Iranian aid ship sales to Gaza today

[GHook93]

let me guess,... It's the...

Future of the Iranian so-called humanitarian ship!!! Hope you don't cry too hard when it becomes reality! Israel will sink it. Iran will declare war and fire its ineffective missiles one or two might get through and then Israel launches a MAJOR and DEVASTATING AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE!!!

The Targets:
(1) Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(2) Iran's Tiny and Ancient Air Force
(3) Iran's Long Range Missile Sites
(4) Iran's Few Gas Refineries
(5) Iran's Tiny Navy

The Iranians might be playing right into Israel's hands!

Hopefully they also make a B line and hit P F Titmore's Parent's basement, they way P F Titmore won't bore us anymore with bullshit!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You say the Arabs lost? The war was called to an end by UN resolution. Lebanon lost no land. Syria lost no land, Jordan lost no land. Egypt lost no land. What did they lose?

The war was not about land, it was fought with the intent to deny Israel the right to exist as a separate state, are you trying to clam they succeeded at that goal? The fact that Israel exists proves they lost, no matter how you spin it now.

 

[manu1959]

if iran salis into israeli waters without permision...doesn't israel have the right, under international law to sink their ship.....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Israel refuses to declare any borders.

They have constructed a cage around Gaza, but there are no borders because that would preclude further Israeli aggression.

The Egypt - Israel peace treaty officially recognizes a border, they must have declared that one, which makes your entire argument out to be based on bullshit.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Egypt lifted their blockade.

Prove it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel refuses to declare any borders.

They have constructed a cage around Gaza, but there are no borders because that would preclude further Israeli aggression.

The Egypt - Israel peace treaty officially recognizes a border, they must have declared that one, which makes your entire argument out to be based on bullshit.

PEACE TREATY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT
March 26, 1979

Article I

1. The state of war between the Parties will be terminated and peace will be established between them upon the exchange of instruments of ratification of this Treaty.

2. Israel will withdraw all its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai behind the international boundary between Egypt and mandated Palestine, as provided in the annexed protocol (Annex I ), and Egypt will resume the exercise of its full sovereignty over the Sinai.

Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Israel refuses to declare any borders.

They have constructed a cage around Gaza, but there are no borders because that would preclude further Israeli aggression.

The Egypt - Israel peace treaty officially recognizes a border, they must have declared that one, which makes your entire argument out to be based on bullshit.

PEACE TREATY BETWEEN ISRAEL AND EGYPT
March 26, 1979

Article I

1. The state of war between the Parties will be terminated and peace will be established between them upon the exchange of instruments of ratification of this Treaty.

2. Israel will withdraw all its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai behind the international boundary between Egypt and mandated Palestine, as provided in the annexed protocol (Annex I ), and Egypt will resume the exercise of its full sovereignty over the Sinai.

Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty

Let me guess, that is supposed to prove me wrong, it doesn't.

Borders of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

Anyone can write a Wikipedia article.

Straight from the horse's mouth.
----------------------------------------------
Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and- Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949
--------------------
Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

Article V

3. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall be as delineated on the map attached to this Agreement as annex I.(3) The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow a line midway between the existing truce lines, as certified by the United Nations Truce Supervision Organization for the Israeli and Syrian forces. Where the existing truce lines run along the international boundary between Syria and Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the boundary line

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949
----------------------------
Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Article V

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions as surveyed in March 1949 by United Nations observers, and shall run from north to south as delineated on map 1 in annex I to this Agreement.

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949
---------------------------
Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

Article V

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Article VIII

2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the Egypt-Palestine frontier five (5) kilometres north-west of the intersection of the Rafah-El Auja road and the frontier (MR 08750468), south-east to Khashm El Mamdud (MR 09650414), thence south-east to Hill 405 (MR 10780285), thence south-west to a point on the Egypt-Palestine frontier five (5) kilometres southeast of the intersection of the old railway tracks and the frontier (MR 09950145), thence returning north-west along the Egypt-Palestine frontier to the point of origin.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

There are no borders mentioned for Israel.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Read the one I cited.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Read the one I cited.

I quoted five actual documents.

Your Wikipedia article was written by ????

 

[georgephillip]

You say the Arabs lost? The war was called to an end by UN resolution. Lebanon lost no land. Syria lost no land, Jordan lost no land. Egypt lost no land. What did they lose?

The war was not about land, it was fought with the intent to deny Israel the right to exist as a separate state, are you trying to clam they succeeded at that goal? The fact that Israel exists proves they lost, no matter how you spin it now.

How does Israel exist as a separate state without land?

Israel vs Palestine is only about land, unlike South African apartheid where part of the struggle involved cheap labor.

 

[georgephillip]

if iran salis into israeli waters without permision...doesn't israel have the right, under international law to sink their ship.....

