It's High Time The Churches Began To Do The Fair Thing

[California Girl]

Links please to the Catholic Church being the largest charitable organisation.

I agree with regard to comments about taxes, but it bugs me that an organisation like Scientology gets the exemption. Then again, maybe they do charity work....

You may call it childish, but I find the church's stance on priests and nuns pathetic. You may also call it childish, but it was one of the reasons for the reformation and Henry the VIII splitting from the Catholic Church (albeit a minor one, as his libido was the main cause of that little skirmish). It is both unnatural and pathetic to expect humans to be celibate....

There are many things that I - as a Catholic - have an issue with regarding my Church, but, frankly, unless you are Catholic, I fail to see why it is anyone's business. I don't expect you to live according to my standards, and it would be great if you recognized that you don't have the right to expect others to live to yours. Priests and nuns all accept celibacy as part of their calling. It is their business - not mine, not yours. In short, mind you own business about how they choose to live. Simple.

I agree about 'religions' such as Scientology. But, frankly, I'd rather they get tax exempt status than do the untold amounts of damage to society that forcing all churches to pay taxes would do. If the Churches paid taxes, then they would not be able to do the huge amount of support and aid to our most vulnerable. To me, that outweighs any argument for the taxes. God knows (pun intended) that the Churches spend money better than the Government ever could.

As for a link, the only one that I deem legitimate is one that you would dismiss, because it comes from the Church itself.

Oh, and before you hold the Red Cross up as a shining example... it is an unfair comparison - for the Red Cross. Because it pays its employees - frankly, I am stunned that it pays so much in salaries - particular to it's CEO, but that's just me. I like my charities to be voluntary - not paid.

Well it becomes everybody's business when these priests interfere with kids, which an inordinant amount do. I don't honestly think a lot of them are wired to be pedophiles, but being celibate causes them to lose it a little when it comes to sex and they do dispicable things. So, you are wrong. It is other peoples' business in that regard.

I agree with the red cross - bad example on my part. And you are right, I wouldn't believe the Catholic Church's own website, even if it were notorised.

Yeah, I think it would be better to deregister Scientology's tax exempt status than other religous organisations. That aside, I would love to have been in the room when it was decided they were a bona fide religion. I wonder if I start the religion of "Grump" that I can become tax exempt. I write too, and I bet I can come up with something more believable than Thetans jumping into volcanos...

Again, less than 1%. Don't get me wrong - I want each and every pedophile (and, hey, I can even spell the word!) excommunicated from my Church and thrown in prison. ALL of them. But... again, it is less than 1% of priests that are accused. It's an issue - and a hugely important one (certainly to Catholics) but it is disingenuous to present it as ALL priests, or the majority of priest.

Honestly, I was surprised that you gave the Red Cross as an example. I like the charity - I've donated to them.... because they do vital work, but they do use donations to pay staff and that, to me, makes them an irrelevant comparison to the Church.

I'm totally with you re Scientology though. That's not a religion - it's a business... and a load of bullshit. But I am not that well informed about their 'faith' so I am open to changing my view.

 

[Againsheila]

I can speak only for my own Church. The Catholic Church - and we do more charitable work, provide more money, provide more aid, food, shelter, clothing, etc than any other organization on this earth.

I have a friend who is catholic. When my husband was unemployed for 3 years, she told me to call her church for help. My husband was baptised a catholic. Because I was not catholic, they refused to help us. None of the other churches in the community require that you be a member to be helped, or even that you be Christian.

The Catholic church doesn't even make it on the list of places to go for help that we hand out to the homeless and they are not one of the churches that provides a community supper, free lunches or participates in the shelter program in our city.

I accept what you say... I certainly won't call it a lie because I have no reason to believe that you would lie about it. However, the Catholic Church (as an organization) funds massive aid programs across the world. Most of the people they help are not Catholic.

In the US, for example, the Catholic Church is the largest private provider of social services in the country.

Globally, CAFOD (the main Catholic Charity) works in over 40 countries providing a vast amount of support of the world's poorest people.

As part of my own Church (locally), I work with underprivileged families, and none of them are members of my Church. The local Church also helps local Catholics but I have never known anyone to ask what religion someone is in order to qualify for assistance.

My friend was rather upset with her church for what they did, or rather wouldn't do for us.

I can't speak for all Catholic churches, only for the local one. I happen to be involved with a lot of different churches for a lot of different reasons and both the Catholic church and the Mega-church, locally do not help the community the way most of the other churches do and they are the churches with the most money to help.

 

[Avatar4321]

With Jews yes, with Christians - only within the past couple of hundred years....

If by that you mean it's only been a few hundred years since Christians have been actively supporting their scriptures, then you may have a point.

No, I mean when you say freedom OF religion, I assume you are talking about the right to persue your own religion. Up until the past couple of hundred years (and even a lot more recent than that) if you were a heretic, you were in all sorts of trouble. Salem witch trials, medieval Europe, inquisition etc, reformation

Well that's because medieval Europeean Christian didn't have access to the Bible and so didn't understand the Christian viewpoint on the matter.

