"List greatest conservative accomplishments last 20 years": The answer he

Discussion in 'Politics' started by bucs90, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. bucs90
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    bucs90 Gold Member

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    I saw this on another thread, where a liberal was demanding someone show the top conservative accomplishments of the last 20 years. He said "there are none" and the debate began. I thought this was a HUGE question and of great importance. BUT, not in the context he was asking. Thats why it's so imporant. Here is the answer:

    To find the greatest accomplishments of conservatism in the last 20 years, you CANNOT look for big government accomplishments, as conservatism is not reflected through big government, it is reflected through individual accomplishment and freedom! It is reflected through family values, good parenting at home, setting one's children up for future success, etc, etc. It is reflected by what is possible when the government gets out of the way, and responsible behavior leads one's life.

    If you see a set of grandparents enjoying their golden years out of debt, with their children living a modest but independent life, debt free, out of trouble, and grandchildren in school, not in jail, living well, thats a conservative success story.

    If you see a small business that opens up, with owners working 70 hours a week to get by, selling an honest product and good service, then expanding by 2 stores, then by 5, then by 10, then by 50, then going publicly traded.....thats a conservative success story.

    If you see a selfless soldier or cop, carrying a gun into a danger area, on behalf of strangers, and getting no recognition or wealth from it, that is a conservative success story.

    If you see an ex-con released from jail, clean up his life, accept Christ as his savior, then begin preaching to inner city youth about the dangers of the fast life, and helping minister to those kids who have no one to look up to.........and just ONE of those kids gets that message, stays away from drugs, gangs and jail, and gets out of the ghetto to live a better life, that is a conservative success story.

    If you see an inner city youth, with no father at home, surrounded by gangs, hip hop culture, drugs, etc, that instead focuses on academics and athletics, graduates, goes to college, gets married, has a family and a business, and sets HIS kids up to live a better life than he did, thats conservative values in action.

    And the idea behind conservatives in government is to minimalize the impact of government on a free society as to produce the best opportunity for more of the above success stories to happen. Conservative success stories are anytime a person takes responsiblity for his own debt, his own health, his own education, his own family, his own freedom, his own children.

    And that is why you will seldom be able to point to a big government legislative act to reflect the ideals of conservatism, because conservative success is reflected in the glory and success of the individual, not in the glory and success of legislation that will promise an individual something that he should be earning on his own.
     
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  2. bigrebnc1775
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    bigrebnc1775 Diamond Member

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    Nicely put buc:clap2:
     
  3. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    that's lie number one: it's because of social security, a LIBERAL accomplishment. Before it existed, 50% of all senior citizens lived in poverty. If there kids are in school, not jail, you can thank the public school system... something rightwingnuts have been trying to destroy for a very long time. if they're debt free, thank minimum wage laws and OSHA and medicare/medicaid and, again, social security... all LIBERAL accomplishments.

    And what percentage of rich people started as small business owners working 70 hours a week?

    i'm not sure how anything in that reflects a conservative accomplishment. so we won't call that a lie, we'll call it wishful thinking and exaggeration on your part.

    funny, again, i have no clue how you pretend those things are 'conservative', other than the 'no wealth' part.

    really? i'd think it's the result of LIBERAL ideas on rehabilitation.

    But how is 'accepting christ' somehow positive? It's a neutral, i'd think. And far more inmates become muslim, i'd think.

    actually, that's out and out fantasy... if they've succeeded, it was because of LIBERAL programs like Head Start, LIBERAL education, LIBERAL values like making sure that inner city kids have the opportunities more privileged kids have... something the right has worked against for a generation.

    more lies... conservatives love big government when it tells people what to do with their bodies or impose prayer in school... you only hate government when you don't like what government is doing.

    no...it's because by definition accomplishment is forward thinking, not regressive...

    there hasn't been a conservative solution to any problem... ever.

    finally, conservatism is a means of problem solving, not a bunch of ideologic BS about what you can and can't believe.
     
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  4. bucs90
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    bucs90 Gold Member

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    Social security: It's going to bankrupt future generations. But, most cons don't mind a little helping hand through modest taxes. We're OK with that.

    Public Schools = No jail? You said if they aren't in jail, thank public schools? Look at the imprisonment rate of African American males. Compare that with the percentage of them that attended public schools. Then recomment on that issue.

    Small Bix/Rich People: You said what % of rich people started as small biz and worked their way up. Well, ALL of them, or ALL of them had parents who did, or all just worked their asses off through a corporation to get it. See, when we landed on America, it was just dirt and trees. It's now rich. Thats because poor people worked hard and got rich. Passing wealth along to one's children so they can live a good life is a NOBLE thing not to be ashamed of.