I think the answer to your question depends on where Gaza's territorial waters end and Israel's begin. Israel has the bigger guns so Gaza's airspace, land, and territorial waters are currently under the "effective control" of the IDF.

There's little doubt in my mind Israel will sink the Iranian aid ship, and her supporters will cheer loudly.

This isn't only about Israel vs Palestine or Israel vs Iran or Israel vs Turkey. All of us on all sides of this question would be well advised to focus on the forest at least as much as any individual tree.

US midterm elections are just over four months away.
Think about how many things could go wrong before Nov. 2nd.

Israel sinks the Iranian ship?
Israeli and Turkish warships swap shells off Gaza?
The US economy CRASHES (Dow 5000) by Halloween?

Just as events spiraled out of control in the Balkans nearly a century ago, events in the Middle East today could bring the human specie to the brink of extinction.

 

[georgephillip]

Israel refuses to declare any borders.

They have constructed a cage around Gaza, but there are no borders because that would preclude further Israeli aggression.

The Egypt - Israel peace treaty officially recognizes a border, they must have declared that one, which makes your entire argument out to be based on bullshit.

My source regarding Israeli borders was Ray McGovern's article on CounterPunch. Ray spent nearly 30 years as an Army infantry/intelligence officer and CIA analyst.

"...Israel is not an ally of the United States. Webster's (and international law) define ally as 'a state associated with another by treaty.'

"There is no mutual defense treaty between the US and Israel. (Washington has broached the idea to Israel from time to time, but Israel has said no thanks. Treaties, you see, require internationally recognized borders, and--for obvious reasons--Israeli leaders avoid that subject like the plague.")

You might consider the possibility that US support for Israel is due mainly to the profits earned from arms sales and (Arab) oil sales.

 

[CurveLight]

let me guess,... It's the...

Future of the Iranian so-called humanitarian ship!!! Hope you don't cry too hard when it becomes reality! Israel will sink it. Iran will declare war and fire its ineffective missiles one or two might get through and then Israel launches a MAJOR and DEVASTATING AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE!!!

The Targets:
(1) Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(2) Iran's Tiny and Ancient Air Force
(3) Iran's Long Range Missile Sites
(4) Iran's Few Gas Refineries
(5) Iran's Tiny Navy

The Iranians might be playing right into Israel's hands!

Hopefully they also make a B line and hit P F Titmore's Parent's basement, they way P F Titmore won't bore us anymore with bullshit!

What's wrong with you sick fucks? Do you war mongering blood lusting cocksucking. bitches just fall out of broken sewer lines or are you manufactured? How fucked up do you have to be to cheer war like it's a fucking game? Sick fuck.

 

[al Haq]

I am not a Zionist, I'm not even Jewish. It just seems that most people who are rabidly anti-israel are also rabid anti-semites, scared that the JOOOOOOS!!! are coming to get them.

Zionism is not a religion or an ethnicity; it's a political ideology. Not all Zionists are Jewish, and not all Jews are Zionists.

Hyperbole about people who happen to have opposing political views being "rabid" does not add to any serious discussion.

And the surrender question is not inane. Every warring culture has gotten to the point that further resistance is futile. Even our own southerners turned in the towel once they realized the war was unwinnable.

Who has a “warring culture”?

“Resistance is futile” is a term made up for a television show ("Star Trek") that represents an evil totalitarian government’s threats to use overwhelming force to annihilate the heroic resistance fighters. So you made an interesting analogy there, but probably not the one you intended.

Assuming that the Palestinian struggle against occupation is “futile” would be quite an assumption - one might call it “Zio wishful thinking.” Throughout history, occupied peoples have managed to throw off their oppressors, despite what seemed to be a loaded deck against them.

In fact, in the modern age, when an indigenous population's resistance to foreign occupation turns into insurgency or full-scale war, the resistance usually wins - even when it takes decades. Framing it as “counter-terrorism” doesn’t make any difference.

The American South in the U.S. Civil War was not an example of an occupied people resisting their oppressors (although its society was based on the oppression and control of one ethnic group by another.)

A final settlement of the Israel/palestine question requires one side to give up some of its core demands. Either the Palestinians have to accept that the current borders are whats going to happen, or the Israelis have to leave or accept Arab governance under a single state solution, and these two are NOT going to happen.

Any other ending is not "peace" but mearly an interlude. As clauswitz pointed out peace is not the suspension of a given conflict but the resolution of said conflict.

What “current borders” are you talking about? Please be specific.

Apart from Palestinians accepting these unspecified "borders," you say that the only other choices for a solution would either require Israelis to leave, or to live in an “Arab” state, which you say "won't happen."