 

[Avatar4321]

I can speak only for my own Church. The Catholic Church - and we do more charitable work, provide more money, provide more aid, food, shelter, clothing, etc than any other organization on this earth.

yes and have more pedifiles in your organization than any other on this earth
have more art treasures in the vatican than any other organization on this earth .
discriminate against women more than any other organization in this world .

Less than 1% of priests stand accused of being 'pedifiles' (it's spelled pedophiles, fyi). And you have no evidence to support your claim that we have more than any other organization on earth. None. Nada. Zip. It is an opinion, and you are welcome to it - no matter how stupid it is.

Again - because I have already dealt with this once - the Catholic Church does not own those 'art treasures' you refer to. It holds them in trust for the benefit of mankind. Those treasures do not form part of it's 'wealth'. It has rescued, saved, salvaged, collected each and every one so that they are not destroyed or disappear into private collections. It pays for the restoration, it stores them, and maintains them as part of it's commitment to provide a storage for the world's most historic treasures. It does this at substantial cost to the Church and asks nothing in return. It lends those treasures out to museums across the world - for free. It pays shipping and storage and insurance to ensure that those treasures are seen by the people of the world. But it does not own those treasures - it holds them in trust for future generations.

And as for that hysterical claim about discriminating against women. Well, that is just laughable. Seriously. Hysterical hyperbole is not something I bother responding to. Suffice to say.... when the Catholic Church insists that women cover themselves from head to toe, and treats women like Islam does, then you might have a point. But hell will freeze over before that happens.

Idiot.

I'd also be willing to bet that NAMBLA has more.

 

[JohnA]

I can speak only for my own Church. The Catholic Church - and we do more charitable work, provide more money, provide more aid, food, shelter, clothing, etc than any other organization on this earth.

yes and have more pedifiles in your organization than any other on this earth
have more art treasures in the vatican than any other organization on this earth .
discriminate against women more than any other organization in this world .

Less than 1% of priests stand accused of being 'pedifiles' (it's spelled pedophiles, fyi). And you have no evidence to support your claim that we have more than any other organization on earth. None. Nada. Zip. It is an opinion, and you are welcome to it - no matter how stupid it is.

Again - because I have already dealt with this once - the Catholic Church does not own those 'art treasures' you refer to. It holds them in trust for the benefit of mankind. Those treasures do not form part of it's 'wealth'. It has rescued, saved, salvaged, collected each and every one so that they are not destroyed or disappear into private collections. It pays for the restoration, it stores them, and maintains them as part of it's commitment to provide a storage for the world's most historic treasures. It does this at substantial cost to the Church and asks nothing in return. It lends those treasures out to museums across the world - for free. It pays shipping and storage and insurance to ensure that those treasures are seen by the people of the world. But it does not own those treasures - it holds them in trust for future generations.

And as for that hysterical claim about discriminating against women. Well, that is just laughable. Seriously. Hysterical hyperbole is not something I bother responding to. Suffice to say.... when the Catholic Church insists that women cover themselves from head to toe, and treats women like Islam does, then you might have a point. But hell will freeze over before that happens.

Idiot.

so resort to name calling its doesnt validate your point

not so they do discriminate against women
women cannot hold leadership *priests etc* positions in the catholic church even if they are dedicated , knowledgeable and qualified simply cus they are* WOMEN *
the catholic church denies women the right to choose what they do with thier own body
( abortion )

its 1% of priest we know of who are accused of pedophilia cus the hierachy of the church hides the true fiqures from the public .

 

[JohnA]

You don't like the Christian-based United States of America - move your Commie ass to Tehran, asswipe.

Sorry AMERICA IS NOT CHRISTIAN based how ever much you would like it to be
the foundling fathers gave us freedon of religion* get it *

Freedom of religion is a Judeo-Christian principle.

it may of may not be .
but AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED ON A CHRISTIAN BASE that is what the poster is saying .
no peticular religion was the basis of the constitution or any other document ,all our laws are SEGULAR GET OVER IT

 

[MaryL]

OK. Anyone here wonder just how much, for instance, the Vatican made in 2011? Now, the since the Vatican is a separate state how many Euros they pull down each year? I do. This isn’t what religion should be about. How many countries are the head of a major region and are in some murky state financially thru out the world? I can’t think of any ( other than you know who). OK, why isn’t Christianity taxed like BP or Microsoft? They are pushing a product and they are raising a profit. They have a corporate headquarters. It’s like Jesus Inc.

 

[Avatar4321]

Sorry AMERICA IS NOT CHRISTIAN based how ever much you would like it to be
the foundling fathers gave us freedon of religion* get it *

Freedom of religion is a Judeo-Christian principle.

it may of may not be .
but AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED ON A CHRISTIAN BASE that is what the poster is saying .
no peticular religion was the basis of the constitution or any other document ,all our laws are SEGULAR GET OVER IT

You just have to ignore all the Christian principles found in the Constitution. Where exactly do you think the principles came from? It came from European and American thought which Christianity was the foundation to.

