I am DISGUSTED.

[irosie91]

You got that ass backwards!

backward-------ok You may not have any idea what
you are talking about----BUT YOU CAN DEBATE IT ANYWAY

 

[irosie91]

That's one reason that torture is not for amateurs. There are hundreds of ways to encourage people to talk. And if you can't even begin to DEFINE IT -- why are you so certain that it should be regularly used in common criminal cases?

Just the fact the END GOAL of torture is to encourage accused people to talk is a straight violation of the Bill of Rights and your "right to remain silent". SOOOOOO -- come back when you rationalize that little detail away...

When did I say that I cannot define it? Cops encourage people to talk
all the time ----without a "water-board" and without danger of "violation
of the Bill of Rights"...... or----with some level of confidence that they will
not be so accused. Are you sure you want to claim that encouraging a
person to talk IS A VIOLATION OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS?

 

[flan327]

I am quite familiar with the Constitution
In case you haven’t heard, there is a lot more in there than the Second Amendment

You are a TYPICAL RIGHT WING PERSON
Scared of the TRUTH

 

[BlackSand]

you create your own parameters for your OWN CONVENIENCE-----you have not defined "torture" and you ASSUME that the 'suspect' has not been
legally PROCESSED----ie arraigned and convicted YET. Try to open
your mind ---a little

.

There is no need to torture someone by any definition or method unless you are attempting to hinder the Free Exercise of their Right to Remain Silent.
That's not a matter of convenience ... And it is Unconstitutional to hinder someone's Free Exercise of a Constitutionally Protected Right.

My mind is open ... There are limits as to what the Federal Government can do.
The times when those limits are ignored or circumvented ... That is an attempt to grasp for what may be convenient.

You got it backwards.

.​

 

[irosie91]

.

There is no need to torture someone by any definition or method unless you are attempting to hinder the Free Exercise of their Right to Remain Silent.
That's not a matter of convenience ... And it is Unconstitutional to hinder someone's Free Exercise of a Constitutionally Protected Right.

My mind is open ... There are limits as to what the Federal Government can do.
The times when those limits are ignored or circumvented ... That is an attempt to grasp for what may be convenient.

You got it backwards.

.​

you are a barrel of laughs

 

[BlackSand]

you are a barrel of laughs

.

Glad to be of service ... If you would like to discuss the topic, knock yourself out.

.​

 

[irosie91]

.

Glad to be of service ... If you would like to discuss the topic, knock yourself out.​

.​

.

Glad to be of service ... If you would like to discuss the topic, knock yourself out.

.​

sure thing----I have lied many times to get people to TELL THE TRUTH---
(well ---in my field of endeavor) ----I saved them---I did not violate their
rights.

 

[BlackSand]

sure thing----I have lied many times to get people to TELL THE TRUTH---
(well ---in my field of endeavor) ----I saved them---I did not violate their
rights.

.

You lying to someone does not mean they have to answer you ... And never will.
Lucky for you a lot of criminals are stupid ... And you don't mind lying to get what you want.

The topic is about abuses and torture by law enforcement.
I never suggested the Government or agents thereof have not overstepped their bounds and violated rights.

Why are you talking to me about something that doesn't address anything I have posted ...
And by your own estimation doesn't meet the criteria of the Topic?

.​

 

[SavannahMann]

In obvious cases. In the case I am speaking about, the police were dealing with a criminal thug with a long rap sheet dating back to his teens, he had served prison time for a similar crime, and his DNA was found on the victim’s shoes.

I know you libs err on the side of protecting lowlife criminals, even if it means an innocent woman will die, but I err on the side of saving the life the criminal is about to take.

And as far as the woman already being dead, they didn’t know that at the time.

Who determines which cases are obvious? Alan West?

 

[flan327]

sure thing----I have lied many times to get people to TELL THE TRUTH---
(well ---in my field of endeavor) ----I saved them---I did not violate their
rights.

Prove it

 

[rightwinger]

You are a TYPICAL RIGHT WING PERSON
Scared of the TRUTH

You caught me
I am USMBs predominant rightwing poster

 

[skye]

You caught me
I am USMBs predominant rightwing poster

I wouldn't say that.....LOL

 

[flacaltenn]

When did I say that I cannot define it?

It being torture. You did that PRECISELY when you took a complete detour around my question of "who ya gonna get to be a professional torturer? At post #170.

I did not do my studies with the GRAND INQUISITOR. I am still seeking
a definition of "TORTURE"

And I never got THAT question answered and you SAID "still seeking a definition".

