Individual mandate in trouble?

[The T]

"Do you want your auto insurance to pay for preexisting dents too? "

Idiotic argument. You miss the point. MAKE IT AFFORDABLE. Trouble with reading?

No, it's not, son. We're talking about insurance here

And we're talking about robbing others for Government Control over others.

It isn't insurance at all...never has been.

 

[Ernie S.]

Or....we could remove the profit motive from anything having to do with the health and wellness of our fellow humans........your god's children..........and place the burden for the health of our brothers and sisters on all of our shoulders.

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Dumb argument.

We'll see if SCOTUS agrees with you, or me, won't we?

 

[candycorn]

.

If indeed this thing is knocked down, the GOP (once it finishes its happy dance) damn well better have an alternative. Something better than "we'll see what we can do, but you're still on your own."

.

Our alternative has always been the same: GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR HEALTH CARE

Agreed. "You're on your own". But how about a few specifics?

What is a person with pre-existing conditions supposed to do when he is declined by an insurance company? Even if he can afford the policy?

What is a person supposed to do if they can't afford $800 a month for a family policy?

What about their kids?

Should a person be turned away from the emergency room if they don't have insurance?

And on what date would you suggest ending Medicare and Medicaid health coverage? Because if you're consistent, you'll want government out of those, too.

Details, please.

I'll be interested to see the results. I think you should start a separate thread asking just the emboldened text above.

I guess the answer is that the framers of our 200+ year old business plan didn't want you to have medicare so it should be done away with too; like social security, like the space program, like the EPA, like OSHA, etc...

 

[The T]

*IF* Obamacare, and the individual mandate survive?

Where does it place 'TORT REFORM'?

 

[LoneLaugher]

While we're at it. maybe we should force carpenters and farmers to forgo their profit motives as well? What else do you think citizens should get free from the government? Cable? Internet? IPods? Condoms?

Dumb argument.

We'll see if SCOTUS agrees with you, or me, won't we?

No we won't. they are not deciding the stupidity of your argument.

 

[initforme]

"Why couldn't you do that? "

Cuz I dont belong to the 1 percent. I worked hard my whole life. Bought my own house. Raised my kids. Didnt collect a dime of unemployment. But I see that health care is hard to afford. You believe differently. You believe that only a select few should be able to have it. You like the Plutocracy. I cant stand it which is why I dont fly my flag anymore.

 

[The T]

"Then dont buy insurance. Or start your own insurance company. That's the beauty of America. We can do things differently. "

Sure. I'll just start my own insurance company. Whatever. Like I could do that. The beauty of america. What a joke.

Then get your ASS off of here and DO IT.

 

[Liability]

"Why? Who are you and why are you special? "

There it is. So health care should be expensive and unaffordable. Why should people get health care right? What an incredibly stupid thought that is. Health care.

If ObamaCare fails (and I hope it does) that does NOT mean that Congress is forever barred from trying to put some Acts in place that deal with the issues.

Health care should NOT be overly expensive and it should not be unaffordable. But it should also not be something over which the government is free to cram their preferred form of "relief" down our throats -- against our wills -- and in violation of our Constitution.

In short: They may try again. But they might be put on notice that the WAY they choose to go about it must be within the bounds of the law and the Constitution.

If you and they don't like that, too fucking bad.

 

[Dragon]

Why exactly is it good for people to make less profits?

That would depend on the situation and what people are making profits on. The Thirteenth Amendment dramatically reduced the profits of slave traders and slave owners. Do you think that was a good idea or a bad one?

 

[Meister]

Can't say I disagree with you; if they find it unconstitutional, it therefore is an unconstitutional law.

Let me ask you this though: Do you think it then becomes a political football for Obama? I can see where some would think it becomes an albatross and I'm not sure that it doesn't. Losing it though, may help him and the democrats politically since they had to go into such contortions to get it passed, I can see them arguing, "If we had more democrats in congress, we would have passed a better-suited bill." Or some argument like that.

