I Like Guns

[Sodafin]

That's fine - if you don't have a case to present, let's see if someone else does.

btw, It's MannERheim.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Over the last year gun sales have soared and murder has plummeted.

 

[The Rabbi]

Over the last year gun sales have soared and murder has plummeted.

It doesnt matter. To cretins like Sodafin, guns will always be the problem. If they simply applied the same logic to anything else its absurdity would be apparent. No one needs an SUV. SUVs account for a large number of accidents. Therefore we need to ban SUVs. Etc etc.
As I said, gun control is the most debunked liberal myth out there. No one in America believes it, even those in favor of it.

 

[Citizen]

The government should impose a 2.00 per bullet tax. Such a tax would curd the murder rate in the USA and reduce crime.

It would not reduce crime, and there are many of us that already own thousands of rounds of various calibers.

Personally, I simply made a list of each firearm I own, calculated how much ammo I believed I would need for each, then purchased it over a period of time, so I no longer have to rely on the present supply.

Also I build my own muzzle loaders and have a reasonable amount of black powder and lead.

I already have enough firearms and ammo to outfit my whole family, so the only problem I have with the scarcity of ammo now is that it limits the amount I can shoot without depleting my supply.

 

[Hemperor]

America's Ultra-Secret Microwave Robot Weapon By MARK THOMPSON TIME Magazine 1/19/03

DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE photo - HOW IT WORKS: (1) THE PAYLOAD. Tomahawk cruise missiles could carry microwave weapons; (2) THE DAMAGE. The electrical surge can fry the electronics needed to deliver enemy weapons of mass destruction

Every war has its wonder weapon. In Afghanistan, it was the Predator, the unmanned drone that would loiter, invisibly, over the battlefield before unleashing a Hellfire missile on an unsuspecting target. The Gulf War marked the debut of precision-guided munitions, and in Vietnam helicopters came of age. World War II gave us the horror of nuclear weapons, and World War I introduced the tank. If there's a second Gulf War, get ready to meet the high-power microwave.

HPMs are man-made lightning bolts crammed into cruise missiles. They could be key weapons for targeting Saddam Hussein's stockpiles of biological and chemical weapons. HPMs fry the sophisticated computers and electronic gear necessary to produce, protect, store and deliver such agents. The powerful electromagnetic pulses can travel into deeply buried bunkers through ventilation shafts, plumbing and antennas. But unlike conventional explosives, they won't spew deadly agents into the air, where they could poison Iraqi civilians or advancing U.S. troops.

The HPM is a top-secret program, and the Pentagon wants to keep it that way. Senior military officials have dropped hints about a new, classified weapon for Iraq but won't provide details. Still, information about HPMs, first successfully tested in 1999, has trickled out. "High-power microwave technology is ready for the transition to active weapons in the U.S. military," Air Force Colonel Eileen Walling wrote in a rare, unclassified report on the program three years ago. "There are signs that microwave weapons will represent a revolutionary concept for warfare, principally because microwaves are designed to incapacitate equipment rather than humans."

HPMs can unleash in a flash as much electrical power—2 billion watts or more—as the Hoover Dam generates in 24 hours. Capacitors aboard the missile discharge an energy pulse—moving at the speed of light and impervious to bad weather—in front of the missile as it nears its target. That pulse can destroy any electronics within 1,000 ft. of the flash by short-circuiting internal electrical connections, thereby wrecking memory chips, ruining computer motherboards and generally screwing up electronic components not built to withstand such powerful surges. It's similar to what can happen to your computer or TV when lightning strikes nearby and a tidal wave of electricity rides in through the wiring.

Most of this "e-bomb" development is taking place at Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, N.M. The Directed Energy Directorate at Kirtland has been studying how to deliver varying but predictable electrical pulses to inflict increasing levels of harm: to deny, degrade, damage or destroy, to use the Pentagon's parlance. HPM engineers call it "dial-a-hurt." But that hurt can cause unintended problems: beyond taking out a tyrant's silicon chips, HPMs could destroy nearby heart pacemakers and other life-critical electrical systems in hospitals or aboard aircraft (that's why the U.S. military is putting them only on long-range cruise missiles). The U.S. used a more primitive form of these weapons—known as soft bombs—against Yugoslavia and in the first Gulf War, when cruise missiles showered miles of thin carbon fibers over electrical facilities, creating massive short circuits that shut down electrical power.

