How Pelosi Got The Votes

[hylandrdet]

So, here we are. Pelosi got the votes to pass ObamaCare. Some time ago, I started asking around - because I was curious, and because I can - about how those votes were being 'achieved'.

Here is stuff I know, that I haven't seen in the media. Now, I appreciate that the rabids will scream for links but I don't link to the media to back up facts - cuz I know the media and the media and facts are not comfortable bedfellows. Truthfully, I don't care whether people believe me or not, but wait and watch.

The vote count was 219 yes. They needed 216. Where did those few extra votes come from? Well, maybe from here....

In the San Joaquin Valley of California, the Federal Government turned off the water to the farmland - America's breadbasket - to 'save' the smelt fish. Remember that?The farmers vs the fish? The fish won, the farmers lost and the valley is dying. 40% unemployment and huge drops in food production. Well, guess who voted 'yes' - against his better judgement? Congressman Devon Nunes. Guess what happened then? The Federal Government turned the water up by 20% instead of the 5% they had previously stated. 2 votes bought and paid for.

The Immigration issue is the other one. Obama promised the amnesty in return for healthcare votes. I commented on this a few days ago. Look at the timing of the Amnesty march in DC. 2 votes bought - IOU by Obama.

Now, I know, as most reasonable people know, that this is nothing new. It is 'politics as usual'. But.... given that Obama said he was going to clean up Washington, and that his Presidency would be open and transparent, with no special interests, no lobbyists, no back room deals etc.....

Putting the healthcare thing to one side.... and trying to leave the partisanship at the door..... My questions are:

Is it not time that that our congressmen voted in accordance with the view of their district? Is it not time that we said it is no longer acceptable to blackmail, force, bribe or cajole votes from congressmen who were elected by us to serve us?

I am tired of the 'we've always done it this way', 'you're just pissed cuz you lost' and the constant shit from both sides. I just think we as Americans deserve better. I guess I'm still young enough to be idealistic along with my usual cynicism.

Yes it time to stop this...

On their time, not ours!!!

We forgot how the banruptcy reform bill came about, didn't we?

Eventually, we'll have a republican congress and WH; can you promise that they won't act the same? No you can't...

Food for thought.

 

[Care4all]

I know I felt sick inside and out when the medicare Pill Bill AND the Bankruptcy reform bills were passed/shoved through/with perks for the industries, so I can thoroughly understand how the opposition to this bill must feel....it ain't pretty....if anyone wants to be honest about it....

 

[Care4all]

If you fold and give up your own beliefs and convictions through intimidation, then you don't deserve to be there. Vote them out.

that's ONLY if you believe they changed their votes due to intimidation, verses persuasion that lead them to believe, that under the present circumstances faced, it was the right measure and baby step to take at this point.

I do NOT believe for one NANOSECOND, that we can possibly know, otherwise.....

other than taking a partisan take on it.... your side saying it is intimidation, with no PROOF.

My side of the aisle saying that it was valid persuasion, with no PROOF!

gawd.....

I just HATE this my side , your side crap.... that we have all been pulled in to!

IT IS what your congressmen and my congressmen WANT....it keeps them in power, each of them, as the lesser of 2 evils in the least....

 

[WillowTree]

If you fold and give up your own beliefs and convictions through intimidation, then you don't deserve to be there. Vote them out.

and keep their sorry asses out too.

 

[MaggieMae]

You are, unfortunately, incapable of recognizing the fact that your view of "corruption" is merely a condemnation of the left. There is no "corruption" in anything you've posted. Nothing you've said will lead to corruption charges against anyone. You're just hating on Pelosi and Reid, pure and simple. They've done nothing illegal but here you are declaring them CORRUPT!!! Name the corruption laws they've broken. There aren't any. You just don't like the fact that they won.

We can all see what you're doing here.