They could argue that. I think they'd be freaking stupid to since the people overwhelmingly opposed it to begin with. But hey, if they want to guarantee a GOP victory this year then please feel free.

I don't see the overwhelming dissent out there. Working in healthcare, I hardly see any dissent at all at the program itself.

I'll tell you what I hear from our administrators who are dealing with the situation--these are your classic middle aged men and women--Pool and Patio types; they love it; they love that the government made a law that moves the needle one way or the other because the alternative for our hospital system is that the number of occupied beds is decreasing most months. Fewer patients means fewer dollars to put it bluntly. As defacto traffic manager for the system, I see the numbers. Our census is way down over the last five years. Meanwhile the public sector hospitals are skyrocketing; this is what you and I are paying for.

So if the poor who are apparently going to be served by it are for it, and at least one sector of the extremely affluent are on board, if the socially conscious liberals and moderates are for it, if the ideological left is for it, I don't think there are "overwhelmingly" large numbers that would be against it.

Thanks for your input.

Really?

According to a recent USA Today/Gallup poll, if the decision about whether this central feature of the law should stay or go was up to the American public, the mandate would surely be overturned. The February poll, which sampled more than 1,000 American adults over the age of 18, found that 72% of Americans believe the mandate to be unconstitutional.
Poll: Americans Oppose Healthcare Mandate « Health Insurance Navigator

 

[Mac1958]

Our alternative has always been the same: GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR HEALTH CARE

Agreed. "You're on your own". But how about a few specifics?

What is a person with pre-existing conditions supposed to do when he is declined by an insurance company? Even if he can afford the policy?

What is a person supposed to do if they can't afford $800 a month for a family policy?

What about their kids?

Should a person be turned away from the emergency room if they don't have insurance?

And on what date would you suggest ending Medicare and Medicaid health coverage? Because if you're consistent, you'll want government out of those, too.

Details, please.

I'll be interested to see the results. I think you should start a separate thread asking just the emboldened text above.

I guess the answer is that the framers of our 200+ year old business plan didn't want you to have medicare so it should be done away with too; like social security, like the space program, like the EPA, like OSHA, etc...

Yup. And let your thoughts race for a moment. Imagine what would happen to current Medicare and Medicaid recipients if these folks had their way. What would happen to them?

But those who want this would cheer, because their "freedom" would be enhanced. So I guess there's a big fat silver lining.

.

 

[IHBF]

Why isn't the Occupy crowd up in arms about being forced to buy a product from a corporation?

 

[initforme]

"This Act needs to be scrapped so it can go back to Congress and they can create a good one that addresses the COST of health care so that the COST can be affordable even without insurance."

This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Yet some here would say "The system works just fine." But they are not my fellow americans.

 

[candycorn]

They could argue that. I think they'd be freaking stupid to since the people overwhelmingly opposed it to begin with. But hey, if they want to guarantee a GOP victory this year then please feel free.

I don't see the overwhelming dissent out there. Working in healthcare, I hardly see any dissent at all at the program itself.

I'll tell you what I hear from our administrators who are dealing with the situation--these are your classic middle aged men and women--Pool and Patio types; they love it; they love that the government made a law that moves the needle one way or the other because the alternative for our hospital system is that the number of occupied beds is decreasing most months. Fewer patients means fewer dollars to put it bluntly. As defacto traffic manager for the system, I see the numbers. Our census is way down over the last five years. Meanwhile the public sector hospitals are skyrocketing; this is what you and I are paying for.

So if the poor who are apparently going to be served by it are for it, and at least one sector of the extremely affluent are on board, if the socially conscious liberals and moderates are for it, if the ideological left is for it, I don't think there are "overwhelmingly" large numbers that would be against it.

Thanks for your input.

As long as your paycheck is secure and you have Obama making it happen, right?

My paycheck is incredibly secure. How's yours?

Our census is lessening but then again, Healthcare is a growth industry on the whole so it's a foolish thing for you to say.

Just pointing out (quoted from above):

they [the administrators] love that the government made a law that moves the needle one way or the other because the alternative for our hospital system is that the number of occupied beds is decreasing most months.