But you have completely ignored the standard interpretation of the “two-state solution,” and you ignore the alternative single-state solution which is neither an “Arab” nor a “Jewish” state, but instead is a nation that represents all of its citizens. Do you consider these to be impossible scenarios? If so, why?

 

[GHook93]

let me guess,... It's the...

Future of the Iranian so-called humanitarian ship!!! Hope you don't cry too hard when it becomes reality! Israel will sink it. Iran will declare war and fire its ineffective missiles one or two might get through and then Israel launches a MAJOR and DEVASTATING AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE!!!

The Targets:
(1) Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(2) Iran's Tiny and Ancient Air Force
(3) Iran's Long Range Missile Sites
(4) Iran's Few Gas Refineries
(5) Iran's Tiny Navy

The Iranians might be playing right into Israel's hands!

Hopefully they also make a B line and hit P F Titmore's Parent's basement, they way P F Titmore won't bore us anymore with bullshit!

What's wrong with you sick fucks? Do you war mongering blood lusting cocksucking. bitches just fall out of broken sewer lines or are you manufactured? How fucked up do you have to be to cheer war like it's a fucking game? Sick fuck.

Let me get this straight. Iran has threatened Israel multiple times with annihilation (of course you will deny that because your a dishonest douche bag), Israel has in fact been attacked numerous times by enemies hell bent on annihilating her (although never directly by Iran), Iran supplies arms to Hezbollah and Hamas, in fact Iran has been caught red handed doing this, Iran is an enemy state to Israel and Iran is trying to break Israel's sovereignty. Furthermore, if an Israel civilian ship accidentally went into Iranian water, it would be sank, if boarded the crew would be arrested and either put to death or imprisoned in tortorious cells. Heck 3 American douche bag hikers who hate America and are very sympathic to Iran were arrested as spies and will be imprisoned a LONG time. The British Ship that accidentally went into Iranian waters was boarded and the crew members were detained.

This is also a nation openly seeking nuclear arms which would spark a nuclear arms race through the region.

Yet I am the crazy one for hoping Israel sends a STRONG message to Iran and that she might finally get a valid excuse to take out Iran's nuclear program (like she did to Iraq's) and criple Iran's paper dragon airforce, navy and missile system!

By the GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

 

[Shogun]

still haven't mastered the English language yet, eh ghook?



Speaking of dishonest motherfuckers... did you ever want to admit how fucked up the zionist translation was regarding the whole "push zionism into the sea" israel fiasco or are you content parading around the assumption of a threat to jews in general?

whatever works, right?

 

[CurveLight]

let me guess,... It's the...

Future of the Iranian so-called humanitarian ship!!! Hope you don't cry too hard when it becomes reality! Israel will sink it. Iran will declare war and fire its ineffective missiles one or two might get through and then Israel launches a MAJOR and DEVASTATING AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE!!!

The Targets:
(1) Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(2) Iran's Tiny and Ancient Air Force
(3) Iran's Long Range Missile Sites
(4) Iran's Few Gas Refineries
(5) Iran's Tiny Navy

The Iranians might be playing right into Israel's hands!

Hopefully they also make a B line and hit P F Titmore's Parent's basement, they way P F Titmore won't bore us anymore with bullshit!

Future of the Iranian so-called humanitarian ship!!! Hope you don't cry too hard when it becomes reality! Israel will sink it. Iran will declare war and fire its ineffective missiles one or two might get through and then Israel launches a MAJOR and DEVASTATING AIR AND MISSILE STRIKE!!!

The Targets:
(1) Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(2) Iran's Tiny and Ancient Air Force
(3) Iran's Long Range Missile Sites
(4) Iran's Few Gas Refineries
(5) Iran's Tiny Navy

The Iranians might be playing right into Israel's hands!

Hopefully they also make a B line and hit P F Titmore's Parent's basement, they way P F Titmore won't bore us anymore with bullshit!

What's wrong with you sick fucks? Do you war mongering blood lusting cocksucking. bitches just fall out of broken sewer lines or are you manufactured? How fucked up do you have to be to cheer war like it's a fucking game? Sick fuck.

Let me get this straight. Iran has threatened Israel multiple times with annihilation (of course you will deny that because your a dishonest douche bag), Israel has in fact been attacked numerous times by enemies hell bent on annihilating her (although never directly by Iran), Iran supplies arms to Hezbollah and Hamas, in fact Iran has been caught red handed doing this, Iran is an enemy state to Israel and Iran is trying to break Israel's sovereignty. Furthermore, if an Israel civilian ship accidentally went into Iranian water, it would be sank, if boarded the crew would be arrested and either put to death or imprisoned in tortorious cells. Heck 3 American douche bag hikers who hate America and are very sympathic to Iran were arrested as spies and will be imprisoned a LONG time. The British Ship that accidentally went into Iranian waters was boarded and the crew members were detained.

