Iraq War veteran critically injured after being hit with a grenade by Oakland Police

[Dot Com]

If I heard the findings from the CBO that just came out, I wouldn't want to leave either.
CBO study shows growing income disparity - Oct. 26, 2011

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

 

[Vast LWC]

Are you implying that we do not have laws that require you to have permits to hold Rallies in Public Places?

Really?

lol

According to the Constitution, yes.

Just like limiting where you can carry a firearm is unconstitutional.

Do you feel that municipalities have the right to forbid you to carry a firearm in their town or state?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We should get rid of all police they are brutal and of no use to us, all they do is purposefully harm our returning vets.

Or, maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't try to sick the police on innocent people who are exercising their constitutionally guaranteed rights.

But no, that would be too simple. I guess we'll have to stick with hyperbole.

They have no right to take over a park. They have no right to riot after to being ordered to leave. They have no right to assault the cops clearing the park.

As for flash bangs I just read an article that none were thrown but that the protestors were throwing fireworks.

 

[Vast LWC]

If I heard the latest findings from the CBO that just came out, I wouldn't want to leave either.
CBO study shows growing income disparity - Oct. 26, 2011

For the top 1% of the population, average inflation-adjusted household income grew by 275%. The rest of wealthiest fifth of the population, not including the top 1%, saw household income grow by 65% during that time, faster than the rest of the population, but "not nearly as fast as for the top 1%."

In fact, the top 1% has specifically taken 10% of the nations wealth from the bottom 80% in the past 30 years.

Most of it through organized usury, thanks to the corporate banks bribing public officials to effectively invalidate all usury laws.

 

[Mr. H.]

 

[Vast LWC]

They have no right to take over a park. They have no right to riot after to being ordered to leave. They have no right to assault the cops clearing the park.

As for flash bangs I just read an article that none were thrown but that the protestors were throwing fireworks.

Again, if you have ANY video evidence of the crowd assaulting police officers FIRST (meaning not in self-defense), I would be happy to see it.

Do you have any video evidence of protestors "throwing fireworks"?

Because the video I posted clearly shows the police using flash-bang grenades.

 

[California Girl]

I am somewhat sure PMS-NBC will be all over this story soon. Just like with F&F and Solyndra Scandal.

As you can also be sure that FoxNews will either not cover it at all, or spend the next 24 hours defending the cop who shot the guy.

Extremist media is fucking ridiculous on both sides.

Extremist?

Oh my, how very hyperbolic of you.

I'm actually leaning toward siding with the vet.... although I would want to have ALL the facts, not just the spin shit before I decide.... but your pathetic bitching about 'extremist' media is too fucking moronic.

I hope you're as embarrassed as you should be. But I doubt it.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You are definitely not a lawyer........ Are you even suggesting that a City, County, or State cannot require, by law, that a group apply for a permit for a rally? Are you saying that it cannot be illegal to camp in a public square? Are you really trying to make these arguments?

Because I do believe you will fail badly........

I am suggesting that it is unconstitutional to stop protesters from gathering in a public place to address grievances.

It is very clearly written in the Constitution.

Local authorities can of course choose to make laws that contradict the First Amendment, that doesn't make them any more constitutional.

Just as making local laws that contradict the right to bear arms are clearly unconstitutional, on public property.

Or are you arguing that it's OK for local authorities to ban firearms? Because as a big 2nd amendment supporter, I would strongly disagree.

Ever been to a rally in a downtown area? I have, several in fact. I was even at an OWS rally. Guess what? They had a permit, But they had to follow certain laws, like staying on the sidewalk area and not blocking or interfering with traffic. No littering. I believe there is even a law against spitting on the sidewalk. I don't see in any of the videos from Oakland where the protesters were following any of those basic laws. In fact in one video a car almost took out a few of them. Sorry but these people were breaking local laws, and the constitution cannot save them.......

 

[earlycuyler]

Exercising there right to throw rocks and bottles, and ignoring an order to disperse. Fuck that guy. He should have listened and moved.

