Is the left really against schools hiring students or is the issue Gingrich said it?

[kaz]

You know what, it's just common sense.

When I was a Sergeant in the Army, I got the wonderful end-results of your public education system. Couldnt' do math, couldn't write down a sentence, didn't know basic geography or history. (Like what years WWI were fought and which Germany is our ally during the Cold War.)

"Hey, Private Snuffy, why'd you join the army".

"So I can goes to college, Sergeant B!"

You're beyond hilarious. Nothing ever happened to anybody but you.

Forced busing thanks to liberal dictators sitting on benches happened to a lot of us and it was a disaster.

 

[SAT2]

Lived through it or not, you're projecting. As you can see from snjmom's comment, not everyone had the same take on it. My town was too little to bus anyone. The black kids had been in a two room school for decades, and they just closed it and let the black kids come to the schools they should have been going to all along.

And that was fine. But in a big city like Chicago, they were playing a big shell game with the kids. Meanwhile, of course, the Lipinskis were sending their lilly-white kids to the same Catholic school I went to. I mean, they weren't going to subject their OWN kids to this bullshit!

So what should they have done for the black kids, so that they had an equal opportunity?

Not at all. The whole purpose of Christianity is that Jesus died for your sins. Or more specifically, the sin of Adam. The "Original Sin", which of course, we had to do several sacraments as Catholics to atone ourselves of- Baptism, Communion, Confession, Confirmation. All that bullshit for a sin that they admit was "just a metaphor" or "didn't actually happen that way."

I mean, Jesus, years of swallowing dry-ass wafers because the nuns told us that it was part of Jesus and we couldn't chew Jesus!

Sorry, if you believe we just evolved from a shit-flinging monkey- Jesus, God, Sin, Sacrements, the whole nine yards, just become COMPLETELY unnecessary to the equation.

You are missing the point, and you're as bad on evolution as you are on theology.

 

[SAT2]

You know what, it's just common sense.

When I was a Sergeant in the Army, I got the wonderful end-results of your public education system. Couldnt' do math, couldn't write down a sentence, didn't know basic geography or history. (Like what years WWI were fought and which Germany is our ally during the Cold War.)

"Hey, Private Snuffy, why'd you join the army".

"So I can goes to college, Sergeant B!"

You're beyond hilarious. Nothing ever happened to anybody but you.

Well, all the awesome stuff happens in my life. But I find it hard to believe that I was the only NCO in the army encountering these knobs...

Actually, it seems just the opposite-everything bad happens to you, and every experience of yours is definitive. Facts and the larger world need not intrude.

 

[JoeB131]

So what should they have done for the black kids, so that they had an equal opportunity?

Give them a voucher to go to the school of their choice. Of course, they'll have to do the hard work. If you're a little thug, you go to reform school... which is where you belong.

You are missing the point, and you're as bad on evolution as you are on theology.

Nope. I got the point. And the fact you avoid the topic (kind of like you do when you don't have an argument, usually).

Make it simple for you.

If we evolved from Apes with no help from God, why did Jesus need to die for our sins?

 

[JoeB131]

You're beyond hilarious. Nothing ever happened to anybody but you.

Well, all the awesome stuff happens in my life. But I find it hard to believe that I was the only NCO in the army encountering these knobs...

Actually, it seems just the opposite-everything bad happens to you, and every experience of yours is definitive. Facts and the larger world need not intrude.

Where did I say it was "bad" for me personally. Frankly, it was kind of awesome. My ability to actually read and do math is why I got promoted to E-6 while Pvt. Johnny Foodstamp never made it past E-3.

And I was actually able to use it to pay for college and unlike that guy, didn't flunk out in his first year because he couldn't construct a sentence.

 

[SAT2]

So what should they have done for the black kids, so that they had an equal opportunity?

Give them a voucher to go to the school of their choice. Of course, they'll have to do the hard work. If you're a little thug, you go to reform school... which is where you belong.

Except that wouldn't fix it. Vouchers don't cover all the costs of private education.

Try again.

You are missing the point, and you're as bad on evolution as you are on theology.

Nope. I got the point. And the fact you avoid the topic (kind of like you do when you don't have an argument, usually).

You lying old coot. I have not avoided a single one of your points. You just don't always like the answers.

Make it simple for you.

If we evolved from Apes with no help from God, why did Jesus need to die for our sins?

