Joseph McCarthy Was Right in Most Cases

[JoeB131]

As for your warped, PRC version of China's history, allow me to just note that you have once again made the obscene claim that the Chinese people were and are better off because of Mao's murderous, barbaric rule.

Of course they were. They went from a shattered country ruled by warlords, living in abject poverty, being looted by foreigners, to a world power.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I wanted to come back to these howlers from JoeB131 because I didn't have time to do them justice in my reply yesterday.

Not saying Communism is a good thing. I'm saying - if that's what they picked, that's their choice. I'm sorry this is unclear to you. If the Commies took over those places, it was because of the Nationalism caused by imperial excesses by Europe, America and finally, the worst of the worst, Japan.

Oh, so the people of China, North Korea, and North Vietnam "picked" communism?! Uh, well, this might be what your PRC handlers have taught you, but most of us here in the free world know that Communist rule was imposed on those populations by deception and coercion, and when those people began to realize that the Communists' promises were false, the Communists had to resort to vicious brutality to maintain control.

-- That's why the Communists found it necessary to rule with an iron hand in the areas of China that they occupied before and during the war.

-- That's why the vast majority of Chinese POWs chose to be sent to Taiwan, i.e., Free China, instead of staying in Red China after the war.

-- That's why Mao had to murder tens of millions of Chinese and force millions of others to work in forced-labor camps after he came to power.

-- That's why Mao and this thugs had to operate massive naval patrols along Red China's coast in the Taiwan Strait and in the waters between Red China and Hong Kong to try to keep their unfortunate subjects from trying to swim to Taiwan and Hong Kong.

-- That's why the Communist thugs in North Korea had to quickly impose a police state on the country to maintain their control.

-- That's why hundreds of thousands of North Koreans near the 38th Parallel risked their lives to try to flee to South Korea during the Korean War.

-- That's why North Vietnam had to use large numbers of troops on its southern border to keep its subjects from fleeing to South Vietnam during the war.

-- That's why some 800,000 Vietnamese fled Vietnam in all kinds of boats to escape to freedom after the Communists took over, and why about 1.2 million of Vietnamese fled the country by other means. Many more would have fled if they had been able to do so.

Finally, to repeat what I've already documented for you--including two Senate reports on the loss of China--the Communists won in China (1) because Truman and Marshall cut off aid to the Nationalists at a crucial time, (2) because Truman and Marshall imposed treasonous ceasefires that allowed the Communists to avoid destruction, (3) because Truman and Marshall insisted that the Nationalists include the Communists in the government, and (4) because the Soviets gave the Chinese Communists tons of weapons and ammo.

 

[whitehall]

McCarthy might have been a "reckless muckraker" but he was just a senator. Democrats were in charge and the Truman democrats logically thought that Communism was a threat to America. HUAC was a Truman democrat majority operation and at their peak they still had no power to blacklist anyone. Hollywood fired it's own when they thought they would lose money and (you almost gotta laugh) managed to blame the whole unfortunate era on a single republican senator.

 

[mikegriffith1]

So I take it you're not going to provide the names of just two people whose lives were destroyed by false accusations by McCarthy? You just said above that McCarthy "destroyed the lives of hundreds of people." In my previous reply, I asked you to provide the names of just two people whose lives were unjustly wrecked by McCarthy. I notice you snipped out that request. Why was that? Because you can't name two such people?

Well, we could talk about all the people in Hollywood that were blacklisted...

Hollywood blacklist - Wikipedia

Ten people convicted of contempt of Congress because they refused to name names.

LOL!!!!! If you had bothered to even read that article--the article that you cited--you would have discovered that Joseph McCarthy had nothing to do with the Hollywood blacklists! Nothing. Zippo. Nada. Zilch. The blacklists resulted from investigations by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

If you had bothered to read the articles I provide in the OP, you would have already known this.

We can also talk about Schoolteacher Ann Hale.

How the Red Scare destroyed a small-town teac433her - The Boston Globe

Yeah, let's talk about that: McCarthy had nothing to do with Ann Hale's case! Nothing. Do you even read articles before you cite them, or do you just go by the article titles and assume they support your position? Did they not teach basic research skills at the college where you supposedly got your history degree?

Furthermore, let's take a brief look at Hale's case. Hale's views caused concern among her friends and neighbors; they considered her views to be anti-American, and it was they who contacted her school and expressed concern. The school committee then conducted an investigation and concluded that she had lied to them about key issues about which they had asked her.

So, I ask you again: Can you name two people whose lives were ruined by false charges made by Senator McCarthy?

 

[Tax Man]

So joe the assclown had congressional hearings that I watched on TV and he was a real dipshit. All he ever did do was wrong for humanity.

