Israel and Iraq

[jillian]

Isnt it funny how its only palestinians that are sopposed to give up their right to return even though it is international law that refugees have the RIGHT to return.

I guess all the Iraqis who flee Iraq during our invasion arent ALLOWED to return then...they have no right to go back home?

THey aren't refugees. Israel didn't force them out.

Do I get my ancestral property back in Belarus because my family left because of pogroms and Stalin?

I'm still waiting.

 

[GHook93]

There are many similarities between the United States-Iraqi War and the Israeli-Palestinian War that divide the people of the world. Only the United States government financially supports the Israeli government’s brutal actions and policies they have taken against the Palestinian society for the last forty plus years. The United States-Israeli Middle East policies and actions have fueled the fire of the so called Islamic extremist’s hatred of the Western World. What Israeli and the United States government represent to so many Islamic people and families in the region is death and destruction. The State of Israel fighting to control the land and water in her region with the United States fighting to control the region of land with oil.

We are a country that financially supports a lot of countries including the Palestinians. The money we give to the Israelis is primarily used for their large defense needs. Their economy is the best in the Middle East minus Qatar. If they ever had peace, then they wouldn't need our financial support.

It is always the claim that if the Israel-Palestinian conflict was settled or Israel vanished then our problems with the Islamist would vanish. I think that is a pipe dream. Israel-Palestinian conflict is surely part of the problem, but it is not whole problem.

Much of the so called Iraqi intelligence before the United States-British invasion of Iraq emanated from the Israeli government intelligence services.

You have proof to this ignorant claim! I don't you do. Without it your spewing out mindless propaganda.

With many American Jewish Temples flying banner “United we stand with Israel” while they raise billions of dollars to support Israel in her illegal and immoral operations against the Palestinian society.

Tell the Hamastan to stop shooting missiles into Israel. Tell Hamas that you can't negotiate when you have in you bylaws the goal is the destruction and death of the country you are dealing with!

Today many if not the majority of the American people feel betrayed and lied too about the reasons for going to war in Iraq.

Believe what you want to believe, but Iraq and Israel are not tied together. American Jews over-welmingly vote Democratic (which they will this next election also) and Demos are all talking about a pull out.

The same is very true in the Jewish community of people while the Israel government remains united and continues its military campaign against the Palestinian people. Both the United States and Israel have created societies that are not sustainable over the course of time.

Que???

Most of the American people know little to nothing about the Middle East

I think we can lump you into that category

other than what they have learned at their place of worship or what their government and mass media has told them.

Or what the crazy far leftist websites tell them. Many people even believe the extreme nazi websites also. They use these great sources to form their highly biased opinions!

 

[GHook93]

well hey.. Iguess THAT justifies treating pals like shit and rationalizing away theirvalid perception of being marginalized for the sake of a jewish state.

ole andy jackson felt the same way.

good for you.

No it doesn't Israelis had done some pretty bad things to the Palestines and it is unjust for them to not grant the Pals a state. But regardless of the justification of Israel being their, Israel can't grant the Pals a state when they state its their goal to destroy Israel (Hamas's stance and who controls Gaza) and they can't do it with the pretext of allowing the refugees back. That won't be reality.

 

[GHook93]

It sounds like you are making an assumption, a bigoted one at that. We are to assume a particular political ideology and support for a particular nation based on their religious affiliations?

Nice try

I was also not aware that that Jews were "americans", you seem to be discounting the rest of the jews around the globe...or dont they count?

That is because I was addressing AMERICAN JEWS! Nice try their also

 

[doniston]

That dodge wont work. This was a very contrived mass immigration that had a goal of destroying an existing community so they could take what belonged to that community...genocide. It wasnt some sort of immigration where the immigrants came to JOIN the existing community, they came to WIPE THEM OUT and take over.

Well its good you bring up native americans...that is obviously Israels method isnt it? The same sort of genocide because we all know that there arent enough natives left to cause much of a problem and the longer you keep the stolen lands...the more YOURS they become.

I thought we LEARNED from the genocide of the natives, yet here we are helping another nation DO IT AGAIN. The difference IS that there are enough palestinians left and the situation CAN be remedied, unlike the one in the US.

How nice to see your support for displacing an entire nation of people, denying them their rights, supporting apartheid practices and more european expansion into other regions and wiping out the natives to do it

I agree. We are still on the same page.

