I was at a party with a bunch of Doctors last night....

[jillian]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link?

Are you too friggin' lazy to find the link yourself, or are you just afraid of the TRUTH.

That isn't how it works here...

you say it, you prove it.

thanks.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ranging from those who are starting on July 1st (like me) to those who have practiced for a few years to those that have practiced for a decade.

All anyone could talk about was ACA and it wasn't good.

The more experienced doctors were already making plans to leave medicine. I heard comments along the line of "this is the end of medicine." "The system is going to implode." "You will basically be working for peanuts in an environment that is going to be rife with litigation and no shields." "Your only hope is for Romney to win and get rid of this monstrosity, otherwise you should leave now."

Actually, I didn't hear any of this. I didn't hear anything good or bad about the ACA. Most people seemed unconcerned.

I believe they are unconcerned because no one knows what the true effect* of ACA is going to be. I had a good laugh at my local conservative talker guy trying to articulate what he thought this would do to patient care. He sounded like an idiot, because the things he was saying made absolutely no sense to someone familiar with patient care.

ACA could indeed be disastrous policy. It could also be great policy. I just don't know. And I don't think you, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Ed Schultz do either.

*Meaning the effect on health care delivery in this country and not the effect on individual tax payers in regard to cost.

It's called a "Normalcy bias", a lot of Jews in Germany in 1933 were also unconcerned.

 

[Valerie]

Of COURSE they do! They gotta blame somebody. Insurance is a monster, and it is one that is based on a faulty business model. We cannot keep going on the road we're on.

I would love to hear what everybody else's solutions are (unless, of course, they run along the lines of 'stick 'em on an ice floe and ship 'em out to sea').

By the way, this post was in response to Intense's. Unfortunately, another member threw himself in between.

There's always been State Medicaid...
Medicaid & CHIP Program Information | Medicaid.gov

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

 

[jillian]

EMTALA costs physicians billions in unreimbursed care - amednews.com

hey, shill, the above link deals with EMTLA... a 2001 law.

i seem to recall bush being president in 2001...

and EMTLA has nothing to do with ACA.

Thanks

 

[Katzndogz]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link?

I must have given those links 20 times already. Look it up.

 

[jillian]

Of COURSE they do! They gotta blame somebody. Insurance is a monster, and it is one that is based on a faulty business model. We cannot keep going on the road we're on.

I would love to hear what everybody else's solutions are (unless, of course, they run along the lines of 'stick 'em on an ice floe and ship 'em out to sea').

By the way, this post was in response to Intense's. Unfortunately, another member threw himself in between.

There's always been State Medicaid...
Medicaid & CHIP Program Information | Medicaid.gov

Health Care

its a federal issue, not a state issue.

the states can't afford it. the federal government can.

and the burden health care places on us is a federal issue because, aside from all other issues, more than 50% of our bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated medical expenses.

 

[JoeNormal]

Ranging from those who are starting on July 1st (like me) to those who have practiced for a few years to those that have practiced for a decade.

All anyone could talk about was ACA and it wasn't good.

The more experienced doctors were already making plans to leave medicine. I heard comments along the line of "this is the end of medicine." "The system is going to implode." "You will basically be working for peanuts in an environment that is going to be rife with litigation and no shields." "Your only hope is for Romney to win and get rid of this monstrosity, otherwise you should leave now."

Actually, I didn't hear any of this. I didn't hear anything good or bad about the ACA. Most people seemed unconcerned.

I believe they are unconcerned because no one knows what the true effect* of ACA is going to be. I had a good laugh at my local conservative talker guy trying to articulate what he thought this would do to patient care. He sounded like an idiot, because the things he was saying made absolutely no sense to someone familiar with patient care.

ACA could indeed be disastrous policy. It could also be great policy. I just don't know. And I don't think you, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, or Ed Schultz do either.

*Meaning the effect on health care delivery in this country and not the effect on individual tax payers in regard to cost.

AS with most people YOU have NO idea how health finances work but I do as I started a company that everyday helps at least 10,000 times a DAY health care providers know if they will be paid by Medicare! So I have access that YOU and many others don't!

The FACT is Obamacare was a tax but if Obamacare had been HONESTLY presented to the 6 votes JUST 6 that it passed by, IT would NOT have passed because most of the people that voted YES DIDN"T understand there were 21 NEW taxes being raised in Obamacare!
If they knew that some of the YES votes would have been NO!

The FACT that Obamacare will as Obama wants DESTROY 1,400 health insurance companies over time. Putting 400,000 people out of work AND eliminating over $100 billion a year in Federal/State/Local and property taxes!
Where will that $100 billion come from?