 

[Vandalshandle]

When you decide to do serious research on Senator Joseph McCarthy, you soon discover that McCarthy was right in most cases. Far from being the reckless muckraker that most of our history books have long claimed he was, if anything, we now know that McCarthy somewhat understated the severity of Communist penetration into the U.S. government.

When the Venona decrypts were released in 1995, we discovered that they identified at least 349 people who cooperated in various ways with Soviet intelligence agencies. For example, the Venona files reveal that the Senate Civil Liberties Subcommittee, chaired by former Senator Robert LaFollette, whom McCarthy defeated in 1946, had at least four staff members working on behalf of the KGB. John Abt, the Chief Counsel of the Committee; Charles Kramer, who served on three other Congressional Committees; Allen Rosenberg, who also served on the National Labor Relations Board, Board of Economic Warfare (BEW), the Foreign Economic Administration (FEA), and later argued cases before the United States Supreme Court; and Charles Flato, who served on the BEW and FEA, were all members of the Communist Party USA and were associated with the Soviet-run Comintern.

No credible scholar now denies that Soviet agents and sympathizers penetrated into the highest levels of the U.S. government in the 1930s and 1940s, including the White House and the State Department. It has long been known that the Soviets were able to place agents into the top levels of the Manhattan Project, and that one of them, Klaus Fuchs, even attended the first nuke test in New Mexico and then sent a detailed report about it to Joseph Stalin. It has also been known for a long time that FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, Harry Dexter White, was a Soviet spy, and that one of the members of the team that FDR took to Yalta, Alger Hiss, was also a Soviet Spy. In 1944, Hiss became director of the State Department's Office of Special Political Affairs. We have also known for some time now that some American officials in China and/or who worked on China affairs were Communist agents or sympathizers, such as John Stewart Service, Solomon Adler, Owen Lattimore, and Lauchlin Currie--these men played an important role in feeding false information about the state of affairs in China back to Washington.

Time does not allow me to address all the myths and distortions that liberals have spun about Senator McCarthy, so I will deal with one of the main ones, an issue that is hammered on in every anti-McCarthy book and article: the number of names that McCarthy claimed to have of Communist agents and sympathizers/security risks.

Liberals have claimed that McCarthy couldn't even decide how many names he had of Communists and pro-Communists/security risks. Historian James Drummond explains the matter:

Q. Wasn't it reported that McCarthy used the number 205 in his Wheeling speech, lowered it to 57 later, and then raised it again to 81?​

A. Yes, this was reported, and here is the explanation: In the Wheeling speech, McCarthy referred to a letter that Secretary of State James Byrnes sent to Congressman Adolph Sabath in 1946. In that letter, Byrnes said that State Department security investigators had declared 284 persons unfit to hold jobs in the department because of Communist connections and other reasons, but that only 79 had been discharged, leaving 205 still on the State Department's payroll. McCarthy told his Wheeling audience that while he did not have the names of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter, he did have the names of 57 who were either members of or loyal to the Communist Party. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy gave the Senate information about 81 individuals -- the 57 referred to at Wheeling and 24 others of less importance and about whom the evidence was less conclusive.​

The enemies of McCarthy have juggled these numbers around to make the Senator appear to be erratic and to distract attention from the paramount question: Were there still Alger Hisses in the State Department betraying this nation? McCarthy was not being inconsistent in his use of the numbers; the 57 and 81 were part of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter. (The New American - McCarthyism - Forty questions and answers about Senator Joseph McCarthy - May 11, 1987)​

Sources for further study:

M. Stanton Evans' seminal book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies

M. Stanton Evans' Response to Ronald Radosh

Two Defenses of McCarthy by Two 1950s Conservatives

Conservapedia Article on Joseph McCarthy

Summary of Arthur Herman's Book on Joseph McCarthy

40 Questions and Answers About Senator McCarthy

Owen Lattiimore

Solomon Adler

Lauchlin Currie

The Venona Files

​

You just never tire of posting shit that you and your RW radical pals dig out of your asses, do you?

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, so the people of China, North Korea, and North Vietnam "picked" communism?! Uh, well, this might be what your PRC handlers have taught you, but most of us here in the free world know that Communist rule was imposed on those populations by deception and coercion, and when those people began to realize that the Communists' promises were false, the Communists had to resort to vicious brutality to maintain control.

Or this "Brutality" often happened in countries that had undergone years of civil war/foreign invasion, and life was already cheapened.

The reality, you stupid fascist fuck, is that the people we backed were corrupt and incompetent and often quislings for foreign invaders. THAT'S WHY THEY LOST.

-- That's why the Communists

Oh, boy, more Bircher shit...

-- That's why North Vietnam had to use large numbers of troops on its southern border to keep its subjects from fleeing to South Vietnam during the war.