Whether it is struck down or not, we'll be doing very well. The most important thing for us is predictable forecasting so we can add/subtract staff, add/subtract outlays, etc...

Why you're in favor of paying directly for the poor through public sector hospitals instead of having a cheaper and better system is something for you to work out.

 

[Conservative]

They could argue that. I think they'd be freaking stupid to since the people overwhelmingly opposed it to begin with. But hey, if they want to guarantee a GOP victory this year then please feel free.

I don't see the overwhelming dissent out there. Working in healthcare, I hardly see any dissent at all at the program itself.

I'll tell you what I hear from our administrators who are dealing with the situation--these are your classic middle aged men and women--Pool and Patio types; they love it; they love that the government made a law that moves the needle one way or the other because the alternative for our hospital system is that the number of occupied beds is decreasing most months. Fewer patients means fewer dollars to put it bluntly. As defacto traffic manager for the system, I see the numbers. Our census is way down over the last five years. Meanwhile the public sector hospitals are skyrocketing; this is what you and I are paying for.

So if the poor who are apparently going to be served by it are for it, and at least one sector of the extremely affluent are on board, if the socially conscious liberals and moderates are for it, if the ideological left is for it, I don't think there are "overwhelmingly" large numbers that would be against it.

Thanks for your input.

Really?

According to a recent USA Today/Gallup poll, if the decision about whether this central feature of the law should stay or go was up to the American public, the mandate would surely be overturned. The February poll, which sampled more than 1,000 American adults over the age of 18, found that 72% of Americans believe the mandate to be unconstitutional.
Poll: Americans Oppose Healthcare Mandate « Health Insurance Navigator

According to LoneMoron, the mandate is the will of the people, because it passed through Congress and was signed by the President. WTF does that 72% know about the will of the people anyway?

 

[initforme]

"Then get your ASS off of here and DO IT.


Do what? What a LAME response. L A M E.

 

[SniperFire]

Why isn't the Occupy crowd up in arms about being forced to buy a product from a corporation?

They are still living off of dad's policy until they are 26.

 

[M14 Shooter]

"Why? Who are you and why are you special? "
There it is. So health care should be expensive and unaffordable.

I'm sorry -- you should try to respond to what I said, not what you want to respond to.
I asked you who you are why are are special, so much so that you should have access to health care.
How are you so entitled?
Please do try to answer the question.

 

[LoneLaugher]

They could argue that. I think they'd be freaking stupid to since the people overwhelmingly opposed it to begin with. But hey, if they want to guarantee a GOP victory this year then please feel free.

I don't see the overwhelming dissent out there. Working in healthcare, I hardly see any dissent at all at the program itself.

I'll tell you what I hear from our administrators who are dealing with the situation--these are your classic middle aged men and women--Pool and Patio types; they love it; they love that the government made a law that moves the needle one way or the other because the alternative for our hospital system is that the number of occupied beds is decreasing most months. Fewer patients means fewer dollars to put it bluntly. As defacto traffic manager for the system, I see the numbers. Our census is way down over the last five years. Meanwhile the public sector hospitals are skyrocketing; this is what you and I are paying for.

So if the poor who are apparently going to be served by it are for it, and at least one sector of the extremely affluent are on board, if the socially conscious liberals and moderates are for it, if the ideological left is for it, I don't think there are "overwhelmingly" large numbers that would be against it.

Thanks for your input.

Really?

According to a recent USA Today/Gallup poll, if the decision about whether this central feature of the law should stay or go was up to the American public, the mandate would surely be overturned. The February poll, which sampled more than 1,000 American adults over the age of 18, found that 72% of Americans believe the mandate to be unconstitutional.
Poll: Americans Oppose Healthcare Mandate « Health Insurance Navigator

Yawn. Half of them have been lied to. The other half are hoping for a more liberal solution. Yawn.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Okay, so people who can afford health insurance are special, those who cannot are not.

Now we're getting somewhere.

.