We didn't evolve from apes. We evolved from lower life forms. I don't know how God did it. Jesus didn't die for our sins. Jesus came to show us how to live, not how to die.

 

[JoeB131]

So what should they have done for the black kids, so that they had an equal opportunity?

Give them a voucher to go to the school of their choice. Of course, they'll have to do the hard work. If you're a little thug, you go to reform school... which is where you belong.

Except that wouldn't fix it. Vouchers don't cover all the costs of private education.

Try again.

Okay. So you write them where they would... not seeing a problem here. If the Catholic schools can educate kids in their magically provided buildings for half the cost of what a Public school kid costs, they should have no problem doing it for a voucher.

(Where did those magic buildings come from again? Oh, never mind.)

Make it simple for you.

If we evolved from Apes with no help from God, why did Jesus need to die for our sins?

We didn't evolve from apes. We evolved from lower life forms. I don't know how God did it. Jesus didn't die for our sins. Jesus came to show us how to live, not how to die.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that's not the position of the bible or most religions.

Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, descendent of David, and he died for our sins. He wasn't just another guy with a cool hippy philosophy. It's in the Bible, man!

 

[SAT2]

Okay. So you write them where they would... not seeing a problem here. If the Catholic schools can educate kids in their magically provided buildings for half the cost of what a Public school kid costs, they should have no problem doing it for a voucher.

(Where did those magic buildings come from again? Oh, never mind.)

The buildings are paid for by the church. Why do you want to make yourself look dumb?

The voucher doesn't cover all the costs of private school. The voucher isn't issued based on the cost of tuition.

Sorry, that's not the position of the bible or most religions.

Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, descendent of David, and he died for our sins. He wasn't just another guy with a cool hippy philosophy. It's in the Bible, man!

Substitutionary atonement isn't a universal doctrine. Nobody said anything about David, or the Virgin birth. And none of that has anything to do with evolution. You have no clue what "most religions" think, you know. Just sayin'.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Wow, you think government is providing "good education?" Wow...

Most of the best students in the world are educated in government schools. In other countries.

Thanks! I wasn't expecting support from you on what a waste our government schools are. But welcome aboard to the dark side...

Good job missing or dodging the point. The point was that government schools are quite capable of being excellent, and in fact are probably the preferable system; that we have government schools some of which do poorly does not lead logically to the conclusion that it's the 'government' part that's the problem.

 

[kaz]

Most of the best students in the world are educated in government schools. In other countries.

Thanks! I wasn't expecting support from you on what a waste our government schools are. But welcome aboard to the dark side...

Good job missing or dodging the point. The point was that government schools are quite capable of being excellent, and in fact are probably the preferable system; that we have government schools some of which do poorly does not lead logically to the conclusion that it's the 'government' part that's the problem.

I missed the point? You're the one who doesn't get sarcasm. You also missed the point that OUR schools are failing. I won't throw you any curves because you miss on those. What's your explanation for why our government schools blow and our students overall perform poorly in test scores against other government schools that spend far less per student. And don't tell me your solution is to throw money at it, that's clearly...not...the problem.

 

[Sallow]

Thanks! I wasn't expecting support from you on what a waste our government schools are. But welcome aboard to the dark side...

Good job missing or dodging the point. The point was that government schools are quite capable of being excellent, and in fact are probably the preferable system; that we have government schools some of which do poorly does not lead logically to the conclusion that it's the 'government' part that's the problem.

I missed the point? You're the one who doesn't get sarcasm. You also missed the point that OUR schools are failing. I won't throw you any curves because you miss on those. What's your explanation for why our government schools blow and our students overall perform poorly in test scores against other government schools that spend far less per student. And don't tell me your solution is to throw money at it, that's clearly...not...the problem.

That's a pretty broad condemnation with little or nothing to back it up. Public education in this country has to deal with a good many things some other places does not have to face, like a pretty diverse ethnic pool. Additionally, not all schools are equal, meaning funding varies from district to district. And typically schools in upper class areas...receive more funding and better talent.

 

[kaz]

Good job missing or dodging the point. The point was that government schools are quite capable of being excellent, and in fact are probably the preferable system; that we have government schools some of which do poorly does not lead logically to the conclusion that it's the 'government' part that's the problem.