This is also a nation openly seeking nuclear arms which would spark a nuclear arms race through the region.

Yet I am the crazy one for hoping Israel sends a STRONG message to Iran and that she might finally get a valid excuse to take out Iran's nuclear program (like she did to Iraq's) and criple Iran's paper dragon airforce, navy and missile system!

By the GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

So your response for being called out on your blood lust is to tell me to go.....masturbate?

Maybe you sick fucks really do just fall out of broken sewer lines.......

 

[martybegan]

This is more Zio double-speak. The Israeli government has stated on repeated occasions that Hamas do wear uniforms:


Linkie:
FM Livni briefing in Sderot - Opening remarks 28-Dec-2008



Linkie:
Operation Cast Lead updates



As usual, Zionists don't generally even try to disprove critical reports, but instead claim that anyone who disagrees with them is anti-Israel/anti-Semitic.



Israel is constantly testing the waters to see how many Arab civilians it may slaughter before the international community will pressure it to stop. Currently, the answer seems to be "1500 in a three-week period is acceptable, but after that you have to back off."



Because it's such an inane question.

I am not a Zionist, I'm not even Jewish. It just seems that most people who are rabidly anti-israel are also rabid anti-semites, scared that the JOOOOOOS!!! are coming to get them.

And the surrender question is not inane. Every warring culture has gotten to the point that further resistance is futile. Even our own southerners turned in the towel once they realized the war was unwinnable.

A final settlement of the Israel/palestine question requires one side to give up some of its core demands. Either the Palestinians have to accept that the current borders are whats going to happen, or the Israelis have to leave or accept Arab governance under a single state solution, and these two are NOT going to happen.

Any other ending is not "peace" but mearly an interlude. As clauswitz pointed out peace is not the suspension of a given conflict but the resolution of said conflict.

Palestinians have the legal and moral high ground in this conflict. The tides are turning away from Israel and toward Palestine. After over 60 years of conflict I don't see the Palestinians surrendering now that things are looking up.

In your opinion maybe. Possession is 90% owenership, and again the Israelis arent going anywhere.

Looking up? Ha.

 

[martybegan]

I am not a Zionist, I'm not even Jewish. It just seems that most people who are rabidly anti-israel are also rabid anti-semites, scared that the JOOOOOOS!!! are coming to get them.

Zionism is not a religion or an ethnicity; it's a political ideology. Not all Zionists are Jewish, and not all Jews are Zionists.

Hyperbole about people who happen to have opposing political views being "rabid" does not add to any serious discussion.

And the surrender question is not inane. Every warring culture has gotten to the point that further resistance is futile. Even our own southerners turned in the towel once they realized the war was unwinnable.

Who has a “warring culture”?

“Resistance is futile” is a term made up for a television show ("Star Trek") that represents an evil totalitarian government’s threats to use overwhelming force to annihilate the heroic resistance fighters. So you made an interesting analogy there, but probably not the one you intended.

Assuming that the Palestinian struggle against occupation is “futile” would be quite an assumption - one might call it “Zio wishful thinking.” Throughout history, occupied peoples have managed to throw off their oppressors, despite what seemed to be a loaded deck against them.

In fact, in the modern age, when an indigenous population's resistance to foreign occupation turns into insurgency or full-scale war, the resistance usually wins - even when it takes decades. Framing it as “counter-terrorism” doesn’t make any difference.

The American South in the U.S. Civil War was not an example of an occupied people resisting their oppressors (although its society was based on the oppression and control of one ethnic group by another.)

A final settlement of the Israel/palestine question requires one side to give up some of its core demands. Either the Palestinians have to accept that the current borders are whats going to happen, or the Israelis have to leave or accept Arab governance under a single state solution, and these two are NOT going to happen.

Any other ending is not "peace" but mearly an interlude. As clauswitz pointed out peace is not the suspension of a given conflict but the resolution of said conflict.

What “current borders” are you talking about? Please be specific.

Apart from Palestinians accepting these unspecified "borders," you say that the only other choices for a solution would either require Israelis to leave, or to live in an “Arab” state, which you say "won't happen."

But you have completely ignored the standard interpretation of the “two-state solution,” and you ignore the alternative single-state solution which is neither an “Arab” nor a “Jewish” state, but instead is a nation that represents all of its citizens. Do you consider these to be impossible scenarios? If so, why?

The two state solution is rejected by the leaders of the very people you are defending. And yes, I consider the one state solution to be unworkable as if you go with it the jewish Israelis would be outnumbered, and the goverment put in place would be controlled by people with an axe to grind. Are you telling me a palestinian majority goverment would play nice?

A one state solution is impossible, and again, the two state solution is rejected by most leaders of palestinians, even if they give it lip service in public.