Promising a rep/senator something special for his or her district for a 'yes' vote on a piece of legislation isn't corruption?

no sweety it's bartering, and it will be bartering until Republicans are in office then it will revert to corruption..

But they're just so damned good at it. By now, of course, they hope no one remembers.

An illustrated guide to Republican scandals. - By Holly Allen, Christopher Beam, and Torie Bosch - Slate Magazine

 

[Vanquish]

Have so many of you forgotten that COMPROMISE isn't a four-letter word? It's how democracy moves forward and we dont end up shooting or shoving each other?

The C word gets a bad rap these days...but its one of the pillars of democracy.

 

[bodecea]

Term limits will be imposed 225 days from now. The ones we vote in must vow never to confirm any political appointments for any out of work congressman that voted for this bill. As a mater of fact we should never let anyone voted out, lobby or work for government again. This is one of our biggest problems, these criminals keep getting recycled.

Really? What new law is that imposing term limits?

 

[bodecea]

Real Americans, its time to pick up a weapon and take our country back from these anti American socialists called democrats in DC.

I don't think a pillow fight is a viable option, Lost Soul.

 

[bodecea]

Compromise is critical to representative democracy. Without compromise, nothing would be done. Is that your goal? An impotent government?

No, that is not my goal. And nothing I've written states that I am against compromise. I am against the federal government blackmailing our representatives to get votes. I am against the federal government promising special interest groups something in return for their support. That is not compromise, Joe, it is corruption.

totalatarianism, we have a totatatiarn regime, they knew that the majority of the people were against this bill and they rammed it through anyway, they viturally took over 16 of the economy.

Yes, we are a totalatarianism government now......

 

[MaggieMae]

While I, as an individual, will not vote for anyone who voted 'yes' to the bill, I am not really talking about the healthcare bill. I am talking about honesty and openness in politics. I just think it is time that we demanded that the people elected to represent us do so honestly. If they can't do that, they shouldn't be representing us.

This is not about democrats or republicans, left or right, it's about quality. I think we deserve better than corruption, blackmail, backroom deals, bribery or any underhand tactic.

Really now? This year-long healthcare fight has been the most open and publicly accessible legislative process in all of American history. The entire scope of the the bill has been sliced and diced in the full public sphere. There are no secrets here of any kind. There are just a lot of things that a lot of people don't like. We got to see it all, and I mean ALL OF IT!!!

You just don't like it that your side lost.

Bullshit we didn't get to see any of the arm twisting and bribes that took place last weekend all behind closed doors. I can't wait for the deals and bribes and threats to be uncovered, what it took Nancy and Dingle Barry to buy those yes votes. This will not be forgotten by the American people. The peoples will was ignored. There will be record turnout this November election day!!!! these yes voters will pay with their jobs!!!!

I guess your knowledge of Capital Hill shenanigans only goes back a couple of years, or less. The second biggest ENTITLEMET PROGRAM ever was done by twisting twisting and going against every House rule ever instituted.

BIG PHARMA SCAM: Medicare Prescription Part D | WesPac | Securing America Community

Was the outrageous BIG PHARMA bill actually passed on the floor of the House? Not as per House 'rules'. Not as we witnessed it, (and we did, thanks to C-Span.) BIG PHARMA was actually defeated on the first vote in the wee small hours, and it would have stayed defeated if not for the work Tom Delay. Delay and his extortionist-henchmen set to work turning that 20 minute 'nay' vote around. It took them three hours in which they resorted to full-blown blackmail! So much for the Ethics Committee, the Rules Committee and/or any semblance of congressional oversight...( or even simple common decency for that matter.) It's simply ludicrous to trust that they "police" themselves in the Peoples' House...but that's a whole different story...for another day...or another series.

And did I mention (again) that Medicare Part D was approved as a multi-billion entitlement program that was UNFUNDED? I mean the Republicans didn't even try to crunch any numbers to actually pay for it.

