Is LeBron James the GOAT?

[IM2]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

 

[IM2]

And when we talk about athletes we are leaving out hockey players. I can't skate worth a damn, but these guys are doing so full speed, change directions consistently and they are doing it on ice skates. One of the greatest moves I've seen in any sport was a goal by Gretzky where he made a spin move while skating with the puck, stopped on a dime then shot the puck in for a goal. Now if that's not great athleticism, there is no such thing.

 

[Rocko]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

Steroids has nothing to do with the ability to make contact, but they have everything to do with making you hit the ball further when you do make contact

 

[Mac1958]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

Steroids has nothing to do with the ability to make contact, but they have everything to do with making you hit the ball further when you do make contact

Yep. Bat speed.
.

 

[sealybobo]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

They may have even juiced up the balls so they went farther. They did it to get people watching. People loved Sosa McGuire

Shady era just like the championships in the nba during the Tim Donaghy era

 

[sealybobo]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

You know how cons call him Barry? It was a joke I thought you’d get

 

[sealybobo]

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

Steroids has nothing to do with the ability to make contact, but they have everything to do with making you hit the ball further when you do make contact

Yep. Bat speed.
.

Well who had the best batting average during that era? He’s the best whoever he is. Ken Griffey jr? He didn’t take steroids.

And have you guys ever taken steroids? What kind? Some can help with bat speed, intensity, focus, etc...

 

[IM2]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

If King James had to play against Sir Charles, well the King would have fell on his crown...

King James might be great today but Jordan, damn he was something to see and I hated him!

Different type of player, era and so much more...

It is like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds while forgetting Ruth pitched a few years before becoming the slugger we all remember...

Barry was maybe the best but Ruth was third. Let's not forget Hank Aaron.

Obama was the best?

What about ken Griffey jr?

I have a lot of bonds rookie cards. Hopefully one day he is forgiven for taking steroids. They’ll be worth more.

I could have got $500 each for my Mark McGuire cards. Now they aren’t worth shit

What does Obama have to do with this?

IMO Bonds was better than Griffey. Both were great.

I played baseball for 13 years growing up. You have to be able to hit the ball, steroids don't help that. So for a man to hit 762 home runs, that's hall of fame with no argument. McGwire hall of fame no argument. Steroids had nothing to do with thie ability to make contact with a baseball.

Steroids has nothing to do with the ability to make contact, but they have everything to do with making you hit the ball further when you do make contact

But you have to hit the ball first and pitchers were using PEDS during that time also.

I think that when you grow up as Barry Bonds the son of a man who was a great baseball player and you get taught baseball by him, Willie Mays, Willie McCovey and the like, you are going to hit a lot of home runs no matter what. The same for Griffey Jr. He was taught baseball by his father and more of the games greats.

 

[Jarlaxle]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

On a competitive level Jordan is far superior to Lebron. Lebron was on a superior team in the Miami Heat. And for 3 years in Cleveland he had 2 other all stars with him. As for baseball, don't forget Griffey Jr.

Ted Williams.[/thread]

 

[Jarlaxle]

The NBA refereeing is so bastardized that it is hard to say. It used to be about the game. Now it's about entertainment. I wonder how Gervin, English, Russell, Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson would fare today if they had the lackadaisical rules that the superstars benefit from today.

I figure most of the games are rigged.

 

[IM2]

LeBron is the greatest basketball player who ever lived. This is not a statistical observation, but a competitive one. No one else has ever taken more mediocre teams - personally - to the heights that LeBron has. MJ won championships with excellent teams, where he was the one player who took them "over the top." But LeBron CARRIES his teams, most of which have been barely playoff-level teams without him.

Tiger is the best golfer who ever lived, regardless of the number of "majors" he collects through the end of his career. No other golfer has dominated the way he did. Tiger's most important and noteworthy "statistic" is the number of tournaments he won after leading on Sunday morning. The answer is, basically, every one (there were a few fluke-ish exceptions). Every other top golfer goes into a fetal position when they bring a lead into Sunday. If they win/won a tournament, it was with a 72 or 73 on the final day, with the other players simply not able to catch up. Tiger played better on Sunday than he did from Thursday through Saturday, and by definition, that means he played best when the win was on the line. No question about it.

As for baseball players, there are too many variables to make a definitive case, but by any measures, Babe Ruth, Barry Bonds, Lou Gehrig, and Henry Aaron have to be considered.

For pure skills, I think today's players are quite a bit better than those who came before. Mike Trout would have been HOF in any era.

On a competitive level Jordan is far superior to Lebron. Lebron was on a superior team in the Miami Heat. And for 3 years in Cleveland he had 2 other all stars with him. As for baseball, don't forget Griffey Jr.

Ted Williams.[/thread]

Ted Williams was a great hitter but I don't quite think his all around game was as good.. Trout will be a HOF player. Bonds and Griffey would have been HOF in any era also.