Yeah, funny thing. ONce we stopped propping Saigon up, they were gone in 55 days. For Sale, 500,000 ARVN rifles. Never fired, only dropped once.

The problem you seem to have is you confuse why the Communists won. It's not because the people of China or N. Vietnam (North Korea is a different case) suddenly loved them some Karl Marx.

It was because the people who they were fighting against were seen as tools of the west or quislings...

LOL!!!!! If you had bothered to even read that article--the article that you cited--you would have discovered that Joseph McCarthy had nothing to do with the Hollywood blacklists! Nothing. Zippo. Nada. Zilch. The blacklists resulted from investigations by the House Un-American Activities Committee.

If you had bothered to read the articles I provide in the OP, you would have already known this.

According to you, Drunken Joe was the Piano Player at the whorehouse who had no idea what was going on upstairs.

There's a reason why the movement of the hysterical Red Scare of the 1950's is called "McCarthyism" today and not "Nixonism". Because Tricky Dick knew there were sensible limits..

 

[rightwinger]

It wasn’t just suspected Communists but suspected homosexuals that had their lives ruined. All on little evidence other than a Jewish name or rumors

Surely you can cite at least one example of this, right? Name one.

Here you go.....
And don’t call me Shirley

Lavender scare - Wikipedia

 

[mikegriffith1]

By the way, regarding Ann Hale, whom liberals portray as an innocent victim of paranoid conservatives, and whom JoeB131 erroneously identified as a victim of McCarthy's allegedly false charges, let us consider what a what special commission established by the state of Massachusetts said about her. I’m not talking about the local school committee that concluded she was lying and that she deserved to be fired, after some of her friends and neighbors expressed concerns to the school about her views. I’m talking about a special commission set up by one of the most liberal states in the country. Here is what that commission had to say about poor little ole’ Miss Hale:

Miss Ann Hale is a native of Massachusetts. She has a long history of activity within the Communist Party. This fact was established during the course of our investigation by admissions of Miss Hale herself and by our own investigation.​

On March 31, 1954, Miss Hale appeared as a witness before this Commission in Executive Session. At that time she admitted that she had been a member of the Communist Party, that she joined it approximately in 1938 and had continued to be an active member of it until approximately 1951. She said that she never formally resigned from the Party, but just dropped out. She admitted that she had held various offices in branches of the Communist Party, had been chairman, secretary, treasurer, literary distributor of various branches at various times in New York State and in Massachusetts; that she had been a subscriber and had sold the “Daily Worker” and the “Sunday Worker”, had distributed various Marxist texts; had held the office of chairman, and also of literary director of the Harvard Square branch of the Communist Party; had led discussions as chairman of Communist meetings on the doctrines of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin; had been a member of the Rubber branch of the Communist Party in Cambridge; had frequented the headquarters of the Communist Party of Massachusetts when it was in the Little Building in Boston; and had attended classes there on Communist matters. She did not invoke the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution or the Twelfth Article of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights at the Executive Hearing, but she did invoke the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and refused to give the names of any one with whom she was associated in the Communist Party in Massachusetts, or disclose the place of the meetings.​

At the time of her appearance in the Executive Session, she was then a teacher in the second grade in the public schools at Wayland, Mass.​

At a public hearing before this Commission on January 7, 1955, Miss Hale again appeared as a witness, and at that time availed herself of the privileges of the Twelfth Article of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights and refused to answer questions concerning any of her Communist affiliations, or association in other organizations.​

At the time of her second appearance before this Commission she gave her then temporary address at 35 Fayston Street, Dorchester. She testified that 35 Fayston Street, Dorchester, was the home of Daniel Boone Schirmer, but declined to answer whether or not she knew Daniel Boone Schirmer. Mr. Schirmer was formerly the head of the Communist Party in Massachusetts, whose address is now unknown and whom this Commission has been unable to locate. His wife, Peggy Schirmer, is at present maintaining the residence.​

Our investigators have observed Miss Hale during the years 1954 and 1955 as being very active in the Massachusetts Committee for the Bill of Rights, and in that organization co-operating with Nathaniel Mills, Herbert Zimmerman, Ann Burlak, Edith Abber, Frank Collier. Miss Hale is also active in the Progressive Party and in promoting efforts to win amnesty for the Smith Act “victims.”​

We have received creditable evidence that Miss Hale became a member of the Communist Party in New York City in 1938, and that in 1943 she attended the Communist Party training school in New York; that she was an officer of the Communist Party branch at Yorkville, New York; and that she also held office in the Communist Party Artists and Professional Group, New York City. In addition to the activities to which she testified herself in Massachusetts, we have also received creditable evidence that she has been a member of the Boston Freedom of the Press Committee, the Massachusetts Council of Arts and Sciences and Professions, and that she was a member of the Executive Board of the Liberal Citizens of Massachusetts. (Interim Report of the Special Commission on Communism, Subversive Activities, and Related Matters Within the Commonwealth, Commonwealth of Massachusetts: June 1955 pp. 111-113, https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/146783256.pdf)​