Although the Pentagon prefers not to use experimental weapons on the battlefield, "the world intervenes from time to time," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says. "And you reach in there and take something out that is still in a developmental stage, and you might use it."

Air Force chief: Test [death ray] weapons on testy U.S. mobs

CNN dot com
09/12/2006
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Nonlethal weapons such as high-power microwave devices should be used on American citizens in crowd-control situations before being used on the battlefield, the Air Force secretary said Tuesday.

The object is basically public relations. Domestic use would make it easier to avoid questions from others about possible safety considerations, said Secretary Michael Wynne.

"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne. "(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."

What the f---???

I guess we should test F-22s against US civilian airliners then, how about slamming some Tomahawk missiles into the suburbs, just to see if we can hit a car in a driveway -- or how about testing cluster bombs at a Little League baseball game or maybe even a MOAB or Daisy Cutter on a crowd at an NFL game?

 

[Missourian]

Rabbi -

You have opinions.

I have numbers.

# Higher household gun ownership correlates with higher rates of homicides, suicides, and unintentional shootings (Harvard Injury Control Center).

#Gun death rates are 7 times higher in the states with the highest compared with the lowest household gun ownership. (Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 2009).

Or let me guess - joethegunman.com has "rebutted" Harvard as well!

[FONT=arial,arial]These are the 13 states with the most pro-Second Amendment laws according to the Brady Center (Oklahoma being the most pro-Second Amendment in the nation) with total firearm murders from 2007 according to the FBI and population from the Census Bureau:[/FONT]​

----------State-----------------------------# of Firearm Homicides-----------Population​

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

• Arkansas ----------------------130 ------------2,810,872
• [FONT=arial,arial]Idaho -------------------------------------------------25 ---------------------1,466,465[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]New Mexico ---------------------------------------81 ---------------------1,954,599[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]South Dakota ---------------------------------------4 -----------------------781,919[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]West Virginia --------------------------------------37 --------------------1,818,470[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Mississippi ---------------------------------------119 ---------------------2,910,540[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Alaska -----------------------------------------------21 --------------------- 670,053[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Louisiana ------------------------------------------455----------------------4,287,768[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Missouri -------------------------------------------247 ---------------------5,842,713[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]North Dakota ----------------------------------------3 -----------------------635,867[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Utah ---------------------------------------------------38 --------------------2,550,063[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Kentucky ------------------------------------------131 --------------------4,206,074[/FONT]
• [FONT=arial,arial]Oklahoma -------------------------------- --------132 --------------------3,579,212[/FONT]

And the 13 strictest gun control states according to the Brady Center (California being the strictest in the nation) with total firearm murders from 2007 according to the FBI and population from the Census Bureau:

• California -----------------------1,605-----36,457,549
• New Jersey ----------------------260-------8,724,560
• Connecticut ----------------------57 -------3,504,809
• Massachusetts ------------------114 -------6,437,193
• Maryland ------------------------414------- 5,615,727
• New York ------------------------500 -----19,306,183
• Rhode Island -------------------- --9 ------ 1,067,610
• Hawaii -----------------------------3 -------1,285,498
• Illinois ---------------------------343* -----12,831,970
• Pennsylvania ---------------------527 ------12,440,621
• Michigan -------------------------444 ------10,095,643
• Delaware--------------------------22 ---------853,476
• North Carolina--------------------369 --------8,856,505

* incomplete data received by the FBI


The District of Columbia is not listed on the Brady Center ranking list but it did have the strictest gun control in the nation in 2007:

• District of Columbia-----------------181--------581,530

So here is the break down for firearm homicides per number of citizens per state plus the District of Columbia with Washington D.C. being the most dangerous place to live with 1 out of every 3,212 residents murdered by firearms and Hawaii being the safest with 1 out of every 428,499 residents murdered by firearms.