Jordan was the best BB player of all time based on stats and competition. James was on a super team in Miami, he had Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen, 3 hall of famers. He had 2 all stars with him until this last year in Cleveland. He's carried a team exactly one year. And he carried this years team because he ran everybody else out. Jordan played when you could hand check and it was much more physical and still averaged 30 points a game for his career. James maybe has one season in a less physical game were he barely averaged 30 points. Had Jordan played now, with the lack of contact, he'd average 50 points a game. We're caught up in the moment, but James is not the GOAT.

 

[candycorn]

The NBA refereeing is so bastardized that it is hard to say. It used to be about the game. Now it's about entertainment. I wonder how Gervin, English, Russell, Chamberlain, and Oscar Robertson would fare today if they had the lackadaisical rules that the superstars benefit from today.

I figure most of the games are rigged.

Sometimes I do and sometimes I do not. One would think that the reason for any such “fixing” would be to increase revenues…. Two smaller market teams making the finals in consecutive years is a counterfactual to be sure. However…if you buy into the “superstars make the game” coupled with a “rising tide lifts all boats”, allowing LeBron to get a few extra steps or (dating myself) giving Olajuwon an extra step on his turnaround jumper you get bigger crowd sizes where ever they go and increase revenues for the owners. This could be easily controlled by the league.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Read Personal Foul.

 

[candycorn]

No one older than bird and Johnson. Who’ve I missed?

Reggie Miller

Points 25,279 (18.2 ppg)
3-Pointers 2,560 (2nd all-time)
Assists 4,141 (3.0 apg)

Would you rather have Durant or bird?

A few years ago...I think I would have said no contest. But I think the question has merit now.

 

[evenflow1969]

We measure greatness by number of world championships. Nicklaus is better than Woods even though Woods has many more tour wins than Nicklaus. Brady is the best because he has the most rings. Jordan is still the best because he has most rings.

If you've won more golf tournaments there is no argument. Woods is better than Nicklaus. But I like them both. There is no official world championship golf tournament.

By that logic then Sam Snead is the greatest since he has the most all time tournament wins. He has no where near the number of majors that Woods and Nicklaus have. In golf it's all about the 4 majors.

I know that but I've seen Nicklaus and Woods play in their primes. Woods is better IMO. And he's not done quite yet, I don't think. I think they really need a world championship tournament of golf.

I've watched Tiger since he played with the pros at age 16 on an invite. And I watched Jack, Tom, Lee, Gary and Nick in their primes. I agree in terms of pure talent there has never been anyone like Tiger. But he unfortunately messed up his personal life and his body to such a degree that he robbed himself of the chance to break Nicklaus' 18 majors record. I hope his body holds up long enough for him to win again.

One thing people do not take into account when comparing Nicklaus and Tiger is that Tiger had cavity backed Irons and Oversized drivers that Nicklaus did not!

 

[evenflow1969]

I think that if they train 5 days a week to do that, they are very capable of doing so. You try sprinting the 8-9 miles they do per game. These men are in tremendous shape. And I think that if they were SEALS they could do what the seals do with the same training. You see junior, the body will do what it's rained to do. Those seals did not show up on their first day able to do the shit you talk about. Apparently you know nothing about training and the difference between sports and war. Those SEALS are soldiers, not athletes, and they are not preparing for a game, they are preparing to try surviving in a war. Those NBA players can be trained to do the same thing. And one thing is for certain, that when they show up for basic they'll be in better shape initially than the others trying to be SEALS and it will take them less time to be in good enough shape to fight than the average SEAL.

I was at An Khe when you were 6 years old, shitbag. You know nothing about soldiers, sports, life, or anything else...you just run your mouff on a message board. I was ten times the athlete you ever were but barely got on the Recon team I went for. That's the difference...what we did wasn't a game and coming in second was coming home dead. I've scraped better than you off the bottom of my boot, punk.

You and sunnifuck are the biggest dumb fucks on the entire site.

 

[DGS49]

The "best" basketball player of all time is a matter of debate. The "greatest" player was Wilt Chamberlain - no question. Unstoppable offensively, greatest rebounder of all time, overwhelming defensively (teams had to adjust their offense, entirely due to his presence). Never fouled out of a game. Never.

Couldn't dribble very well. Couldn't shoot foul shots.

Russell? If he had played anywhere but for Auerbach, nobody would even remember his name.

 

[PK1]

I've always been a Jordan guy, the Greatest of All Time, but not any more.

I don't think the sport has seen anything like LeBron James, and I'm not sure ANY sport has.

You usually see career records and career milestones passed as an athlete is winding down his career. Not this guy. He's still absolutely DOMINANT.

The closest team athlete I can think of is Jim Brown.

Thoughts?
.

Indeed, Lebron is amazing, and i’d give him my vote for MVP of all NBA time, ahead of Michael.

 

[Papageorgio]

I’m still thinking Jordan is, but Lebron has a couple more years left.

 

[Liberty777]

Lebron is the greatest point guard of all time, but I just feel he lacks that “dog” mentality to be compared to Jordan.