 

[bluzman61]

By the way, regarding Ann Hale, whom liberals portray as an innocent victim of paranoid conservatives, let us consider what a what special commission established by the state of Massachusetts said about her. I’m not talking about the local school committee that concluded she was lying and that she deserved to be fired, after some of her friends and neighbors expressed concerns to the school about her views. I’m talking about a special commission set up by one of the most liberal states in the country. Here is what that commission had to say about poor little ole’ Miss Hale:

Miss Ann Hale is a native of Massachusetts. She has a long history of activity within the Communist Party. This fact was established during the course of our investigation by admissions of Miss Hale herself and by our own investigation.​

On March 31, 1954, Miss Hale appeared as a witness before this Commission in Executive Session. At that time she admitted that she had been a member of the Communist Party, that she joined it approximately in 1938 and had continued to be an active member of it until approximately 1951. She said that she never formally resigned from the Party, but just dropped out. She admitted that she had held various offices in branches of the Communist Party, had been chairman, secretary, treasurer, literary distributor of various branches at various times in New York State and in Massachusetts; that she had been a subscriber and had sold the “Daily Worker” and the “Sunday Worker”, had distributed various Marxist texts; had held the office of chairman, and also of literary director of the Harvard Square branch of the Communist Party; had led discussions as chairman of Communist meetings on the doctrines of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin; had been a member of the Rubber branch of the Communist Party in Cambridge; had frequented the headquarters of the Communist Party of Massachusetts when it was in the Little Building in Boston; and had attended classes there on Communist matters. She did not invoke the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution or the Twelfth Article of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights at the Executive Hearing, but she did invoke the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and refused to give the names of any one with whom she was associated in the Communist Party in Massachusetts, or disclose the place of the meetings.​

At the time of her appearance in the Executive Session, she was then a teacher in the second grade in the public schools at Wayland, Mass.​

At a public hearing before this Commission on January 7, 1955, Miss Hale again appeared as a witness, and at that time availed herself of the privileges of the Twelfth Article of the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights and refused to answer questions concerning any of her Communist affiliations, or association in other organizations.​

At the time of her second appearance before this Commission she gave her then temporary address at 35 Fayston Street, Dorchester. She testified that 35 Fayston Street, Dorchester, was the home of Daniel Boone Schirmer, but declined to answer whether or not she knew Daniel Boone Schirmer. Mr. Schirmer was formerly the head of the Communist Party in Massachusetts, whose address is now unknown and whom this Commission has been unable to locate. His wife, Peggy Schirmer, is at present maintaining the residence.​

Our investigators have observed Miss Hale during the years 1954 and 1955 as being very active in the Massachusetts Committee for the Bill of Rights, and in that organization co-operating with Nathaniel Mills, Herbert Zimmerman, Ann Burlak, Edith Abber, Frank Collier. Miss Hale is also active in the Progressive Party and in promoting efforts to win amnesty for the Smith Act “victims.”​

We have received creditable evidence that Miss Hale became a member of the Communist Party in New York City in 1938, and that in 1943 she attended the Communist Party training school in New York; that she was an officer of the Communist Party branch at Yorkville, New York; and that she also held office in the Communist Party Artists and Professional Group, New York City. In addition to the activities to which she testified herself in Massachusetts, we have also received creditable evidence that she has been a member of the Boston Freedom of the Press Committee, the Massachusetts Council of Arts and Sciences and Professions, and that she was a member of the Executive Board of the Liberal Citizens of Massachusetts. (Interim Report of the Special Commission on Communism, Subversive Activities, and Related Matters Within the Commonwealth, Commonwealth of Massachusetts: June 1955 pp. 111-113, https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/146783256.pdf)​

Thanks for the info.

 

[mikegriffith1]

It wasn’t just suspected Communists but suspected homosexuals that had their lives ruined. All on little evidence other than a Jewish name or rumors

Surely you can cite at least one example of this, right? Name one.

Here you go.....
And don’t call me Shirley

Lavender scare - Wikipedia

Umm, I didn't see a single example in your linked article of anyone whom McCarthy falsely accused of being a homosexual and who then had their life ruined because of it. Did you read the article or just skim over it?

Furthermore, the justified and verified fear that homosexuals were vulnerable to blackmail and compromise by foreign security services began long before McCarthy and continued long after him. Heck, when I joined the military and had to apply for a security clearance in 1982, one of the questions on the screening form involved homosexual conduct, and if you answered in the affirmative, you were disqualified from obtaining a clearance.

