Individual mandate in trouble?

[Ernie S.]

I all for it going down as long as we FORCE insurance companies to pick up the perons coverage if they do get sick. Good if they make less profit. This pre existing condition stuff? Those who say no I hope for their downfall. Pray for it.

Do you want your auto insurance to pay for preexisting dents too?

 

[Avatar4321]

No.......I think the loving thing is to care for others. Period.

You are looking for excuses to disregard others. Ayn Rand is your Jesus.

So you care for others by violating their wishes? Creating shortages? Providing them with crappier care? Increasing their costs? Driving medical providers out of business? You care for people by stealing their money and forcing things to be done your way.

That's not loving. That's criminal.

Japan. Canada. Germany. France. Spain. The Netherlands. England. Australia. The lsit goes on. You are being lied to. Please learn.

So you think citing crappy systems with the very problems im pointing out proves your arguments?

 

[initforme]

"While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms? "

All people want is affordable health care. Right now it aint affordable to those who work hard just to maintain. That says alot about our country. ALOT OF BAD.

 

[candycorn]

Justice Kennedy has harsh questions for the govts lawyer.

Check out scotusblog

Not looking good for uncle Sam.

I hate to quibble on points, but I think it looks excellent for Uncle Sam. Our nation wont be strapped with this Administrations unconstitutional laws.

At least, assuming these questions mean that they will throw out the mandate. Which isn't necessarily true.

Personally, I dont know how you can use the government to compel someone into a contract. One of the first things you learn in law school about contracts is that coercion is a ground for invalidating any contract. If the law stands, I would argue that we have a significant flaw in our current legal system that can completely undermine the laws by which our economy is governed.

Can't say I disagree with you; if they find it unconstitutional, it therefore is an unconstitutional law.

Let me ask you this though: Do you think it then becomes a political football for Obama? I can see where some would think it becomes an albatross and I'm not sure that it doesn't. Losing it though, may help him and the democrats politically since they had to go into such contortions to get it passed, I can see them arguing, "If we had more democrats in congress, we would have passed a better-suited bill." Or some argument like that.

 

[Ropey]

People should really put down their prediction rods. Getting asked tough questions in oral argument doesn't mean the judge is going to rule against you.

I agree. Of course this judge will ask deep questions from both sides of the divide. The mandate is far more important than the rest of Obama Care. Of course it all falls down to forcing the public and if that mandate fails, then so does the Obama Care payment structure. If there's no money to follow, there's no one following.

If the mandate passes and Obama Care were to be repealed or not, this still allows for an individual mandate tied to commerce.

Inactivity does not come under the provisions of the commerce clause.

Activity sure does and what is inactive can become active. Just get a lawyer.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There's no mandate. There's no penalty for not taking medicare. obamacare is the first time in history that the government intends to penalize inactivity. That's why there were the questions about whether the government can mandate cell phones and burial insurance. The government has just never taxed or penalized NOT doing something.

Are you sure about that?

That is what the Justices said. To tax or penalize inactivity fundamentally changes the relationship between the individual and the government.

GONZALES V. RAICH

 

[The T]

We could always also just get the government out of it and allow people to contract with insurance companies for coverge they want.

Or....we could remove the profit motive from anything having to do with the health and wellness of our fellow humans........your god's children..........and place the burden for the health of our brothers and sisters on all of our shoulders.

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Indeed. it's an attack on the private sector. On individuals.

Everyone is the same, everyone has same motive. (According the the Statist left).

 

[initforme]

"Do you want your auto insurance to pay for preexisting dents too? "

Idiotic argument. You miss the point. MAKE IT AFFORDABLE. Trouble with reading?

 

[LoneLaugher]

We could always also just get the government out of it and allow people to contract with insurance companies for coverge they want.

Or....we could remove the profit motive from anything having to do with the health and wellness of our fellow humans........your god's children..........and place the burden for the health of our brothers and sisters on all of our shoulders.

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Dumb argument.

 

[Meister]

Yes. Do you think you have trapped me or something? The law was passed by duly elected representatives of the people and signed by the duly elected President of the United States. They shouldn't even be hearing the case.

That's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard in my life. Apparently, you haven't the slightest clue what federal court system is for. Idiot.

Really? The stupidest reasoning you've ever heard in your life? Whoa!

Is the federal court system for overturning the will of the people?

More like overturning the will of the democrat politicians that passed this in the middle of the night. I know a lot of democrat "people" that think this is a bogus bill.