Finally MOST of those people that voted yes and I know YOU for sure think there were 50 million "uninsured"... THERE ARE NOT!!!
10 million are not citizens says the Census Bureau!
14 million are covered by Medicaid but said they were not and they are counted!
Finally now 17.5 million that for the majority NeVER added ONE cent to the $60 billion in
what hospitals call "uncompensated" services!
YET these people were counted.
So truly less then 8 million are in need of insurance... AND everyone of those doctors would agree.. One of the reason health insurance has increased more is the $600 billion a year in duplicate tests, specialist referrals anything these doctors do to protect their butts from lawsuits!
Tell you what you ask everyone of those doctors if they would favor a 10% tax on lawyers as Obamacare taxed tanning salons and the $10 billion of lawyers $100 billion income would have provided insurance for the truly UNINSURED!
They would love it!

Feel better?

I have some idea of how "health finances" work. I am probably one of the few posters on here that knows how the ICD 9 system works.....

The nice thing about being a physician is that I don't have to question my utility in the patient-care loop.

I can certainly imagine that some of the more tangential personnel, middle men, and ancillary people (Insurance) are sweating right now.

No kidding. It's almost comical to see administrators (in any field) work so hard to justify their existence.

 

[Buford]

This ruling leaves in place 21 tax increases that cost almost 700 BILLION. Of those taxes, 12 will affect familes earning less than $250,000 a year. Obama lied.

 

[healthmyths]

Of COURSE they do! They gotta blame somebody. Insurance is a monster, and it is one that is based on a faulty business model. We cannot keep going on the road we're on.

I would love to hear what everybody else's solutions are (unless, of course, they run along the lines of 'stick 'em on an ice floe and ship 'em out to sea').

By the way, this post was in response to Intense's. Unfortunately, another member threw himself in between.

LISTEN!!!
Lawyers gross $100 billion a year from the $600 billion a year in defensive medicine!
Tax lawyers like Obamacare did tanning salons 10%!
Tax hospitals 10% of their "uncompensated" care costs!
Tax insurance companies on total claim payments!

Take that nearly $45 billion in tax revenue and pay for each and every one of the
8.5 million TRULY uninsured that go to hospitals for care!
Each time the hospitals treat a "uninsured" they MuST send the claims to
the "UNCOMPENSATED HEALTH SERVICES INS. CO.. a private for profit contractor!
NO MORE then sending:
1) claims that are padded and passed to Medicare/ins.cos. sometimes 6,000% markups!
2) the $25 billion will then pay the hospitals/doctors for any "uninsured"!
3) the "uninsured" must REGISTER sign up // prove they can't afford!
And this will cover the truly 8.5 million that are uninsured!

THEN watch:
1) The tax on lawyers/hospitals/ins.cos. DECLINE in response to
a) Decline in the $600 billion defensive medicine.. the 6,000% markups to Medicare/...
b) watch the $60 billion in "uncompensated" services DECLINE!
c) watch Medicare's costs decline dramatically!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Of COURSE they do! They gotta blame somebody. Insurance is a monster, and it is one that is based on a faulty business model. We cannot keep going on the road we're on.

I would love to hear what everybody else's solutions are (unless, of course, they run along the lines of 'stick 'em on an ice floe and ship 'em out to sea').

By the way, this post was in response to Intense's. Unfortunately, another member threw himself in between.

There's always been State Medicaid...
Medicaid & CHIP Program Information | Medicaid.gov

Health Care

its a federal issue, not a state issue.

the states can't afford it. the federal government can.

and the burden health care places on us is a federal issue because, aside from all other issues, more than 50% of our bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated medical expenses.

Yes, the Federal government can afford it, it's flush with cash and credit.

What a fucking retard

 

[The T]

There's always been State Medicaid...
Medicaid & CHIP Program Information | Medicaid.gov

Health Care

its a federal issue, not a state issue.

the states can't afford it. the federal government can.

and the burden health care places on us is a federal issue because, aside from all other issues, more than 50% of our bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated medical expenses.

Yes, the Federal government can afford it, it's flush with cash and credit.

What a fucking retard

Credit downgrade which stands to happen again, deficit tripled under Obama...

 

[healthmyths]

AS with most people YOU have NO idea how health finances work but I do as I started a company that everyday helps at least 10,000 times a DAY health care providers know if they will be paid by Medicare! So I have access that YOU and many others don't!

The FACT is Obamacare was a tax but if Obamacare had been HONESTLY presented to the 6 votes JUST 6 that it passed by, IT would NOT have passed because most of the people that voted YES DIDN"T understand there were 21 NEW taxes being raised in Obamacare!
If they knew that some of the YES votes would have been NO!

The FACT that Obamacare will as Obama wants DESTROY 1,400 health insurance companies over time. Putting 400,000 people out of work AND eliminating over $100 billion a year in Federal/State/Local and property taxes!
Where will that $100 billion come from?