You have video of the crowd "throwing rocks and bottles" prior to the police moving in and assaulting the crowd?

Please feel free to present it.

Nope, Got proof that it did not happen ? Didn't think so. If they were peacefully assembled, where is Jerry Brown ? Where is the outcry ? None at all. The morons are already saying they will go back. If they do they will get more of the same, and that's part of there plan. They have to escalate the situation because the media is starting to ignore them. Nothing more then a cry for attention. And just because the guy claims to be a vet that does not excuse him for his stupidity.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The right to protest does NOT include turning a pubic park into a camp ground with OUT a permit.

The Cops were ordered to clear the park. The violence began when the protestors resisted and escalated when they counter attacked to retake the park.

Pretty simple stuff.

 

[Vast LWC]

Extremist?

Oh my, how very hyperbolic of you.

I'm actually leaning toward siding with the vet.... although I would want to have ALL the facts, not just the spin shit before I decide.... but your pathetic bitching about 'extremist' media is too fucking moronic.

I hope you're as embarrassed as you should be. But I doubt it.

I suggest you read that exchange again.

I was not "bitching" about anything, I was responding to the posters criticism of MSNBC, a news outlet that I too consider to be biased, just as I consider FoxNews to be biased.

And I'm not really sure how watching a video of events and forming an opinion, instead of listening to talking heads spit out their opinions first, is considered "deciding based on spin".

 

[Katzndogz]

I am somewhat sure PMS-NBC will be all over this story soon. Just like with F&F and Solyndra Scandal.

As you can also be sure that FoxNews will either not cover it at all, or spend the next 24 hours defending the cop who shot the guy.

Extremist media is fucking ridiculous on both sides.

No cop shot the guy, he wasn't shot. He was injured by a flash bang, I expect he threw himself on top of it! To be injured by a flash bang you have to be very close, almost touching.

This guy is a vet? Really? With no more training than that?

A Stunning New Flash-Bang

"If a conventional flash-bang goes off in someone's hand or lap, they have the potential to do a lot of damage," Grubelich said. "But because ours do not operate with this pressure explosion, they will not cause severe blast injuries. You may get superficial flash burns but you won't lose any fingers."

Because the new device uses aluminum powder, it's very stable.

"It's not explosive material. You can dump it out onto the table and handle it with no danger at all," Grubelich said.

Pardon me if I'm fresh out of sympathy.

 

[Vast LWC]

Ever been to a rally in a downtown area? I have, several in fact. I was even at an OWS rally. Guess what? They had a permit, But they had to follow certain laws, like staying on the sidewalk area and not blocking or interfering with traffic. No littering. I believe there is even a law against spitting on the sidewalk. I don't see in any of the videos from Oakland where the protesters were following any of those basic laws. In fact in one video a car almost took out a few of them. Sorry but these people were breaking local laws, and the constitution cannot save them.......

OK, I'll tell you what, for the sake of argument, let's say some of these laws, like "littering" or "jaywalking" are enforceable. And mind you, I"m not even admitting that they are.

When exactly did the punishment for jaywalking in Oakland become "being shot in the head with a flash-bang grenade?

Seems like the cops should have been walking around handing out tickets to me. Instead, they were shooting tear gas cannisters at people.

 

[Vast LWC]

Nope, Got proof that it did not happen ? Didn't think so. If they were peacefully assembled, where is Jerry Brown ? Where is the outcry ? None at all. The morons are already saying they will go back. If they do they will get more of the same, and that's part of there plan. They have to escalate the situation because the media is starting to ignore them. Nothing more then a cry for attention. And just because the guy claims to be a vet that does not excuse him for his stupidity.

That is a nonsensical argument.

Do I have proof that martians didn't come down from the sky and shoot someone in the head with a death ray?

No. Nor do I need any.

I have proof of the point I am making, you do not have any proof of the point you are making.