The number listed is the population divided by the total firearm homicides to render 1 homicide per (X) number of residents. (Red are Strict Gun Control, Blue are Pro-gun)

1. District of Columbia -----------1 / 3,212
2. Louisiana ---------------------1 / 9,423
3. Maryland ---------------------1 / 13,564
4. Arkansas ---------------------1 / 21,622
5. California ---------------------1 / 22,714
6. Michigan ---------------------1 / 22,737
7. Pennsylvania -----------------1 / 23,606
8. Missouri ----------------------1 / 23,654
9. North Carolina ----------------1 / 24,001
10. New Mexico ------------------1 / 24,130
11. Mississippi --------------------1 / 24,458
12. Oklahoma --------------------1 / 25,115
13. Alaska -----------------------1 / 31,907
14. Kentucky ---------------------1 / 32,107
15. New Jersey -------------------1 / 33,556
16. Illinois ------------------------1 / 37,410
17. New York ---------------------1 / 38,612
18. Delaware ---------------------1 / 38,794
19. West Virgina ------------------1 / 49,147
20. Massachusetts ----------------1 / 56,466
21. Idaho -------------------------1 / 58,658
22. Connecticut -------------------1 / 61,487
23. Utah --------------------------1 / 67,106
24. Rhode Island -------------------1 / 118,623
25. South Dakota ------------------1 / 195,479
26. North Dakota -------------------1 / 211,955
27. Hawaii -------------------------1 / 428,499

Bottom line, stricter firearm laws have no effect on firearm homicides.


That is why the Brady Center uses violent crime or firearm deaths instead of actual firearm homicides even though the firearm homicides are provided by the FBI online every year.






Link to FBI Stats Table 20 - Crime in the United States 2007

Link to Brady Center state rankings list http://www.stategunlaws.org/xshare/p...d_rankings.pdf

Population from the U.S. Census Bureau State and County QuickFacts

Wikipedia Firearm Homicides for the District of Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.


This blog is entirely my own work and research...reproduce it freely in support of the 2nd amendment.

 

[Missourian]

Over the last year gun sales have soared and murder has plummeted.

I just posted this in another thread...http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...as-gun-and-ammo-sales-reach-record-highs.html

 

[Sodafin]

Missourian -

If you had actually read the Harvard study, you would have noticed that one of the key factors is people travelling from one state to another to buy a gun, and then returning with it to their own state, and thus avoiding the tough laws in their own state.

The bottom line is - high levels of gun ownership means a high homicide rate.

 

[The Rabbi]

Missourian -

If you had actually read the Harvard study, you would have noticed that one of the key factors is people travelling from one state to another to buy a gun, and then returning with it to their own state, and thus avoiding the tough laws in their own state.

The bottom line is - high levels of gun ownership means a high homicide rate.

Sodafin, if you had a fucking clue you would know that that is impossible legally.

 

[Sodafin]

Over the last year gun sales have soared and murder has plummeted.

It doesnt matter. To cretins like Sodafin, guns will always be the problem. If they simply applied the same logic to anything else its absurdity would be apparent. No one needs an SUV. SUVs account for a large number of accidents. Therefore we need to ban SUVs. Etc etc.
As I said, gun control is the most debunked liberal myth out there. No one in America believes it, even those in favor of it.

The point of an SUV is a method of transport.

The point of an 9 mm Uzi is to take human lives.

We have laws to control both - most sensible people understand quite well that the risk of having both in society needs to be balanced against the purpose and benefits such items bring. Uzis endanger the lives of people who live in the same house - they deliver no perceivable benefit.

The same is not true of SUV's.

 

[Missourian]

Missourian -

If you had actually read the Harvard study, you would have noticed that one of the key factors is people travelling from one state to another to buy a gun, and then returning with it to their own state, and thus avoiding the tough laws in their own state.

The bottom line is - high levels of gun ownership means a high homicide rate.

I have read the study, and it is flawed.

Rabbi is absolutely correct.

Example: As a resident of the state of Missouri, I can only buy a firearm directly in the state of Missouri...if I buy a weapon in another state I must have it transferred to a dealer in Missouri with a Federal Firearm License (FFL) and pay that FFL a transfer fee.

That goes for private party transfers as well...Federal Law prohibits private firearm sales to non-residents of the state.


No FFL holder would sell a firearm to a non-resident directly.

No private gun owner would sell a firearm directly to a non-resident.
A conviction for illegal trafficking of firearms is a felony offense resulting in revocation of 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[Missourian]

Missourian -

The bottom line is - high levels of gun ownership means a high homicide rate.

I just proved that statement to be false.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-outdoors/99212-i-like-guns-2.html#post1890706​

 

[Sodafin]

Missouri -

So it is not true that an enormous number of weapons used by the Mexican mafia originated in the United States?

If it is true - and I think we both know it is - why do you assume that the same does not happen between US states with different laws?

"I would dare say that Mexico has some of the strictest regulations about gun ownership in all the world, and we're right next to a country ... that has some of the easiest ones," said Lt. Col. Raúl Manzano Vélez, director of the military's civilian gun sales. "That creates a huge vacuum between the countries and feeds weapons trafficking."