Finally MOST of those people that voted yes and I know YOU for sure think there were 50 million "uninsured"... THERE ARE NOT!!!
10 million are not citizens says the Census Bureau!
14 million are covered by Medicaid but said they were not and they are counted!
Finally now 17.5 million that for the majority NeVER added ONE cent to the $60 billion in
what hospitals call "uncompensated" services!
YET these people were counted.
So truly less then 8 million are in need of insurance... AND everyone of those doctors would agree.. One of the reason health insurance has increased more is the $600 billion a year in duplicate tests, specialist referrals anything these doctors do to protect their butts from lawsuits!
Tell you what you ask everyone of those doctors if they would favor a 10% tax on lawyers as Obamacare taxed tanning salons and the $10 billion of lawyers $100 billion income would have provided insurance for the truly UNINSURED!
They would love it!

Feel better?

I have some idea of how "health finances" work. I am probably one of the few posters on here that knows how the ICD 9 system works.....

The nice thing about being a physician is that I don't have to question my utility in the patient-care loop.

I can certainly imagine that some of the more tangential personnel, middle men, and ancillary people (Insurance) are sweating right now.

No kidding. It's almost comical to see administrators (in any field) work so hard to justify their existence.

YOU think it is FUNNY????
JUSTIFY existence? What the..f...k do you do? PUsh a broom? Buy pencils?
Come on... you obviously have NEVER dealt in how businesses work, finances, etc..
you are evidently just a totally ignoramous!

What is comical is how ignorant people are of how things like health care works!
IDIOT... know what costs HEALTH care administrators the most??? HIPAA the LAST effort to manage health CARE!
YOU idiots laugh but you have to stand on a line at your pharmacy painted just to keep you from (DUE to HIPAA!!!) from hearing something!
IDIOTS like you have NO idea what an INNOCENT" let's help the poor" bill passed in 1986 called EMTALA has exploded into a total $100 billion a year in WASTE at Medicare!
IDIOTS like you laugh monkey boys but again the last laugh will be on yOU!

 

[BDBoop]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link?

I must have given those links 20 times already. Look it up.

Then bookmark 'em. Obviously, they are Very Important.

 

[Valerie]

AS with most people YOU have NO idea how health finances work but I do as I started a company that everyday helps at least 10,000 times a DAY health care providers know if they will be paid by Medicare! So I have access that YOU and many others don't!

The FACT is Obamacare was a tax but if Obamacare had been HONESTLY presented to the 6 votes JUST 6 that it passed by, IT would NOT have passed because most of the people that voted YES DIDN"T understand there were 21 NEW taxes being raised in Obamacare!
If they knew that some of the YES votes would have been NO!

The FACT that Obamacare will as Obama wants DESTROY 1,400 health insurance companies over time. Putting 400,000 people out of work AND eliminating over $100 billion a year in Federal/State/Local and property taxes!
Where will that $100 billion come from?

Finally MOST of those people that voted yes and I know YOU for sure think there were 50 million "uninsured"... THERE ARE NOT!!!
10 million are not citizens says the Census Bureau!
14 million are covered by Medicaid but said they were not and they are counted!
Finally now 17.5 million that for the majority NeVER added ONE cent to the $60 billion in
what hospitals call "uncompensated" services!
YET these people were counted.
So truly less then 8 million are in need of insurance... AND everyone of those doctors would agree.. One of the reason health insurance has increased more is the $600 billion a year in duplicate tests, specialist referrals anything these doctors do to protect their butts from lawsuits!
Tell you what you ask everyone of those doctors if they would favor a 10% tax on lawyers as Obamacare taxed tanning salons and the $10 billion of lawyers $100 billion income would have provided insurance for the truly UNINSURED!
They would love it!

Feel better?

I have some idea of how "health finances" work. I am probably one of the few posters on here that knows how the ICD 9 system works.....

The nice thing about being a physician is that I don't have to question my utility in the patient-care loop.

I can certainly imagine that some of the more tangential personnel, middle men, and ancillary people (Insurance) are sweating right now.

No kidding. It's almost comical to see administrators (in any field) work so hard to justify their existence.

There will be plenty of work for administrators...

Job growth will likely be strongest in the primary care and home care fields, said Joanne Spetz, a professor at the Institute for Health Policy Studies at the University of California, San Francisco. The demand for health-care workers like dietitians, social workers and hospital administrators will also increase.

Other Winners

Another clear winner is the health-care technology sector, including those that help digitize, manage and secure health-care systems and medical records repositories, said John Birkmeyer, a University of Michigan professor of surgery and director of the university's center for health-care outcomes and policy.

