Zone1 Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists?

[Cougarbear]

Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists? I get comments all the time that we should not have faith in an invisible God. Or, prove to us that your invisible God exists. Even though we state that it's up to God to decide to appear to any of us and thus we cannot just make God not invisible. So, is it possible that the concept of invisibility really does exist and can be done by mankind too?
I've been reading up on these things. Gregory J. Gbur wrote a book, "Invisibility: The History and Science of How Not to Be Seen" that suggests invisibility is possible and to some extent has been accomplished. However, we are at the beginnings of understanding this and also the science behind it. The concept of "Cloaking" has been around for decades and brought more to our attention through science fiction like Star Trek. Is it too much for atheists and those scientists that demand God to make Himself visible before we believe in him. Given time, we will have that knowledge to Cloak. And, what if in the 25th Century, we can cloak others minds to keep from seeing things around them? Certainly these things are beyond our capability now, but why not in 400 or 800 years from now? Something God can already do to us by having a "veil" placed over our minds so that we cannot see Him or the things of Heaven unless He wants us to. Thoughts of oh ye of little faith?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists? I get comments all the time that we should not have faith in an invisible God. Or, prove to us that your invisible God exists. Even though we state that it's up to God to decide to appear to any of us and thus we cannot just make God not invisible. So, is it possible that the concept of invisibility really does exist and can be done by mankind too?
I've been reading up on these things. Gregory J. Gbur wrote a book, "Invisibility: The History and Science of How Not to Be Seen" that suggests invisibility is possible and to some extent has been accomplished. However, we are at the beginnings of understanding this and also the science behind it. The concept of "Cloaking" has been around for decades and brought more to our attention through science fiction like Star Trek. Is it too much for atheists and those scientists that demand God to make Himself visible before we believe in him. Given time, we will have that knowledge to Cloak. And, what if in the 25th Century, we can cloak others minds to keep from seeing things around them? Certainly these things are beyond our capability now, but why not in 400 or 800 years from now? Something God can already do to us by having a "veil" placed over our minds so that we cannot see Him or the things of Heaven unless He wants us to. Thoughts of oh ye of little faith?

People have had NDE, seen spirits walking the earth, had intense dreams that seem beyond our world. It is Faith, impossible to prove unless God visited us and convinced us, even then there would be countless doubters.

 

[White 6]

Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists? I get comments all the time that we should not have faith in an invisible God. Or, prove to us that your invisible God exists. Even though we state that it's up to God to decide to appear to any of us and thus we cannot just make God not invisible. So, is it possible that the concept of invisibility really does exist and can be done by mankind too?
I've been reading up on these things. Gregory J. Gbur wrote a book, "Invisibility: The History and Science of How Not to Be Seen" that suggests invisibility is possible and to some extent has been accomplished. However, we are at the beginnings of understanding this and also the science behind it. The concept of "Cloaking" has been around for decades and brought more to our attention through science fiction like Star Trek. Is it too much for atheists and those scientists that demand God to make Himself visible before we believe in him. Given time, we will have that knowledge to Cloak. And, what if in the 25th Century, we can cloak others minds to keep from seeing things around them? Certainly these things are beyond our capability now, but why not in 400 or 800 years from now? Something God can already do to us by having a "veil" placed over our minds so that we cannot see Him or the things of Heaven unless He wants us to. Thoughts of oh ye of little faith?

For some people, YES. It will always be this way, just as it has always been this way. For those God has touch, well, it is what it is and there simply is no denying and there will be no convincing them otherwise, either.

 

[1srelluc]

God would have preferred paragraphs.

 

[Cougarbear]

People have had NDE, seen spirits wakking the earth, had intense dreams that seem beyond our world. It is Faith, impossible to prove unless God visited us and convincd us, even then there would be countless doubters.

So true! It's God that decides what we are to see or simply live by faith and works alone.

 

[Cougarbear]

For some people, YES. It will always be this way, just as it has always been this way. For those God has touch, well, it is what it is and there simply is no denying and there will be no convincing them otherwise, either.

Well, Judas know for sure and yet didn't understand what he was seeing. It's like Satan cloaked his brain. But, you would think that if science is slowly moving towards creating invisibility that their pat answer of "believing in an invisible god" would cease.

 

[White 6]

Well, Judas know for sure and yet didn't understand what he was seeing. It's like Satan cloaked his brain. But, you would think that if science is slowly moving towards creating invisibility that their pat answer of "believing in an invisible god" would cease.

Nope. I can live with them not believing easily enough, and they are stuck with me believing. I am not called to proselytize and change the non-believers. If that changes, I am sure God will let me know, and it will be impossible to ignore.