 

[doniston]

Contrived? What drivel. It was "contrived" because Hitler did a number on European Jewry and Britain and the U.S. wouldn't take in the refugees. But Jews never left Israel (In case you hadn't noticed, we've been there almost 6,000 years).

Natives? The natives left, love... or didn't the grand mufti send them packing?

A little education for you...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

Yep, some jews were there, as there were some all over Europe and the middleeast. They were nomades and lived where they were allowed to. The best that could be said for them is that they had squatter's rights. That didn't give them the right to take over the area.

 

[Shogun]

no noooooo no, dude...

jews get to gather from every corner of the earth and still qualify..

pals don't qualify as pals unless they have a DNA sample from their patronal ancestors dating back to the Ottoman empire.


get it strait.


anything else is pure jew hating anti-semitism.

 

[GHook93]

THey aren't refugees. Israel didn't force them out.

Do I get my ancestral property back in Belarus because my family left because of pogroms and Stalin?

I'm still waiting.

Not too mention the Jews that left or were forced out of the Arab/Gulf countries! Where are the cries for them to be able to return to their lands?

 

[Shogun]

Not too mention the Jews that left or were forced out of the Arab/Gulf countries! Where are the cries for them to be able to return to their lands?

Hey.. at least it's only the JEWS who get to enjoy a brand new nation on the word of a burning bush, eh buddy?

Hell, ATZLAN gets one next, right?

Native Americans?


what... you mean ONLY JEWS qualify? you don't say!

 

[jillian]

Yep, some jews were there, as there were some all over Europe and the middleeast. They were nomades and lived where they were allowed to. The best that could be said for them is that they had squatter's rights. That didn't give them the right to take over the area.

Actually, you have it backwards. It was the "palestinians", who were nomadic squatters.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. I'm not one of these "kill all arabs" people. But I DO resent when people don't realistically assess the situation and resolve it in a way that leaves Israel to Israel and the Territories to the Palestinians.

And before you mention it, no the settlements shouldn't exist. And that would have to be dealt with in any resolution.

But... before it's resolved, Hamas really has to change, as it's goal, the obliteration of Israel. They still want to push the Jews into the sea and have never taken any steps counter to that position.

Israel, however, voluntarily moved back from the territories and disbanded settlements unilaterally. What shows of good faith have the Palestinians made?

 

[Shogun]

Well, thank god someone can admit the settlements are not the righteous perogative of Israel. You might have just lost points at the synegogue for that statement though.


ever consider what might happen if jews used an affirmative action program to INVEST in pals like we did our blacks, Jill? You know, inaction due to unreal prerequisits dont solve anything either. Would it totally blemish everything to try sugar instead of salt?


keep in mind.. bumper stickers that insinuate that pals kill babies while jews protect babies probably doesnt help much.. far be it for me to tell you how racist shit doesnt help. We wouldnt let whitey get away with a similar bumper sticker. yet it's ok when a jew does it. Can you imagine what might happen if pals saw jews take JEWS to task for such bullshit?

 

[doniston]

Actually, you have it backwards. It was the "palestinians", who were nomadic squatters.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter. I'm not one of these "kill all arabs" people. But I DO resent when people don't realistically assess the situation and resolve it in a way that leaves Israel to Israel and the Territories to the Palestinians.

And before you mention it, no the settlements shouldn't exist. And that would have to be dealt with in any resolution.

But... before it's resolved, Hamas really has to change, as it's goal, the obliteration of Israel. They still want to push the Jews into the sea and have never taken any steps counter to that position.

Israel, however, voluntarily moved back from the territories and disbanded settlements unilaterally. What shows of good faith have the Palestinians made?

1. there never was a Nation of Israel except in the political sense-much like the Nation of Islam today. not property, just reteric. However there was a physical Palastine which figure prominently in the Bible, or don't you beleive the historical importance of the Bible?

2. I don't really understad your point in Paragraph 2.

3. Contrary to your opinion, I see nothing wrong with having the settlements, and not desrtoying them. however, they should be multinational instead of strictly Jewish, and should always have been. After all iot is the authorities who are warring, NOT the common peoples. Get rid of the Authorities, and the two faction would be able to live together in peace.