Cops encourage people to talk
all the time ----without a "water-board" and without danger of "violation
of the Bill of Rights"...... or----with some level of confidence that they will
not be so accused. Are you sure you want to claim that encouraging a
person to talk IS A VIOLATION OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS?

Have you heard of Miranda rights? Or the Miranda decision? If they inform a person of their Miranda rights WHICH IS REQUIRED -- one choice is to NOT TALK AT ALL.

The others are to let your LAWYER speak for you. Or have your lawyer decide what your official statements are. Any time cops succeed at getting people to talk -- ALL THREE of these options are in play.


That why torture should NEVER be an option in criminal/civil cases. And since that IS THE LAW OF LAND - there are not a LOT "qualified" torturers in the Phone book or on Angies' list for hire. The only ones you'll find there -- you probably dont want to hire if they are into bondage/masochism.

 

[irosie91]

It being torture. You did that PRECISELY when you took a complete detour around my question of "who ya gonna get to be a professional torturer? At post #170.



And I never got THAT question answered and you SAID "still seeking a definition".



Have you heard of Miranda rights? Or the Miranda decision? If they inform a person of their Miranda rights WHICH IS REQUIRED -- one choice is to NOT TALK AT ALL.

The others are to let your LAWYER speak for you. Or have your lawyer decide what your official statements are. Any time cops succeed at getting people to talk -- ALL THREE of these options are in play.


That why torture should NEVER be an option in criminal/civil cases. And since that IS THE LAW OF LAND - there are not a LOT "qualified" torturers in the Phone book or on Angies' list for hire. The only ones you'll find there -- you probably dont want to hire if they are into bondage/masochism.

when it comes to the topic "HOW HUMANS MANIPULATE EACH OTHER" ---aka "sociopathy 101" you come up blank

 

[ClaireH]

Most of you pretending to be heroes of "no torture ever" are ESPECIALLY hypocritical today. Same posters badgering people about torture have a LONG documented history of ignoring when convenient to their political goals.

You can torture people in hundreds of ways. ALL of them DOCUMENTED to be effective. Sleep deprivation, repetitive vile sounds, lying to them about the state of their relatiives, -- the list is endless. And A LOT OF YOU ignored these uses or cheered them on.

Waco siege - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As the siege wore on, two factions developed within the FBI,[39] one believing negotiation to be the answer, the other, force. Increasingly aggressive techniques were used to try to force the Branch Davidians out. For instance, sleep deprivation of the inhabitants through all-night broadcasts of recordings of jet planes, pop music, Buddhist chanting, and the screams of rabbits being slaughtered.

#1 pop hit on the FBI psych operation team was "These boots are Made for Walking" which is certainly capable of inflicting pain and confusion after the first hour of continuous play. On the more serious side -- would be using armored vehicles to pump tear gas into an underground kitchen where most of children were being kept. No gas masks that small on hand.

Then there's your support of the torture of many of the J6th prisoners kept in a rotting DC. jail that MOST admit should have been condemned and razed a decade ago. Kept in SOLITARY FOR MONTHS. No contact even with legal reps. Charges CHANGED, added, subtracted monthly so not many court dates because their court attys cant keep up. Guards physically abusing them and NOT caring for their wounds. Neglecting drugs they've been prescribed. Even Pocahantas and Bernie have spoken out about these HORRID conditions that DO AMOUNT to torture.

And the same FBI that ran Waco into oblivion shot and killed a mother thru a gap in the door curtain while she was holding her infant. ALL MEANT to TORTURE the remaining hold-outs. Who already KNEW other family members had been killed. All for an entrapment sting SET-UP by the FBI and BATF.

Be less hypocritical. At least I'm aware that MAYBE in some horrendous national emergency -- we might NOT want to take non-lethal torture off the table. But even if was because a nuke suitcase was somewhere in NYC --- the people MAKING the decision would have to stand trial and justify.

From what I’ve been reading, most of this discussion is going to be a mute point soon, not soon enough however but soon up. We will have chips implanted, either on a temporary basis or long-term for violent felons specifically repeat violent offenders, to determine who is thinking of committing a violent crime and even who will likely commit crimes in the future. Now, I don’t know about you folks but that is proof enough we are “living in the future” it just hasn’t been released yet on a grand scale basis. It’s coming likely starting outside of US. Tweaking is undergoing with false memories and such needing to be ironed out.

