money is wasted.

But I for one am thankful and grateful to the rich. They employ me, and their tax money pays for so much of the system that allows this nation to be so great. Are some greedy? Hell yeah. All humans are.

 

[Scaybeez]

Oh, I agree with you there. Now, if a CEO who just laid of 5% of his workforce showed up at the RNC rally whining about unemployment, yes, you'd have that point.

I'm talking about liberals who are among the worlds richest people, simply by being an American citizen, complaining about the greed of the rich. THEY are the rich of the world.

I think one reason the right is bringing up unemployment is the fact that Obama is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, even though some Dem's are even saying not to. If we raise taxes on the rich, including rich companies and rich business owners, they're gonna have to lay off workers to make the budget even. With high unemployment, why would we raise those taxes, thus ensuring more people become unemployed?

Right now we need to be catering to business, allowing them the extra capital to be able to expand and hire, not take it away from them.

My point is the "rich people are evil" cries from far left types are absurd. Rich people pay for so much of this country. We should be grateful to them, but THEN focus our energy on the responsible use of the tax money we take from them. So much tax money is wasted.

But I for one am thankful and grateful to the rich. They employ me, and their tax money pays for so much of the system that allows this nation to be so great. Are some greedy? Hell yeah. All humans are.

Okay, fair enough. In the grand scheme of things, even the poorest among us are rich in comparison to people in highly impoverished countries. I can concede that. I can also concede that not all rich people are evil and that the taxes collected from businesses are important and necessary in keeping this country going. Though, even with that in mind, I can still find the gap between the rich and poor within our country, and the centralization of wealth, to be troubling, etc.

On another point, I would actually argue that the extra capital is already accumulating, but big business is simply holding onto it for the time being (waiting to see what the near future - in terms of health care costs - holds).

And personally, while I support the repealing of the tax cuts at some point, I'm not sure now is the wisest time. Once a recovery is solidly underway, great, but we're not there yet.

 

[bucs90]

Oh, I agree with you there. Now, if a CEO who just laid of 5% of his workforce showed up at the RNC rally whining about unemployment, yes, you'd have that point.

I'm talking about liberals who are among the worlds richest people, simply by being an American citizen, complaining about the greed of the rich. THEY are the rich of the world.

I think one reason the right is bringing up unemployment is the fact that Obama is going to let the Bush tax cuts expire, even though some Dem's are even saying not to. If we raise taxes on the rich, including rich companies and rich business owners, they're gonna have to lay off workers to make the budget even. With high unemployment, why would we raise those taxes, thus ensuring more people become unemployed?

Right now we need to be catering to business, allowing them the extra capital to be able to expand and hire, not take it away from them.

My point is the "rich people are evil" cries from far left types are absurd. Rich people pay for so much of this country. We should be grateful to them, but THEN focus our energy on the responsible use of the tax money we take from them. So much tax money is wasted.

But I for one am thankful and grateful to the rich. They employ me, and their tax money pays for so much of the system that allows this nation to be so great. Are some greedy? Hell yeah. All humans are.

Okay, fair enough. In the grand scheme of things, even the poorest among us are rich in comparison to people in highly impoverished countries. I can concede that. I can also concede that not all rich people are evil and that the taxes collected from businesses are important and necessary in keeping this country going. Though, even with that in mind, I can still find the gap between the rich and poor within our country, and the centralization of wealth, to be troubling, etc.

On another point, I would actually argue that the extra capital is already accumulating, but big business is simply holding onto it for the time being (waiting to see what the near future - in terms of health care costs - holds).

And personally, while I support the repealing of the tax cuts at some point, I'm not sure now is the wisest time. Once a recovery is solidly underway, great, but we're not there yet.

Hmm. Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I think both right and left sometimes fail to put things into perspective. We should look at the gap in rich/poor in America, but to an extent be reasonable about what we're willing to do to close it.

I think you're point on in the idea that businesses are holding on to extra capital right now because they are nervous. Part of it is healthcare. Part is just a shaky economy.

I also think the left has a point when we talk about cutting spending, but then saying are we willing to cut medicare, social security, etc. That is a reality, but no politican, on either side, wants to be the one standing up saying "This is getting cut, deal with it". Except maybe Chris Christy Gov. of New Jersey. That guy is a conservative budget buzzsaw right now.

 

[code1211]

If you see a small business that opens up, with owners working 70 hours a week to get by, selling an honest product and good service, then expanding by 2 stores, then by 5, then by 10, then by 50, then going publicly traded.....thats a conservative success story.

And what percentage of rich people started as small business owners working 70 hours a week?

.

Every "rich" person I know is a small business owner, lawyers, doctors, dentists, carpenters, engineers, and every one of them has several stories of eating macaroni for weeks on end, making payroll before paying themselves, working 70 and more hours every week.

If you know nothing about a topic, it's good to listen to those who do know and learn something or, as Abe Lincoln might say, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."

I suppose that I could have been rich, but I never had that driving passion to do so. I don't begrudge those who are rich. I applaud them and hope that there are others willing to make the sacrifices so others, myself included, can just flow along with the current.