It's too bad that Keee Keee always seems to post fact-free nonsense, then scurries off never to return to the same thread again and become a tad more educated on whatever issue 'it' is blathering about.

 

[MaggieMae]

Promising a rep/senator something special for his or her district for a 'yes' vote on a piece of legislation isn't corruption?

Although I didn't like to see it happen here, it happens ALL THE TIME. Back room deals are historic. Know thy history, which isn't even hidden. Usually, among Congresspeople, the way it goes is "If you vote for my bill, which my constituents want and are pushing hard for, I'll vote for yours." It becomes corrupt when it is outside lobbyists who move a legislator's decision to vote yay or nay.

I don't care how often it happens or who does it, it has nothing to do with 'history', it has to stop. And until we hold them accountable for it, it will continue. It shows that these people lack any fortitude in their beliefs, they can be bought like a common whore on a street corner. Only they're even lower than that because they're using our money to do it. At least the whore is earning an honest living.

It's a little more difficult to hide their votes these days, because you can track the movement of a bill online and see just who was in favor of or against something initially, then came out and voted for or against it. And usually if it's an important bill, those folks are called on by the media to explain their vote switching.

Remember the damage to John Kerry by switching his vote on the first Iraq supplemental? ("I was for it before I was against it.") Well that, my friends, is commonplace. It just so happened he was running for president and it was glommed onto by his opponents as being something that had never been done before. Ridiculous.

 

[MaggieMae]

Sorry Care, but I don't see how making deals with fellow reps and voting for or against something based on what they want you to do is for the 'good of the people' either. That's not what they were sent there to do.

It is a POSITION in the House....the Minority WHIP or the majority WHIP.....

it IS PART of the way congress WAS SET UP....with the WHIPS in charge of doing the WHIPPING to get all congressmen herded together on a vote.

A whip is a role in party politics whose primary purpose is to ensure control of the formal decision-making process in a parliamentary legislature. Whips are party 'enforcers', who typically offer both inducements and punishments to party members. In modern times, most whips are concerned primarily with ensuring a desired attendance for an important vote. The usage comes from the hunting term whipping in, i.e. preventing hounds from wandering away from the pack.

so, i see this as part of legal moves of the house.

care

I understand what you are saying, but if you have convictions in your beliefs, you shouldn't be able to be bought or 'whipped' into agreeing otherwise, especially if it isn't for the good of the people that you represent. These people aren't supposed to be sheep or dogs that need herding, I would hope they would have more rock solid convictions than that.

You're wrong. Achieving consensus always involves negotiations, which in turn always involves giving and taking. If it didn't happen at all, nothing would ever get done (even military spending, which I presume nobody objects to how much that bill comes to every year, only where to spend it).

 

[MaggieMae]

If you fold and give up your own beliefs and convictions through intimidation, then you don't deserve to be there. Vote them out.

Generally, there's no intimidation. What you see on camera is mostly for show.

 

[bodecea]

And people ask me why I never bother debating anything on this forum.

Still waiting for you to name the corruption laws that were broken here. I asked you to tell me and you're mysteriously silent on that count. That IS the very core reason why you started this thread.....HMMMM??? The CORRUPT ways that Pelosi got the votes?? This is YOUR topic so debate it.

What laws were broken here? Name one.

So as long as it's 'legal', it's ok? Is the word 'ethical' in your dictionary or did the left remove that word and no one told me?

Except, you did not use the word "ethical"...you used the term"corrupt" which clearly indicates illegality. Are you backpedaling now?

 

[MaggieMae]

I know I felt sick inside and out when the medicare Pill Bill AND the Bankruptcy reform bills were passed/shoved through/with perks for the industries, so I can thoroughly understand how the opposition to this bill must feel....it ain't pretty....if anyone wants to be honest about it....