IT services companies that can take health-care information and turn it into actionable data will benefit, Birkmeyer added. Expect to see a boom in job creation and greater competition in these sectors if the law is upheld, said Joe Flower, an independent health-care analyst and author of "Healthcare Beyond Reform: Doing it Right for Half the Cost." Support areas for primary care will also be hot.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jobs-in-health-care-to-expand-with-court-ruling.html

 

[bodecea]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link or lie.

 

[Big Black Dog]

My personal family doctor says that ObamaCare is not going to be a good thing in the long run.

 

[geauxtohell]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link?

The Doctor Patient Medical Association has released a new survey of about 700 doctors, and the results are bleak. Scary bleak. Among other dismal figures, Doctors' Attitudes on the Future of Medicine: What’s Wrong, Who’s to Blame, and What Will Fix It found that 83% of respondents are contemplating leaving the industry if Obamacare is fully implemented, owing to its disastrous projected consequences. Indeed, they openly blame the healthcare law for their industry's woes:

KEY FINDINGS

90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
61% say the system challenges their ETHICS
85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care
49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE
57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.

Thanks Obamacare: 83% of Doctors Surveyed Say They May Quit - Kate Hicks

I am sorry, but other than the DPMA's obvious guiding bias (founded in February of 2011):

Guiding Principles | Doctor Patient Medical Association

There poll is obviously biased as well:

Here is their methodology-

ABOUT THE SURVEY

The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. DPMAF obtained the office fax numbers of 36,000 doctors in active clinical practice, and 16, 227 faxes were successfully delivered. Doctors were asked to return their completed surveys by fax, or online at a web address included in the faxed copy. Browser rules prevented doctors from filing duplicate surveys, and respondents were asked to provide personal identification for verification. The response rate was 4.3% for a total of 699 completed surveys.

SURVEY RESPONDENTS

Doctors from 45 states responded, in addition to 130 who did not provide their geographical information.
Most are in solo or small group practice (81%) and office-based (89%) versus hospital-based (11%).
Most of the doctors are mid-career (77%) and have been in practice between 11 and 30 years.

First, the poll has a huge selection bias* as it is limited to physicians who have their own fax (Not a given. Many doctors don't have their own fax line in an office. For example, EM physicians work out of the department. The fax machines there are for patient business only.) This is evident by the fact that EM isn't represented as a group in the respondents:

DPMA Foundation : Physician Attitude Survey Demographics

So, the one specialty that is in the thick of this thing ("Patients getting all their care in the ED") isn't represented in this poll.

The survey also has an extremely low power. Of the 16K successful faxes they delivered, less than 5% bothered to respond. So could we conclude from that number that 95% of physicians are not worried about ACA? Probably not. However, it leads to a large degree of statistical doubt.

The "fax bias" is further borne out in the responses they got. 81% in solo or group practice?

So already, it is dubious to say that a large number of physicians will leave medicine..... What is more accurate is "a large number of physicians in solo or small group practice" will leave medicine. That is far from representative of the whole and it is done with a rather large selection bias (via the fax).

*The concepts I bolded "selection bias" and "power" are true statistical data properties and you can double check my logic on that.

 

[bodecea]

83% of doctors said they would seriously consider leaving medicine.

Link?

I must have given those links 20 times already. Look it up.

Prove you've linked it in the past 20 times or that's a lie too.

 

[geauxtohell]

Link?

Are you too friggin' lazy to find the link yourself, or are you just afraid of the TRUTH.

the responsibility is on the person who makes the claim, not the person who asks for proof. Pisses me off when either party pulls that shit in here... making a claim with no link to back it up, then people ask for a link and they're told go find it themselves.

We don't agree on politics, but we do on this.

Spot on.

 

[jillian]

Feel better?

I have some idea of how "health finances" work. I am probably one of the few posters on here that knows how the ICD 9 system works.....

The nice thing about being a physician is that I don't have to question my utility in the patient-care loop.

I can certainly imagine that some of the more tangential personnel, middle men, and ancillary people (Insurance) are sweating right now.

No kidding. It's almost comical to see administrators (in any field) work so hard to justify their existence.

YOU think it is FUNNY????
JUSTIFY existence? What the..f...k do you do? PUsh a broom? Buy pencils?
Come on... you obviously have NEVER dealt in how businesses work, finances, etc..
you are evidently just a totally ignoramous!

What is comical is how ignorant people are of how things like health care works!
IDIOT... know what costs HEALTH care administrators the most??? HIPAA the LAST effort to manage health CARE!
YOU idiots laugh but you have to stand on a line at your pharmacy painted just to keep you from (DUE to HIPAA!!!) from hearing something!
IDIOTS like you have NO idea what an INNOCENT" let's help the poor" bill passed in 1986 called EMTALA has exploded into a total $100 billion a year in WASTE at Medicare!
IDIOTS like you laugh monkey boys but again the last laugh will be on yOU!

^^^^^^^^^

lookie... the insurance company shill is getting testy.