4. Strictly rerteroic and a talking point (threat)

5. OH sure, just like they did in the Gaza--- withdraw, and then in the dead of night sneak back in and create havok. They haven't done enought to gain acculades. Return to the original borders would be a step in the right direction

 

[GHook93]

1. there never was a Nation of Israel except in the political sense-much like the Nation of Islam today. not property, just reteric. However there was a physical Palastine which figure prominently in the Bible, or don't you beleive the historical importance of the Bible?

No true it was well document and many artifacts left behind that Israelites ruled via the Land of Israel and Judah from 1000 - 586 BC. Then in the after Cyrus the Great conquered the Bablayions (sp?) he granted the Jews basically self-rule. Proof of this is the Western Wall which was part of the 2nd Great Temple. Greeks conquered the Persians. Then the Maccabees freed the Jews and there was an independent Israel for 100 years. Then the Romans took over. At first they Jews ruled as under a Jewish client King Herod. They rule was basically nearlt a self-rule until 7 AD, when Rome took greater control. The Jewish revolts followed and THE ROMAN CHANGED THE NAME TO PALESTINIA, well before any Arabs or Muslims were ever on the lands. The Jews also greated a temporary independent Jewish state (3 years) right after the start of the 2nd Jewish revolt. Then after the Persians and the Jews temporary expelled the Byzantines, the Jews established a Jewish state for 5 mores. But once again they were over-run and exciled. Then the Arabs took over during the Arab crusades. Then there came the Turks, then the British.

What you have wrong is there was never a Palestinian country. Never a Palestinian government. The last indigenous (meaning non-foreigner ruler) independent country was by the Jews!

 

[doniston]

No true it was well document and many artifacts left behind that Israelites ruled via the Land of Israel and Judah from 1000 - 586 BC. Then in the after Cyrus the Great conquered the Bablayions (sp?) he granted the Jews basically self-rule. Proof of this is the Western Wall which was part of the 2nd Great Temple. Greeks conquered the Persians. Then the Maccabees freed the Jews and there was an independent Israel for 100 years. Then the Romans took over. At first they Jews ruled as under a Jewish client King Herod. They rule was basically nearlt a self-rule until 7 AD, when Rome took greater control. The Jewish revolts followed and THE ROMAN CHANGED THE NAME TO PALESTINIA, well before any Arabs or Muslims were ever on the lands. The Jews also greated a temporary independent Jewish state (3 years) right after the start of the 2nd Jewish revolt. Then after the Persians and the Jews temporary expelled the Byzantines, the Jews established a Jewish state for 5 mores. But once again they were over-run and exciled. Then the Arabs took over during the Arab crusades. Then there came the Turks, then the British.

What you have wrong is there was never a Palestinian country. Never a Palestinian government. The last indigenous (meaning non-foreigner ruler) independent country was by the Jews!

yes, I have also looked into the ancient herbrew texts to, and it is and always will be revisionist crap. trying to change history. thus you are also wrong.

 

[GHook93]

yes, I have also looked into the ancient herbrew texts to, and it is and always will be revisionist crap. trying to change history. thus you are also wrong.

Look beyond the ancient hebrew texts and look also to the Roman (Italy), Greek, Persian, Middle Eastern Studies, Israel/Palestinian etc. studies and you will see the same think.

 

[Said1]

I don't think I've ever seen so many lies in one post. Well...maybe I have, but certainly up there.

I see you've met The David2000, stealth, posting drone. I see they haven't up-dated the prototype, yet. He was out of commission for awhile, certainly wasn't for re-programming.

 

[jillian]

yes, I have also looked into the ancient herbrew texts to, and it is and always will be revisionist crap. trying to change history. thus you are also wrong.

The ancient texts are "revisionist history" and current propaganda "corects" them?

Does that really make any sense to you?

 

[jillian]

I see you've met The David2000, stealth, posting drone. I see they haven't up-dated the prototype, yet. He was out of commission for awhile, certainly wasn't for re-programming.

Was kinda scary, actually. heh...

i think his wires are crossed.

 

[Said1]

Was kinda scary, actually. heh...

i think his wires are crossed.

Do a google search of his post name. If you dare.

 

[jillian]

Do a google search of his post name. If you dare.

Heh... major techie... I was amused that his website has a welcome in Hebrew. Guess he hates Israel, but he'll take the shekels, eh?