I only object to the constant use of the words "shoved through." For God's sake, they've been working on this for a FULL YEAR! And it doesn't resemble the original. If anything, the reason this bill is such a mess is BECAUSE it's been trampled upon, pulled apart, spat out, redrafted, taken to the streets, torn down, rebuilt to satisfy all the negativity, and STILL it won't fly. Republicans keep saying "give us a chance to do a smaller bill and do it right." Uh huh. Who is willing to give them that chance when they have historically killed any kind of health care reform, including this one? Frankly, I'd like to see this particular mess scrapped and a clean bill redone. BUT...by the Democrats.

 

[bodecea]

Compromise (AKA quid pro quo) voting is standard operating procedure in Congress.

I can't fault those of you who object to it, but let's not pretend that the passage of this bill broke any new ground in political gamesmanship, shall we?

Every one of us, regaardless of what congressional district we hale from, has been the winner and the loser of this political process.

I'm certainly not against compromise but this ain't compromise. This is blackmail and bribery. I am not stupid, I know these are SOP for DC. My point - which seems to be either beyond the comprehension of some, or maybe they just don't like the answer - is should we put up with it or should we demand better standards of behavior from our representatives?

Those two things are illegal. Please point out the laws that were broken and by whom.

 

[MaggieMae]

No, that is not my goal. And nothing I've written states that I am against compromise. I am against the federal government blackmailing our representatives to get votes. I am against the federal government promising special interest groups something in return for their support. That is not compromise, Joe, it is corruption.

totalatarianism, we have a totatatiarn regime, they knew that the majority of the people were against this bill and they rammed it through anyway, they viturally took over 16 of the economy.

Yes, we are a totalatarianism government now......

The same hysterical claims were made when Roosevelt instituted the New Deal; the same hysterical claims were made when Social Security became mandated; the same hysterical claims were made when Medicare was mandated. Actually, the same hysterical claims were made by the left when Bush used the veto threat to push through HIS programs. Guess what, boys and girls...it ain't happened yet and it never will.

 

[bodecea]

Oh my, such faux outrage.

So, what you're saying is that you are okay with the government using tactics such as bribery, blackmail, and intimidation to get their way. Ok, that's your right. Personally, I would prefer an honest government.

You are, unfortunately, unable to take partisanship out of the discussion. That's fine. I am. I have and will continue to be anti-corruption in government... whether it is on the right or the left... perhaps it's easier for me because I have no allegiance to either party.

were you okay with all of THIS verifiable corruption that took place with the republican medicare pill bill, or were you unaware of it?

PLEASE READ THIS LINK!
Poison pill: how Abramoff's cronies sold the Medicare drug bill. - Free Online Library

congress actually WAS CORRUPT with actual PROOF of such, charges and convictions, not just speculation....

BECAUSE you and others were SILENT and turned a blind eye when the repub party WAS corrupt with the medicare pill bill passage is WHY congress still struggles with the up and up today, perhaps?

Cali-G was NOT silent at all about that.

I actually knew her when that was a current event. You didn't; yet you make not only a baseless assumption but a flat-out wrong one. Not wise.

I, for one, am willing to be convinced. Show us some stuff she posted or wrote back then complaining about that Medicare Pill Bill.

 

[bodecea]

Cali-G was NOT silent at all about that.

I actually knew her when that was a current event. You didn't; yet you make not only a baseless assumption but a flat-out wrong one. Not wise.

I asked a question???? I am certain when she comes back on, that SHE will answer me on it....si modo.

How about YOU, where were YOU on the CORRUPTION that took place in order to pass the Republican Medicare Pill bill and WHY would you trust ANYTHING any Republican does after such corruption?

The point, is that we don't have much of a choice, perhaps? Choosing the lesser of two evils....?

so are you actually trying to sell the bullshit that since republicans were corrupt you are fine with the dems doing it too>>> holy shit,, now I've seen pigs fly.

Glad to see you agree that Republicans are corrupt. After all, a few HAVE gone to prison.

 

[bodecea]

All of the deals are in violation of the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment.

How so?