 

[JoeB131]

By the way, regarding Ann Hale, whom liberals portray as an innocent victim of paranoid conservatives, and whom JoeB131 erroneously identified as a victim of McCarthy's allegedly false charges, let us consider what a what special commission established by the state of Massachusetts said about her. I’m not talking about the local school committee that concluded she was lying and that she deserved to be fired, after some of her friends and neighbors expressed concerns to the school about her views. I’m talking about a special commission set up by one of the most liberal states in the country. Here is what that commission had to say about poor little ole’ Miss Hale:

Uh, guy, when someone starts a riot, they are responsible for anyone who gets hurt. Drunken Joe McCarthy instigated the riot that ruined the life of Ms. Hale.

This is fucking America, dude. People can belong to whatever political party they want.

 

[JoeB131]

Umm, I didn't see a single example in your linked article of anyone whom McCarthy falsely accused of being a homosexual and who then had their life ruined because of it. Did you read the article or just skim over it?

Furthermore, the justified and verified fear that homosexuals were vulnerable to blackmail and compromise by foreign security services began long before McCarthy and continued long after him. Heck, when I joined the military and had to apply for a security clearance in 1982, one of the questions on the screening form involved homosexual conduct, and if you answered in the affirmative, you were disqualified from obtaining a clearance.

So when they asked you about being a Nazi, you just lied on your security clearance form?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When you decide to do serious research on Senator Joseph McCarthy, you soon discover that McCarthy was right in most cases. Far from being the reckless muckraker that most of our history books have long claimed he was, if anything, we now know that McCarthy somewhat understated the severity of Communist penetration into the U.S. government.

When the Venona decrypts were released in 1995, we discovered that they identified at least 349 people who cooperated in various ways with Soviet intelligence agencies. For example, the Venona files reveal that the Senate Civil Liberties Subcommittee, chaired by former Senator Robert LaFollette, whom McCarthy defeated in 1946, had at least four staff members working on behalf of the KGB. John Abt, the Chief Counsel of the Committee; Charles Kramer, who served on three other Congressional Committees; Allen Rosenberg, who also served on the National Labor Relations Board, Board of Economic Warfare (BEW), the Foreign Economic Administration (FEA), and later argued cases before the United States Supreme Court; and Charles Flato, who served on the BEW and FEA, were all members of the Communist Party USA and were associated with the Soviet-run Comintern.

No credible scholar now denies that Soviet agents and sympathizers penetrated into the highest levels of the U.S. government in the 1930s and 1940s, including the White House and the State Department. It has long been known that the Soviets were able to place agents into the top levels of the Manhattan Project, and that one of them, Klaus Fuchs, even attended the first nuke test in New Mexico and then sent a detailed report about it to Joseph Stalin. It has also been known for a long time that FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, Harry Dexter White, was a Soviet spy, and that one of the members of the team that FDR took to Yalta, Alger Hiss, was also a Soviet Spy. In 1944, Hiss became director of the State Department's Office of Special Political Affairs. We have also known for some time now that some American officials in China and/or who worked on China affairs were Communist agents or sympathizers, such as John Stewart Service, Solomon Adler, Owen Lattimore, and Lauchlin Currie--these men played an important role in feeding false information about the state of affairs in China back to Washington.

Time does not allow me to address all the myths and distortions that liberals have spun about Senator McCarthy, so I will deal with one of the main ones, an issue that is hammered on in every anti-McCarthy book and article: the number of names that McCarthy claimed to have of Communist agents and sympathizers/security risks.

Liberals have claimed that McCarthy couldn't even decide how many names he had of Communists and pro-Communists/security risks. Historian James Drummond explains the matter:

Q. Wasn't it reported that McCarthy used the number 205 in his Wheeling speech, lowered it to 57 later, and then raised it again to 81?​

A. Yes, this was reported, and here is the explanation: In the Wheeling speech, McCarthy referred to a letter that Secretary of State James Byrnes sent to Congressman Adolph Sabath in 1946. In that letter, Byrnes said that State Department security investigators had declared 284 persons unfit to hold jobs in the department because of Communist connections and other reasons, but that only 79 had been discharged, leaving 205 still on the State Department's payroll. McCarthy told his Wheeling audience that while he did not have the names of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter, he did have the names of 57 who were either members of or loyal to the Communist Party. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy gave the Senate information about 81 individuals -- the 57 referred to at Wheeling and 24 others of less importance and about whom the evidence was less conclusive.​

The enemies of McCarthy have juggled these numbers around to make the Senator appear to be erratic and to distract attention from the paramount question: Were there still Alger Hisses in the State Department betraying this nation? McCarthy was not being inconsistent in his use of the numbers; the 57 and 81 were part of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter. (The New American - McCarthyism - Forty questions and answers about Senator Joseph McCarthy - May 11, 1987)​

Sources for further study:

M. Stanton Evans' seminal book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies

M. Stanton Evans' Response to Ronald Radosh

Two Defenses of McCarthy by Two 1950s Conservatives

Conservapedia Article on Joseph McCarthy

Summary of Arthur Herman's Book on Joseph McCarthy

40 Questions and Answers About Senator McCarthy

Owen Lattiimore

Solomon Adler

Lauchlin Currie

The Venona Files

​

A lot of innocent lives were ruined by the McCarthy witch hunt.