Mexico: Gun controls undermined by U.S. - USATODAY.com

 

[The Rabbi]

Over the last year gun sales have soared and murder has plummeted.

It doesnt matter. To cretins like Sodafin, guns will always be the problem. If they simply applied the same logic to anything else its absurdity would be apparent. No one needs an SUV. SUVs account for a large number of accidents. Therefore we need to ban SUVs. Etc etc.
As I said, gun control is the most debunked liberal myth out there. No one in America believes it, even those in favor of it.

The point of an SUV is a method of transport.

The point of an 9 mm Uzi is to take human lives.

We have laws to control both - most sensible people understand quite well that the risk of having both in society needs to be balanced against the purpose and benefits such items bring. Uzis endanger the lives of people who live in the same house - they deliver no perceivable benefit.

The same is not true of SUV's.

Strange. I am in the process of buying a 9mm Uzi and it has never taken a life, despite existing for nearly 30 years.
In fact, there is no NFA-registered weapon that has taken a life since 1936, with the exception of one that belonged to a police officer.
Please keep spinning your fantasies. They are amusingly naive.

 

[Sodafin]

Missourian -

The bottom line is - high levels of gun ownership means a high homicide rate.

I just proved that statement to be false.

No, not at all -

Firstly, taking raw sets of data from three different sources is a far less reliable way of drawing conclusions than working from a single set of data which has been compiled for this purpose - and we both know that data exists and what conclusions it has drawn.

Secondly, as I have explained, not all guns end up in the state in which they were purchased, hence stats need to take the movement of guns and illegal ownership of guns into account. Harvard did this - your stats do not appear too.

Thirdly, while I appreciate your focus here is the US, it is not the only country on earth, and there are excellent studies which compare the success of laws in different countries which totally refute your point beyond any doubt at all.

 

[Sodafin]

Strange. I am in the process of buying a 9mm Uzi and it has never taken a life, despite existing for nearly 30 years.
In fact, there is no NFA-registered weapon that has taken a life since 1936, with the exception of one that belonged to a police officer.
Please keep spinning your fantasies. They are amusingly naive.

So what? So if I smoke 30 cigarettes a day and don't get cancer, that proves smoking is not linked to cancer?

Of course not. What we are looking here are facts, numbers and trends - not only your personal experience.

I have to say - this is some of the weakest posting on this topic I've come across in a long time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Strange. I am in the process of buying a 9mm Uzi and it has never taken a life, despite existing for nearly 30 years.
In fact, there is no NFA-registered weapon that has taken a life since 1936, with the exception of one that belonged to a police officer.
Please keep spinning your fantasies. They are amusingly naive.

So what? So if I smoke 30 cigarettes a day and don't get cancer, that proves smoking is not linked to cancer?

Of course not. What we are looking here are facts, numbers and trends - not only your personal experience.

I have to say - this is some of the weakest posting on this topic I've come across in a long time.

You're the one who claims that the purpose of a 9mm UZI is to take lives. Obviously if there is no UZI that has taken a life in this country then either they are all faulty or your thesis sucks. I'd bet on the latter.

 

[slackjawed]

I would like to see a study that makes a correlation between homocide and illegal gun ownership. Illegal gun ownership or possession of guns by those that are not legally allowed to have guns is simply not affected by laws that might be passed, that's why it's illegal gun ownership.

 

[Sodafin]

You're the one who claims that the purpose of a 9mm UZI is to take lives. Obviously if there is no UZI that has taken a life in this country then either they are all faulty or your thesis sucks. I'd bet on the latter.

And you would be wrong.

The longtime police chief of a small Western Massachusetts town was one of three people indicted today on involuntary manslaughter charges for the death of an 8-year-old boy who fatally shot himself with a machine gun at a weapons exposition in Westfield.

Pelham Police Chief Edward B. Fleury owns COP Firearms & Training, which cosponsored the Machine Gun Shoot on Oct. 26 at the Westfield Sportsman's Club. Christopher Bizilj died while firing a 9mm Micro Uzi that recoiled and fatally shot him in the head.

Police chief indicted after Uzi death of boy, 8 - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

 

[The Rabbi]

Pulled that out of your ass I guess.

That's called an accident, btw. I realize it never happens with cars, ladders, swimming pools, etc etc.