It is not my job to disprove your unproved, perhaps fictional tales.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ever been to a rally in a downtown area? I have, several in fact. I was even at an OWS rally. Guess what? They had a permit, But they had to follow certain laws, like staying on the sidewalk area and not blocking or interfering with traffic. No littering. I believe there is even a law against spitting on the sidewalk. I don't see in any of the videos from Oakland where the protesters were following any of those basic laws. In fact in one video a car almost took out a few of them. Sorry but these people were breaking local laws, and the constitution cannot save them.......

OK, I'll tell you what, for the sake of argument, let's say some of these laws, like "littering" or "jaywalking" are enforceable. And mind you, I"m not even admitting that they are.

When exactly did the punishment for jaywalking in Oakland become "being shot in the head with a flash-bang grenade?

Seems like the cops should have been walking around handing out tickets to me. Instead, they were shooting tear gas cannisters at people.

Once again for the slow and amazingly stupid. They were ordered to CLEAR the park. The right to assemble does not give you the right to camp in a city park in mass without the cities permission. It wasn't about jaywalking or litter. It was about physically removing people and their crap from a city park.

And there would have been no violence if the protestors had simply left. THEY chose to resist. They chose to counter attack to reclaim the park.

 

[Conservative]

Oakland Police critically injured Scott Olsen, a Marine Corps veteran twice deployed to Iraq, with a flash bang grenade.

Occupy Oakland protests - live coverage | World news | guardian.co.uk

According to a video of the encounter, seen here:

Oakland Policeman Throws Flash Grenade Into Crowd Trying To Help Injured Protester - YouTube

Olsen was wounded while he was attempting to come to the aid of a second injured protester.

20 second mark of the video 'it's hard to see from the video exactly how this demonstrator was wounded'.

 

[Vast LWC]

No cop shot the guy, he wasn't shot. He was injured by a flash bang, I expect he threw himself on top of it! To be injured by a flash bang you have to be very close, almost touching.

This guy is a vet? Really? With no more training than that?

A Stunning New Flash-Bang

"If a conventional flash-bang goes off in someone's hand or lap, they have the potential to do a lot of damage," Grubelich said. "But because ours do not operate with this pressure explosion, they will not cause severe blast injuries. You may get superficial flash burns but you won't lose any fingers."

Because the new device uses aluminum powder, it's very stable.

"It's not explosive material. You can dump it out onto the table and handle it with no danger at all," Grubelich said.

Pardon me if I'm fresh out of sympathy.

Psst... Ever hear of a "Granade Launcher"?

They're generally used in mob dispersal situations to launch grenades at a distance.

However, you are right, I do not have proof that a launcher was used. No proof that is except for the critical condition of the person who was hit.

 

[Vast LWC]

20 second mark of the video 'it's hard to see from the video exactly how this demonstrator was wounded'.

That comment was referring to the original wounded person.

The person that the people who then got hit by the grenade were trying to help.

There was then a second wounded person.

 

[Vast LWC]

Once again for the slow and amazingly stupid. They were ordered to CLEAR the park. The right to assemble does not give you the right to camp in a city park in mass without the cities permission. It wasn't about jaywalking or litter. It was about physically removing people and their crap from a city park.

And there would have been no violence if the protestors had simply left. THEY chose to resist. They chose to counter attack to reclaim the park.

Again, what you just said gives States and municipalities the right to unconstitutionally ban firearms.

If you believe that States and cities cannot ban the bearing of firearms, then you must also logically agree with my point.

And, you used the phrase "counter attack", which implies self defense. People are allowed to act in self defense, even if it's against the police.

But there has been no proof presented that anyone attacked the police in the first place, now has there? Just Hearsay.

 

[Conservative]

I am somewhat sure PMS-NBC will be all over this story soon. Just like with F&F and Solyndra Scandal.

As you can also be sure that FoxNews will either not cover it at all, or spend the next 24 hours defending the cop who shot the guy.

Extremist media is fucking ridiculous on both sides.

you said in the OP it was a flash grenade. Now he's been shot????