    Liberal rehad/programs: You said the success examples were the result of liberal rehab programs and head start, etc. If so, those situations would be the norm, not the exception. Those programs are failures. NO ONE can change and succeed until THAT PERSON makes that decision individually, in their own mind. Once that is done, they will thrive with or without a program.


    Basically, Jillian, your responses are a prime example of the problem with liberals. You believe the individual is not capable of anything without the crutch of a government program or handout. That is simply untrue. And it fools people into thinking they cannot do it without outside help. The individual is capable of ANYTHING once they believe they can do it, and set their minds to it. But the liberal ideology makes people lose belief that they can do it alone. And that is sad.

    But, you illustrated the liberal ideology perfectly: The belief that a person's success lies in a government program, not in their individual will, determination and belief in themselves.

    I, on the other hand, believe in all persons, of all races, and believe that each individual is capable of greatness through nothing but their own hard work, belief and committment.
     
  5. bucs90
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    bucs90 Gold Member

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    In summary, Jillian, if all those feel-good liberal programs worked............then why are our inner city schools still a chaotic nightmare, and why are most prisoners likely to return to jail, and why is social security going bankrupt?

    No program, no entitlement, NOTHING will put a person on the path to success unless they are ready to do it in their own mind. And once that happens, liberal programs aren't necessary. I won't deny the occassional person that uses one of those programs as a vessel to that success. But the success is due to the person, not the program.

    And that is the main seperation, imo, in the two mindsets. To what is the success owed? The program, or the person? If the answer is the programs, then their success rate would be 80% or more. But a look at our inner city schools, our jails, etc, reflect that the programs do not work.

    Instead, we should start convincing people to believe in THEMSELVES rather than to wait on and rely on a program for their salvation and success.

    But an independent population does not coexist with a big government and officials looking for election. Only dependence guarantees job security for a politician. Unfortunately, they, along with you, are convincing people of their dependency on gov't programs.
     
  6. hortysir
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    hortysir In Memorial of 47

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    Jillian, your reply is full of assumptions based not on facts presented in the OP, but purely on ego for your party..

    A working adult can set aside their own retirement without having to rely on SS. They can put their kids through private schools without the help of vouchers.
    An inner city teen can get ahead and stay clear of gangs on sheer will-power alone.
    A criminal can reflect inward and rehabilitate himself without the help of any social program (see: will-power).


    To suggest that Americans can't do well for themselves, without constant aid and intervention from the government, is very insulting and ego-maniacal of you and your party.
     
  7. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    The triumph of conservativism is the defeat of communism, which ahs meant freedom and prosperity for hundreds of millions of people, from Eastern Europe to South America to Asia.
    If your phone bills are a fraction of what they were 30 years, thank a conservative
    If your plane fares are lower than they were 30 years ago, thank a conservative.
    If your stock brokerage commissions are lower, thank a conservative.
    If your ability to own and carry guns is greater now than 20 years ago, thank a conservative.
    If there are fewer people on welfare now, thank a conservative.

    The list goes on and on. Because conservatism is the antithesis of big government. It is nothing less than freedom itself.
     
  8. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    Really? My dad was a civil service employee and a successful union organizer. My mother (his widow) is living her golden years out of debt, on his pension, plus her S.S., plus access to reasonably priced healthcare via Medicare. None of it has anything to do with conservatism.

    And I'm not in jail. lol

    So try again. Leave out the bullshit this time.

    Quit trying to co-opt the achievements of the center/left for the crackpot right.

    The question, by the way, is, is the country more conservative than it was 20 years ago.

    The answer is no, because conservatism is an ongoing neverending series of failures and lost causes.
     
  9. Douger
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    Douger BANNED

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    "List greatest conservative accomplishments last 20 years": The answer he"

    Perpetual war and the sales of murkin flags.
    Make that 60 years.
     
  10. Father Time
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    Father Time I'll be Still Alive

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    A meaningless term if I ever saw one, please don't try to pretend liberals can't have family values.

    Those are neither conservative nor liberal values.

    So if Heffner (or Flynt) has grandkids (and I have no idea if he does) that's a conservative success story despite conservatives trying to run him out of business?

    Hey let me try. If you see an old man walking down the street while his granddaughters enjoy the quaint wonder of nature and all it's cliches that's a Polaroid moment err I mean a conservative success story.

    Now you finally get it. The question is what have conservatives in the US government accomplished. What laws or decisions have they made that you can point to and claim were a good thing? Who cares what private citizens do, who cares what the pundits do? This is about the politicians, no one else.

    So a conservative success story can be accomplished by a radical liberal? Methinks conservative success stories are overrated.

    Then point to political acts made by conservatives that have shrunk government and provided more freedom.

    Or were you just trying to say that conservatives can't accomplish anything in government (I'm not a conservative and I don't buy that).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2010

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