 

[flacaltenn]

From what I’ve been reading, most of this discussion is going to be a mute point soon, not soon enough however but soon up. We will have chips implanted, either on a temporary basis or long-term for violent felons specifically repeat violent offenders, to determine who is thinking of committing a violent crime and even who will likely commit crimes in the future. Now, I don’t know about you folks but that is proof enough we are “living in the future” it just hasn’t been released yet on a grand scale basis. It’s coming likely starting outside of US. Tweaking is undergoing with false memories and such needing to be ironed out.

There is bunch of kinda scary "pre-crime" work being done on brain patterns, but it's not likely to succeed due to the immense difficulty of repeating the same results on the same person. Or even IDENTIFYING A SPECIFIC crime the person "has in mind".

It's "The Matrix" kind of technology that isn't gonna become part of the legal system under our CURRENT law and justice system. More likely to occur would DISRUPTION of certain brain activities that LEAD to anger, paranoia, violence. A kind of emotional castration that psych "pros" do now with sketchy pharmaceuticals but TAILORED to the individuals' thought processes.

 

[flacaltenn]

Defining torture, is rationalizing torture.

Not really. When there are hundreds of ways to torment/torture somebody it's super "study-worthy" to HAVE a definition for legal/psychiatric purposes.

Otherwise the amateur torturers will just walk out of court or mental institutions. The BROAD definition without TRYING to list the 1000 ways -- is already codified. The 1000 ways to torture makes the law interesting.

18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions​

• U.S. Code
• Notes

prev | next
As used in this chapter—
(1)
“torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2)“severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A)
the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B)
the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C)
the threat of imminent death; or
(D)
the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and

----------------------------------------------

That IS the section of US Code that OUTLAWS torture. At least "domestically" and to a large part by our military and Intel Community.

 

[BlackSand]

There is bunch of kinda scary "pre-crime" work being done on brain patterns, but it's not likely to succeed due to the immense difficulty of repeating the same results on the same person. Or even IDENTIFYING A SPECIFIC crime the person "has in mind".

It's "The Matrix" kind of technology that isn't gonna become part of the legal system under our CURRENT law and justice system. More likely to occur would DISRUPTION of certain brain activities that LEAD to anger, paranoia, violence. A kind of emotional castration that psych "pros" do now with sketchy pharmaceuticals but TAILORED to the individuals' thought processes.

.

We've already crossed the threshold.

They started it with Hate Crime Legislation, which doesn't change the crime at all.
Murder is still murder, the victim is still dead, and the perpetrator is still guilty of the crime.

It only manages to make Hatred a punishable offense ... They are already punishing people for thoughts.

.​

 

[ClaireH]

There is bunch of kinda scary "pre-crime" work being done on brain patterns, but it's not likely to succeed due to the immense difficulty of repeating the same results on the same person. Or even IDENTIFYING A SPECIFIC crime the person "has in mind".

It's "The Matrix" kind of technology that isn't gonna become part of the legal system under our CURRENT law and justice system. More likely to occur would DISRUPTION of certain brain activities that LEAD to anger, paranoia, violence. A kind of emotional castration that psych "pros" do now with sketchy pharmaceuticals but TAILORED to the individuals' thought processes.

Indeed multiple glitches, but once humans incorporate robotic parts beyond bones/muscles etc. (and many people will fully accept these parts for longevity while others not so much) advancements currently being developed with AI will be incorporated into those humans.

If a person could increase the current average lifespan say fivefold to 500, or even tenfold to 1000 years, we would still not have enough time to learn one specific topic throughly, seriously crazy info available, some even legit. Thinking more about this, that factor alone will encourage many to “go robotic” if they can afford to do so and particularly with brain skills.

 

[irosie91]

There is bunch of kinda scary "pre-crime" work being done on brain patterns, but it's not likely to succeed due to the immense difficulty of repeating the same results on the same person. Or even IDENTIFYING A SPECIFIC crime the person "has in mind".

It's "The Matrix" kind of technology that isn't gonna become part of the legal system under our CURRENT law and justice system. More likely to occur would DISRUPTION of certain brain activities that LEAD to anger, paranoia, violence. A kind of emotional castration that psych "pros" do now with sketchy pharmaceuticals but TAILORED to the individuals' thought processes.

an interesting but, BY NO MEANS, new idea. The ID of criminals was
really big approximately towards the end of the 19th century. Treatment
of that which is NOW called "anti-social personality disorder"--(the erst-
while "sociopathy" ) via analysis, chemistry, surgery, behavior
modification--------HAS NEVAH WORKED OUT, In fact, neither has the
Identification thereof-----other than by actual prior behavior as a possible
predictor----.
AS TO CHIPS------nevah... Remember phrenology?