 

[Avatar4321]

OK. Anyone here wonder just how much, for instance, the Vatican made in 2011? Now, the since the Vatican is a separate state how many Euros they pull down each year? I do. This isn’t what religion should be about. How many countries are the head of a major region and are in some murky state financially thru out the world? I can’t think of any ( other than you know who). OK, why isn’t Christianity taxed like BP or Microsoft? They are pushing a product and they are raising a profit. They have a corporate headquarters. It’s like Jesus Inc.

You guys on the left have such odd definitions of products, profits, business, and corporations.

 

[California Girl]

OK. Anyone here wonder just how much, for instance, the Vatican made in 2011? Now, the since the Vatican is a separate state how many Euros they pull down each year? I do. This isn’t what religion should be about. How many countries are the head of a major region and are in some murky state financially thru out the world? I can’t think of any ( other than you know who). OK, why isn’t Christianity taxed like BP or Microsoft? They are pushing a product and they are raising a profit. They have a corporate headquarters. It’s like Jesus Inc.

Any idea how many billions of dollars the Catholic Church spends around the world helping the most needy? I do. They build schools, hospitals, pay for doctors, nurses, they pay to ship food, medical supplies, and aid to countries that the rest of the world ignores. They provide comfort, and care to millions of people all over the world.

When Microsoft or BP are doing what the Catholic Church is doing with its wealth, you might have a point. Until then, you are just a pig ignorant twit who clearly lacks the will to investigate the subject before forming an opinion.

 

[strollingbones]

a lot of the 'assets' of the catholic church are land holdings and vast amounts of art....

 

[California Girl]

a lot of the 'assets' of the catholic church are land holdings and vast amounts of art....

I've already explained the whole 'art' thing.... twice.

 

[strollingbones]

o well you didnt expect me to read all this stuff, eh?

 

[strollingbones]

it appalls me when anyone wants to destroy art and as much as campbell hates it..the crosses on the hwys are art and its my understanding that the man doing it....has permission from private land owners......hell i dont believe in that god but if he came here and ask to put the crosses at the top of my land i would say yes....as much as they are religious they are art...as much as they are art they are beacons.....to many they are re assurances....as they travel.....

 

[California Girl]

o well you didnt expect me to read all this stuff, eh?

Well, let me explain it for ya.

Centuries ago, the Catholic Church, realizing that many art treasures were being destroyed through war, greed, etc, decided that it should do something to save these treasures - it's view (the view of the Pope and Cardinals) was that these pieces were so important to the world that they should be preserved and cared for. So they began collecting those works. They built storage facilities, employed people to restore and maintain them and thus began the world's largest collection of antiquities. However, the Church has never claimed ownership of these works. They hold them, in trust, for future generations. They consider it part of the world's history... and that it is the duty of the Church to preserve that history. They loan out many of those treasures - for free - to museums all around the world. They pay the costs of shipment, insurance, provide security and whatever else is needed to ensure this treasures are accessible wherever possible. It asks nothing in return. But many of these priceless antiquities would be lost forever if it had not been for the Church. In the view of the Church, they are providing a service to save the most important pieces of the history not just of one nation, or one continent, but of the entire world. And instead of appreciating that, some ignorant fools, criticize them for it.

 

[strollingbones]

i have a general grasp of history and art history....but thanks....right now i have a general grasp that its 18 degrees and snowing and i have to go to work....i would much prefer to discuss art lol.....

 

[California Girl]

it appalls me when anyone wants to destroy art and as much as campbell hates it..the crosses on the hwys are art and its my understanding that the man doing it....has permission from private land owners......hell i dont believe in that god but if he came here and ask to put the crosses at the top of my land i would say yes....as much as they are religious they are art...as much as they are art they are beacons.....to many they are re assurances....as they travel.....

It seems as thought what should be the most tolerant country in the world is becoming one of the least tolerant.

As an interesting aside to this, last year local Muslims applied for permission for a mosque not far from me. There was a petition going round to stop them - the main issue appeared to be the noise of the 'call to prayer'. I was asked to sign the petition. I told them to come back in a few days so I could consider whether I would sign. In the end I decided that, much as I didn't particularly want to hear their call to prayer, their right to practice their faith outweighs my own personal desire to not here their calls. After all, the Church of England rings it's bells every Sunday morning. As do the Catholics. So I figured the Muslims had the same rights as we do. I didn't sign. We really need to learn to practice what we preach. I support your right to live as you choose. And if that sometimes impacts on me, so be it.

 

[California Girl]

i have a general grasp of history and art history....but thanks....right now i have a general grasp that its 18 degrees and snowing and i have to go to work....i would much prefer to discuss art lol.....

Personally, as a Catholic, it is one of the things that I think the Catholic Church has done for the good of the world. Naturally, people can criticize us for many things.... but this is not one of them.

 

[CaughtInTheMid]

my church, and all the churches in our town, get a lower electrical rate than does everybody else. recently, the town wanted to start charging the churches the same rate. many of the ministers got together and presented their case and our town decided to keep them at a lower rate for now (but i have a feeling that they'll be paying the same rate in the not to distant future).

 

[editec]

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