 

[alang1216]

Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists? I get comments all the time that we should not have faith in an invisible God. Or, prove to us that your invisible God exists. Even though we state that it's up to God to decide to appear to any of us and thus we cannot just make God not invisible. So, is it possible that the concept of invisibility really does exist and can be done by mankind too?
I've been reading up on these things. Gregory J. Gbur wrote a book, "Invisibility: The History and Science of How Not to Be Seen" that suggests invisibility is possible and to some extent has been accomplished. However, we are at the beginnings of understanding this and also the science behind it. The concept of "Cloaking" has been around for decades and brought more to our attention through science fiction like Star Trek. Is it too much for atheists and those scientists that demand God to make Himself visible before we believe in him. Given time, we will have that knowledge to Cloak. And, what if in the 25th Century, we can cloak others minds to keep from seeing things around them? Certainly these things are beyond our capability now, but why not in 400 or 800 years from now? Something God can already do to us by having a "veil" placed over our minds so that we cannot see Him or the things of Heaven unless He wants us to. Thoughts of oh ye of little faith?

Faith does not come from logic, evidence, or experience. You just have it or you don't.

 

[Cougarbear]

Nope. I can live with them not believing easily enough, and they are stuck with me believing. I am not called to proselytize and change the non-believers. If that changes, I am sure God will let me know, and it will be impossible to ignore.

What does it take to be called to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What religion or church do you profess to belong to?

 

[Cougarbear]

Faith does not come from logic, evidence, or experience. You just have it or you don't.

Oh, experience plays a large role in faith in God. If you have no hope, you have no knowledge of the things that are unseen that you say you have faith in. Of course, this isn't the question I have. If it takes someone like Doubting Thomas wo believe and really have faith and work in the Lord, then to many, they have to see God. Again, not everyone will still believe. But, for those that use the faulty logic and reasoning that they need empirical evidence, cloaking and other ways to make things visible, invisible should keep them quite about this from now on. It is possible for God to remain invisisble to most.

 

[White 6]

What does it take to be called to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What religion or church do you profess to belong to?

Raised Methodist attended and baptized Southern Baptist, graduate of Union University. Plenty of both are, but I have a relationship with God, not necessarily as close with the church. If it make you feel better, I am sure it is not intended that I interfere with your proselytizing, though I did not let it interfere with company time, or business from a managerial or supervisory standpoint, back in the day.

 

[Cougarbear]

Raised Methodist attended and baptized Southern Baptist, graduate of Union University. Plenty of both are, but I have a relationship with God, not necessarily as close with the church. If it make you feel better, I am sure it is not intended that I interfere with your proselytizing, though I did not let it interfere with company time, or business from a managerial or supervisory standpoint, back in the day.

At the age of 10 years old, I was Jewish. My family and I were on a trip and were currently in a motel in Wyoming. This was in 1963 when on Sunday mornings back there, the only things on TV was religious broadcasting. My brother had turned on the TV. I stopped and listened and looked as a preacher was talking about Jesus Christ. I felt what I later understood, the Holy Ghost, telling me that when He said, Jesus Christ is the Savior and Son of God, I knew it. Then my mother told us to turn that crap off. A few years later, a neighbor of mine's dad was the minister at a local Southern Baptist church. My friend and I would jam together. He played guitar and wrote some songs. He was 13 at the time. I was 16 and played drums. His dad asked him to bring me to church one Sunday and play one of his songs. Also to change the words with Christian words from hard rock words. So, we showed up. I didn't know he had an argument with his dad. So, we played a different song than planned. His dad wasn't happy. After we played, we sat in the back. He went through his sermon and at the end, called for people to come up and receive Christ. For the second time, I felt the promptings of the Holy Ghost. I wanted to go up, but just didn't have the balls to do it. At the age of 19, I had a monumental account of the Holy Ghost, the Father and Son when a good friend attempted suicide. I won't go through it all but after getting her to the hospital, I asked God (Father) if he had a Son, Jesus Christ, please save my friend. She had downed enough barbs and alcohol to have killed 3 elephants as the doctor said. But, somehow, she survived. I knew then, Jesus was Lord and Savior. It took me 5 more years before I got the courage to be baptized by the Father, Son and Holy Ghost by one with authority in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Now, the friend whose dad was the Southern Baptist minister had moved away a year after that happened to Canada. After I was baptized, he came for a visit and said that he had heard the great news about me accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I told him that his dad had an impact on my decision and he could share that with him.

There are few real missionary churches like the LDS have. But, as we teach our members every Sunday, "Every member is a missionary." How we live our lives. How we help our fellow neighbors. How we treat our wives and families and so on are ways to spread the Gospel to those who are lacking in faith. Even a a Southern Baptist.

 

[Meriweather]

Faith does not come from logic, evidence, or experience. You just have it or you don't.

Faith is simply a decision to try something to see if it works. For example, as a kid it took faith form me to let go of the side of the pool and trust I could learn to swim.

The problem many may have with faith when it comes to God/Scripture is thinking one must take an all or nothing approach. I recommend taking it very slowly, and bit by bit. For example, how does putting God first work out in your own life? How does not stealing, not lying, not coveting, and being true to a spouse?

The Bible contains many life lessons. The Old Testament recommends in following God's law, one learns to love the law, and then in turn love God. The New Testament recommends if one starts by loving God, one comes to love His laws.

 

[alang1216]

Faith is simply a decision to try something to see if it works. For example, as a kid it took faith form me to let go of the side of the pool and trust I could learn to swim.