The difference between then and now is that the government wasn't encouraging communist intervention then as it does now. Can you imagine our President's rage if today's government produced a McCarthy now while he tries so hard to please Vlad?

Name three innocent people ruined by McCarthy

 

[bullwinkle]

When you decide to do serious research on Senator Joseph McCarthy, you soon discover that McCarthy was right in most cases. Far from being the reckless muckraker that most of our history books have long claimed he was, if anything, we now know that McCarthy somewhat understated the severity of Communist penetration into the U.S. government.

When the Venona decrypts were released in 1995, we discovered that they identified at least 349 people who cooperated in various ways with Soviet intelligence agencies. For example, the Venona files reveal that the Senate Civil Liberties Subcommittee, chaired by former Senator Robert LaFollette, whom McCarthy defeated in 1946, had at least four staff members working on behalf of the KGB. John Abt, the Chief Counsel of the Committee; Charles Kramer, who served on three other Congressional Committees; Allen Rosenberg, who also served on the National Labor Relations Board, Board of Economic Warfare (BEW), the Foreign Economic Administration (FEA), and later argued cases before the United States Supreme Court; and Charles Flato, who served on the BEW and FEA, were all members of the Communist Party USA and were associated with the Soviet-run Comintern.

No credible scholar now denies that Soviet agents and sympathizers penetrated into the highest levels of the U.S. government in the 1930s and 1940s, including the White House and the State Department. It has long been known that the Soviets were able to place agents into the top levels of the Manhattan Project, and that one of them, Klaus Fuchs, even attended the first nuke test in New Mexico and then sent a detailed report about it to Joseph Stalin. It has also been known for a long time that FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, Harry Dexter White, was a Soviet spy, and that one of the members of the team that FDR took to Yalta, Alger Hiss, was also a Soviet Spy. In 1944, Hiss became director of the State Department's Office of Special Political Affairs. We have also known for some time now that some American officials in China and/or who worked on China affairs were Communist agents or sympathizers, such as John Stewart Service, Solomon Adler, Owen Lattimore, and Lauchlin Currie--these men played an important role in feeding false information about the state of affairs in China back to Washington.

Time does not allow me to address all the myths and distortions that liberals have spun about Senator McCarthy, so I will deal with one of the main ones, an issue that is hammered on in every anti-McCarthy book and article: the number of names that McCarthy claimed to have of Communist agents and sympathizers/security risks.

Liberals have claimed that McCarthy couldn't even decide how many names he had of Communists and pro-Communists/security risks. Historian James Drummond explains the matter:

Q. Wasn't it reported that McCarthy used the number 205 in his Wheeling speech, lowered it to 57 later, and then raised it again to 81?​

A. Yes, this was reported, and here is the explanation: In the Wheeling speech, McCarthy referred to a letter that Secretary of State James Byrnes sent to Congressman Adolph Sabath in 1946. In that letter, Byrnes said that State Department security investigators had declared 284 persons unfit to hold jobs in the department because of Communist connections and other reasons, but that only 79 had been discharged, leaving 205 still on the State Department's payroll. McCarthy told his Wheeling audience that while he did not have the names of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter, he did have the names of 57 who were either members of or loyal to the Communist Party. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy gave the Senate information about 81 individuals -- the 57 referred to at Wheeling and 24 others of less importance and about whom the evidence was less conclusive.​

The enemies of McCarthy have juggled these numbers around to make the Senator appear to be erratic and to distract attention from the paramount question: Were there still Alger Hisses in the State Department betraying this nation? McCarthy was not being inconsistent in his use of the numbers; the 57 and 81 were part of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter. (The New American - McCarthyism - Forty questions and answers about Senator Joseph McCarthy - May 11, 1987)​

Sources for further study:

M. Stanton Evans' seminal book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies

M. Stanton Evans' Response to Ronald Radosh

Two Defenses of McCarthy by Two 1950s Conservatives

Conservapedia Article on Joseph McCarthy

Summary of Arthur Herman's Book on Joseph McCarthy

40 Questions and Answers About Senator McCarthy

Owen Lattiimore

Solomon Adler

Lauchlin Currie

The Venona Files

​

A lot of innocent lives were ruined by the McCarthy witch hunt.