 

[initforme]

"Indeed. it's an attack on the private sector. On individuals."

Insurance companies charging me exhorbitant prices is an attack on me. But I should have access to affrodable health care. Without insurance I dont. They should have to cover everything I need if I am paying their ridiculous premiums.

 

[Avatar4321]

Justice Kennedy has harsh questions for the govts lawyer.

Check out scotusblog

Not looking good for uncle Sam.

I hate to quibble on points, but I think it looks excellent for Uncle Sam. Our nation wont be strapped with this Administrations unconstitutional laws.

At least, assuming these questions mean that they will throw out the mandate. Which isn't necessarily true.

Personally, I dont know how you can use the government to compel someone into a contract. One of the first things you learn in law school about contracts is that coercion is a ground for invalidating any contract. If the law stands, I would argue that we have a significant flaw in our current legal system that can completely undermine the laws by which our economy is governed.

Can't say I disagree with you; if they find it unconstitutional, it therefore is an unconstitutional law.

Let me ask you this though: Do you think it then becomes a political football for Obama? I can see where some would think it becomes an albatross and I'm not sure that it doesn't. Losing it though, may help him and the democrats politically since they had to go into such contortions to get it passed, I can see them arguing, "If we had more democrats in congress, we would have passed a better-suited bill." Or some argument like that.

They could argue that. I think they'd be freaking stupid to since the people overwhelmingly opposed it to begin with. But hey, if they want to guarantee a GOP victory this year then please feel free.

 

[Mac1958]

.

If indeed this thing is knocked down, the GOP (once it finishes its happy dance) damn well better have an alternative. Something better than "we'll see what we can do, but you're still on your own."

.

 

[Ropey]

That's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard in my life. Apparently, you haven't the slightest clue what federal court system is for. Idiot.

Really? The stupidest reasoning you've ever heard in your life? Whoa!

Is the federal court system for overturning the will of the people?

More like overturning the will of the democrat politicians that passed this in the middle of the night. I know a lot of democrat "people" that think this is a bogus bill.

That's really good to hear Meister.

 

[Avatar4321]

"Indeed. it's an attack on the private sector. On individuals."

Insurance companies charging me exhorbitant prices is an attack on me. But I should have access to affrodable health care. Without insurance I dont. They should have to cover everything I need if I am paying their ridiculous premiums.

Then dont buy insurance. Or start your own insurance company. That's the beauty of America. We can do things differently.

 

[Meister]

Or....we could remove the profit motive from anything having to do with the health and wellness of our fellow humans........your god's children..........and place the burden for the health of our brothers and sisters on all of our shoulders.

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Dumb argument.

Yeah, it is. But, the government could very well force you to do it.
They would have the authority.

 

[LoneLaugher]

So you care for others by violating their wishes? Creating shortages? Providing them with crappier care? Increasing their costs? Driving medical providers out of business? You care for people by stealing their money and forcing things to be done your way.

That's not loving. That's criminal.

Japan. Canada. Germany. France. Spain. The Netherlands. England. Australia. The lsit goes on. You are being lied to. Please learn.

So you think citing crappy systems with the very problems im pointing out proves your arguments?

Info for you. I LIVED in one of those countries for 10 years. My three kids were born there and the cost for health care for my family was 20% of what I pay here. The care was better and more customized than it is here.

WE DO NOT DO THIS WELL HERE.

Why are so many of you people unable to accept that we need to make changes. It is fucking embarrassing.

 

[Avatar4321]

.

If indeed this thing is knocked down, the GOP (once it finishes its happy dance) damn well better have an alternative. Something better than "we'll see what we can do, but you're still on your own."

.

Our alternative has always been the same: GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR HEALTH CARE

 

[Conservative]

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Dumb argument.

Yeah, it is. But, the government could very well force you to do it.
They would have the authority.

The federal government would NEVER go against the will of the people.

 

[The T]

That's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard in my life. Apparently, you haven't the slightest clue what federal court system is for. Idiot.

Really? The stupidest reasoning you've ever heard in your life? Whoa!

Is the federal court system for overturning the will of the people?

More like overturning the will of the democrat politicians that passed this in the middle of the night. I know a lot of democrat "people" that think this is a bogus bill.

Not only in the middle of the night but buying the Second Lousiana Purchase...and other backroom deals for a YES vote...

The New $300 Million Louisiana Purchase on the Backs of Tax Payers … How Senator Mary Landrieu (D-La.) Vote was Bought for Obamacare