The problem many may have with faith when it comes to God/Scripture is thinking one must take an all or nothing approach. I recommend taking it very slowly, and bit by bit. For example, how does putting God first work out in your own life? How does not stealing, not lying, not coveting, and being true to a spouse?

The Bible contains many life lessons. The Old Testament recommends in following God's law, one learns to love the law, and then in turn love God. The New Testament recommends if one starts by loving God, one comes to love His laws.

To me, faith is believing in something you can't prove, you must just accept. Usually that something comes from family and community which explains why conversion from one religion to another is rare.

 

[Woodznutz]

Though not outright proof the creation itself is pretty strong evidence.

 

[Votto]

Is current scientific empirical evidence required to have faith that God exists? I get comments all the time that we should not have faith in an invisible God. Or, prove to us that your invisible God exists. Even though we state that it's up to God to decide to appear to any of us and thus we cannot just make God not invisible. So, is it possible that the concept of invisibility really does exist and can be done by mankind too?
I've been reading up on these things. Gregory J. Gbur wrote a book, "Invisibility: The History and Science of How Not to Be Seen" that suggests invisibility is possible and to some extent has been accomplished. However, we are at the beginnings of understanding this and also the science behind it. The concept of "Cloaking" has been around for decades and brought more to our attention through science fiction like Star Trek. Is it too much for atheists and those scientists that demand God to make Himself visible before we believe in him. Given time, we will have that knowledge to Cloak. And, what if in the 25th Century, we can cloak others minds to keep from seeing things around them? Certainly these things are beyond our capability now, but why not in 400 or 800 years from now? Something God can already do to us by having a "veil" placed over our minds so that we cannot see Him or the things of Heaven unless He wants us to. Thoughts of oh ye of little faith?

I heard a man of faith say once that vision effects emotions but hearing effects the intellect.

Optical illusions are numerous, but hearing evokes understanding and wisdom.

There is a reason that God spoke things into existence during creation, and why his followers are forbidden to make any visual likeness of him.

What you see all around you is in a constant state of change, changing from one second to another, but it does not seem that way, does it. In short, what you see is really just an optical illusion, as where hearing about it puts it back into reality.

Food for thought.

 

[Meriweather]

To me, faith is believing in something you can't prove, you must just accept. Usually that something comes from family and community which explains why conversion from one religion to another is rare.

I wonder if that is the difference between levels of faith: Strong faith, weak faith, no faith. What came from my family was everything from atheism to Catholicism, to non-Catholic Christianity, to Buddhism. What I also saw was how differently people of the same belief system perceived God and scripture. I remember at a young age (and I can't remember from whom) the phrase, "faith through reasoning." I remember not being quite clear on what 'reasoning' was, but it made an impact because I decided it meant one must have a reason to have faith in something, or for that matter, to not have faith in something.

You started me thinking....Do I have a strong faith, or do I have strong reasons for the faith I have?

 

[Cougarbear]

I heard a man of faith say once that vision effects emotions but hearing effects the intellect.

Optical illusions are numerous, but hearing evokes understanding and wisdom.

There is a reason that God spoke things into existence during creation, and why his followers are forbidden to make any visual likeness of him.

What you see all around you is in a constant state of change, changing from one second to another, but it does not seem that way, does it. In short, what you see is really just an optical illusion, as where hearing about it puts it back into reality.

Food for thought.

Well, I know that when I hear certain chords and riffs in music, whether it be classical, country or hard rock, music invokes emotional responses better than vision does. Although, when I see grandeur in nature like coming around the corner and seeing Yosemite Valley as an example, that invokes emotions. Seeing pictures of family both past and present invokes emotion. I do understand that illusions exist including spiritual counterfeits or illusions. When we study learning, visual is predominately the way most learn. Many studies find that about 65% are visual learners, 30% are audio learners and 5% are kinesthetic learners. It's the kinesthetic learners that need to feel something to learn from. Most people are a hybrid of this and can be all three in some cases. But, one is usually predominate. Here are a couple of scriptures:

Isaiah 30:8 - 10, "¶ Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

This pretty much covers how people can be deceived by vision, hearing and feeling. Chapter 29 is very interesting. Id speaks about a book that will have great understanding and wisdom for humanity because the true meaning and understanding was lost in a great apostacy at some point to the end of time, the last or latter days. But, most of those who claim to be intelligent, wise and with boastful pride will not understand the words they read and hear in their minds and hearts.

 

[alang1216]

You started me thinking....Do I have a strong faith, or do I have strong reasons for the faith I have?

I think many people have their faith strengthened by non-religious forces. Attending church and feeling part of that community would, I would guess, be a major plus and a reinforcement of faith. Just spitballing of course.

 

[Meriweather]

I think many people have their faith strengthened by non-religious forces. Attending church and feeling part of that community would, I would guess, be a major plus and a reinforcement of faith. Just spitballing of course.

I am not sure I follow. The only way faith is strengthened is through non-religious forces. Going to church is not living one's faith any more than going grocery shopping is the same thing as food energizing the body.