The difference between then and now is that the government wasn't encouraging communist intervention then as it does now. Can you imagine our President's rage if today's government produced a McCarthy now while he tries so hard to please Vlad?

Name three innocent people ruined by McCarthy

Frank, I only know one family and I will not name them or remind them of those sad days simply to satisfy your lust for Stalinistic power-grabbers. But Dalton Trumbo and Larry Parks are a couple. And as I recall, Gary Cooper played the stooge and named a co-worker or two, then got criticized by the rabid McCarthyites for his role in High noon. They turn on you like sidewinders.

Remembering McCarthy is like deja vu of today's politics. Your admiration of him explains to me why you are so adamant to not see Trump's corruption and vindictiveness. And that is why we are polar opposites about the man...I remember the original...and Roy Cohn too.

Maybe this will help you understand an opposite view like mine: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/edwardrmurrowtomccarthy.htm

 

[mikegriffith1]

By the way, regarding Ann Hale, whom liberals portray as an innocent victim of paranoid conservatives, and whom JoeB131 erroneously identified as a victim of McCarthy's allegedly false charges, let us consider what a what special commission established by the state of Massachusetts said about her. I’m not talking about the local school committee that concluded she was lying and that she deserved to be fired, after some of her friends and neighbors expressed concerns to the school about her views. I’m talking about a special commission set up by one of the most liberal states in the country. Here is what that commission had to say about poor little ole’ Miss Hale:

Uh, guy, when someone starts a riot, they are responsible for anyone who gets hurt. Drunken Joe McCarthy instigated the riot that ruined the life of Ms. Hale.

LOL!!!! Ah! Okay! Uh-huh! What "riot"?! In other words, since you can't name a single person whom McCarthy ruined with false charges, you have to resort to guilt by an alleged indirect association.

What "riot" "ruined the life of Ms. Hale"?! Hey? Even residents of a very liberal state who knew her became concerned enough about her views that they expressed their concerns to the school, and the school committee concluded she was lying and deserved to be fired. Then, a state commission--again, in one of the most liberal states in the Union--investigated her and found plenty of incriminating evidence against her.

This is America, dude. People can belong to whatever political party they want.

Uh, "dude," you have no clue what America is and is not. In America, you are not "free" to join a political party that advocates the overthrow of the U.S. Government and that is financed and controlled by a hostile foreign government. No, you have no "right" to belong to such a party, much less to belong to such a party and also to expect to continue to profit from our economic system. Nope. It doesn't work that way.

 

[bripat9643]

By the way, regarding Ann Hale, whom liberals portray as an innocent victim of paranoid conservatives, and whom JoeB131 erroneously identified as a victim of McCarthy's allegedly false charges, let us consider what a what special commission established by the state of Massachusetts said about her. I’m not talking about the local school committee that concluded she was lying and that she deserved to be fired, after some of her friends and neighbors expressed concerns to the school about her views. I’m talking about a special commission set up by one of the most liberal states in the country. Here is what that commission had to say about poor little ole’ Miss Hale:

Uh, guy, when someone starts a riot, they are responsible for anyone who gets hurt. Drunken Joe McCarthy instigated the riot that ruined the life of Ms. Hale.

LOL!!!! Ah! Okay! Uh-huh! What "riot"?! In other words, since you can't name a single person whom McCarthy ruined with false charges, you have to resort to guilt by an alleged indirect association.

What "riot" "ruined the life of Ms. Hale"?! Hey? Even residents of a very liberal state who knew her became concerned enough about her views that they expressed their concerns to the school, and the school committee concluded she was lying and deserved to be fired. Then, a state commission--again, in one of the most liberal states in the Union--investigated her and found plenty of incriminating evidence against her.

This is America, dude. People can belong to whatever political party they want.

Uh, "dude," you have no clue what America is and is not. In America, you are not "free" to join a political party that advocates the overthrow of the U.S. Government and that is financed and controlled by a hostile foreign government. No, you have no "right" to belong to such a party, much less to belong to such a party and also to expect to continue to profit from our economic system. Nope. It doesn't work that way.

You do have a right to join such political parties, but you don't also have the right to work in sensitive government positions after you do.

 

[bripat9643]

When you decide to do serious research on Senator Joseph McCarthy, you soon discover that McCarthy was right in most cases. Far from being the reckless muckraker that most of our history books have long claimed he was, if anything, we now know that McCarthy somewhat understated the severity of Communist penetration into the U.S. government.