I missed the point? You're the one who doesn't get sarcasm. You also missed the point that OUR schools are failing. I won't throw you any curves because you miss on those. What's your explanation for why our government schools blow and our students overall perform poorly in test scores against other government schools that spend far less per student. And don't tell me your solution is to throw money at it, that's clearly...not...the problem.

That's a pretty broad condemnation with little or nothing to back it up

Other then test scores...

Public education in this country has to deal with a good many things some other places does not have to face, like a pretty diverse ethnic pool

Hmmm...I thought liberals always said that made us stronger. I actually don't see what it has to do with it.

Additionally, not all schools are equal, meaning funding varies from district to district. And typically schools in upper class areas...receive more funding and better talent.

Yes, back to class warfare. Not sure what you're basing that other countries don't deal with this.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay. So you write them where they would... not seeing a problem here. If the Catholic schools can educate kids in their magically provided buildings for half the cost of what a Public school kid costs, they should have no problem doing it for a voucher.

(Where did those magic buildings come from again? Oh, never mind.)

The buildings are paid for by the church. Why do you want to make yourself look dumb?

The voucher doesn't cover all the costs of private school. The voucher isn't issued based on the cost of tuition.

Guy, you keep saying that, but you just sound like an idiot. Besides the fact that the cost of buildings is MINIMAL as a percentage of budget, they are paid for by tuition, not "the church".

Sorry, that's not the position of the bible or most religions.

Jesus was the son of God, born of a virgin, descendent of David, and he died for our sins. He wasn't just another guy with a cool hippy philosophy. It's in the Bible, man!

Substitutionary atonement isn't a universal doctrine. Nobody said anything about David, or the Virgin birth. And none of that has anything to do with evolution. You have no clue what "most religions" think, you know. Just sayin'.

I should have clarified "most Christian religions". But sorry, Jesus' bonafides are all the divine bullstuff in the bible. It's why the bible goes on and on about all his wonderful miracles.

All of which becomes irrelevent if we evolved from apes.

 

[SAT2]

Guy, you keep saying that, but you just sound like an idiot. Besides the fact that the cost of buildings is MINIMAL as a percentage of budget, they are paid for by tuition, not "the church".

Please back this up.

I should have clarified "most Christian religions". But sorry, Jesus' bonafides are all the divine bullstuff in the bible. It's why the bible goes on and on about all his wonderful miracles.

All of which becomes irrelevent if we evolved from apes.

Actually, the teaching takes up far more of the Gospel than the miracles.

No one has ever said that we evolved from apes.

The Catholic Church's position is that evolution and Christianity are compatible. Aren't you just taking up for the fundamentalists because you like how they vote?

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, you keep saying that, but you just sound like an idiot. Besides the fact that the cost of buildings is MINIMAL as a percentage of budget, they are paid for by tuition, not "the church".

Please back this up.

I should have clarified "most Christian religions". But sorry, Jesus' bonafides are all the divine bullstuff in the bible. It's why the bible goes on and on about all his wonderful miracles.

All of which becomes irrelevent if we evolved from apes.

Actually, the teaching takes up far more of the Gospel than the miracles.

No one has ever said that we evolved from apes.

The Catholic Church's position is that evolution and Christianity are compatible. Aren't you just taking up for the fundamentalists because you like how they vote?

I'm taking up for the Fundies because, frankly, I don't like the government's attitude.

It's kind of the same attitude that gives you condom distribution, busing and every other attempt at political agendas under the guise of education. We know better how to raise your kids than you do. You'd better do it the way we tell you, and keep forking over that money to pay for our pensions.

The sooner we get Government out of the education business, the better.

 

[SAT2]

Kaz, show us the test scores that you're talking about. Thanks.

'm taking up for the Fundies because, frankly, I don't like the government's attitude.

It's kind of the same attitude that gives you condom distribution, busing and every other attempt at political agendas under the guise of education. We know better how to raise your kids than you do. You'd better do it the way we tell you, and keep forking over that money to pay for our pensions.

The sooner we get Government out of the education business, the better.

Public education is the only thing that gives most citizens any chance at upward mobility. Sorry that we want a pension like other professionals and skilled workers.

Again, please show us that the Catholic Church doesn't provide any kind of subsidy to their schools, in the form of free or reduced rent.

Do the same for other religious schools.

Because in these parts, the churches build the buildings, and it's ONE of the cost savings that private schools have over public schools.

Thanks in advance for the information to back up your claim.