When the Venona decrypts were released in 1995, we discovered that they identified at least 349 people who cooperated in various ways with Soviet intelligence agencies. For example, the Venona files reveal that the Senate Civil Liberties Subcommittee, chaired by former Senator Robert LaFollette, whom McCarthy defeated in 1946, had at least four staff members working on behalf of the KGB. John Abt, the Chief Counsel of the Committee; Charles Kramer, who served on three other Congressional Committees; Allen Rosenberg, who also served on the National Labor Relations Board, Board of Economic Warfare (BEW), the Foreign Economic Administration (FEA), and later argued cases before the United States Supreme Court; and Charles Flato, who served on the BEW and FEA, were all members of the Communist Party USA and were associated with the Soviet-run Comintern.

No credible scholar now denies that Soviet agents and sympathizers penetrated into the highest levels of the U.S. government in the 1930s and 1940s, including the White House and the State Department. It has long been known that the Soviets were able to place agents into the top levels of the Manhattan Project, and that one of them, Klaus Fuchs, even attended the first nuke test in New Mexico and then sent a detailed report about it to Joseph Stalin. It has also been known for a long time that FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, Harry Dexter White, was a Soviet spy, and that one of the members of the team that FDR took to Yalta, Alger Hiss, was also a Soviet Spy. In 1944, Hiss became director of the State Department's Office of Special Political Affairs. We have also known for some time now that some American officials in China and/or who worked on China affairs were Communist agents or sympathizers, such as John Stewart Service, Solomon Adler, Owen Lattimore, and Lauchlin Currie--these men played an important role in feeding false information about the state of affairs in China back to Washington.

Time does not allow me to address all the myths and distortions that liberals have spun about Senator McCarthy, so I will deal with one of the main ones, an issue that is hammered on in every anti-McCarthy book and article: the number of names that McCarthy claimed to have of Communist agents and sympathizers/security risks.

Liberals have claimed that McCarthy couldn't even decide how many names he had of Communists and pro-Communists/security risks. Historian James Drummond explains the matter:

Q. Wasn't it reported that McCarthy used the number 205 in his Wheeling speech, lowered it to 57 later, and then raised it again to 81?​

A. Yes, this was reported, and here is the explanation: In the Wheeling speech, McCarthy referred to a letter that Secretary of State James Byrnes sent to Congressman Adolph Sabath in 1946. In that letter, Byrnes said that State Department security investigators had declared 284 persons unfit to hold jobs in the department because of Communist connections and other reasons, but that only 79 had been discharged, leaving 205 still on the State Department's payroll. McCarthy told his Wheeling audience that while he did not have the names of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter, he did have the names of 57 who were either members of or loyal to the Communist Party. On February 20, 1950, McCarthy gave the Senate information about 81 individuals -- the 57 referred to at Wheeling and 24 others of less importance and about whom the evidence was less conclusive.​

The enemies of McCarthy have juggled these numbers around to make the Senator appear to be erratic and to distract attention from the paramount question: Were there still Alger Hisses in the State Department betraying this nation? McCarthy was not being inconsistent in his use of the numbers; the 57 and 81 were part of the 205 mentioned in the Byrnes letter. (The New American - McCarthyism - Forty questions and answers about Senator Joseph McCarthy - May 11, 1987)​

Sources for further study:

M. Stanton Evans' seminal book Blacklisted By History: The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies

M. Stanton Evans' Response to Ronald Radosh

Two Defenses of McCarthy by Two 1950s Conservatives

Conservapedia Article on Joseph McCarthy

Summary of Arthur Herman's Book on Joseph McCarthy

40 Questions and Answers About Senator McCarthy

Owen Lattiimore

Solomon Adler

Lauchlin Currie

The Venona Files

​

A lot of innocent lives were ruined by the McCarthy witch hunt.

The difference between then and now is that the government wasn't encouraging communist intervention then as it does now. Can you imagine our President's rage if today's government produced a McCarthy now while he tries so hard to please Vlad?

Name three innocent people ruined by McCarthy

Frank, I only know one family and I will not name them or remind them of those sad days simply to satisfy your lust for Stalinistic power-grabbers. But Dalton Trumbo and Larry Parks are a couple. And as I recall, Gary Cooper played the stooge and named a co-worker or two, then got criticized by the rabid McCarthyites for his role in High noon. They turn on you like sidewinders.

Remembering McCarthy is like deja vu of today's politics. Your admiration of him explains to me why you are so adamant to not see Trump's corruption and vindictiveness. And that is why we are polar opposites about the man...I remember the original...and Roy Cohn too.

Maybe this will help you understand an opposite view like mine: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/edwardrmurrowtomccarthy.htm

Dalton Trumbo was subpoenaed by HUAC, not by McCarthy, moron. he joined the communist party in 1943.

Larry Parks was blacklisted by HUAC, not Joseph McCarthy, and he admitted to joining the CPUSA.

So far you're batting 0.000

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Isnt Macarthyism an assault on the first amendment ?

 

[bripat9643]

Isnt Macarthyism an assault on the first amendment ?

Nope. No one has a right to a government job in a sensitive position.