How Long Has the PPACA/Obamacare Been in Effect?

[itfitzme]

Ahhhh, and now you will whine like a bitch because you have been shown to ill informed on this subject.

Cry to mommy Dante, bt substantiate your claims

Not being aware of it it not having multiple start dates hardly qualifies as "ill informed". It is just one fact among many things.

What does become apparent is that you are no longer able to stick to the subject, PPACA.

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

For instance,

"SEC. 1322. FEDERAL PROGRAM TO ASSIST ESTABLISHMENT AND OPERATION
OF NONPROFIT, MEMBER-RUN HEALTH INSURANCE
ISSUERS."

"SEC. 5202. NURSING STUDENT LOAN PROGRAM."

"SEC. 775. INVESTMENT IN TOMORROW’S PEDIATRIC HEALTH CARE"
WORKFORCE."

"the Secretary agrees to make payments on the principal
and interest of undergraduate, graduate, or graduate medical
education loans of professionals described in paragraph (1)
of not more than $35,000 a year for each year of agreed upon
service under such paragraph for a period of not more than
3 years during the qualified health professional’s—"

Kid, did Obama lie when he said we could keep our plans?

You are terribly confused from not having paid attention and having forgotten what you did experience.

 

[percysunshine]

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (the Affordable Care Act), Public Law 111–148, was enacted on March 23, 2010; the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act (the Reconciliation Act), Public Law 111– 152, was enacted on March 30, 2010.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

 

[itfitzme]

...

The purpose was and is wealth redistribution.

Clue: The USA was built and achieved greatness upon the concept and principle of wealth redistribution.

Try US History 101

The idea that wealth redistribution is a new and foreign concept alien to American Capitalism is nothing but bullshit

That is the height of nonsense, Dante! The US was NOT built upon the concept of taking wealth from those who worked for it and giving it to those that hadn't. If you had even proposed that to the Founding Fathers they would have tarred and feathered you right before running you out of town on a rail! What made the US great was that we were a country where people had property rights that couldn't be arbitrarily taken from them by a monarch. It WASN'T that we took property away from those who worked hard to obtain it. That's a concept that's been foisted upon Americans in the past fifty years and to be quite blunt...it's turning us into a "has been" nation.

It certainly is. It was called slavery and was a large part of the economy of the Southern states.

 

[Antares]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

What are you talking about? "the fall out from what happens on Dec 31st"?

You do understand that cause comes before effect. It is a physical reality of nature. Time flows in one direction and what happens before is the cause and what happens after is the effect. There is no such thing as "fall out from" something that happens "after".

The "cause" is the law itself...the fall out is because of what happens on Dec 31...you are better than this.

 

[Antares]

Not being aware of it it not having multiple start dates hardly qualifies as "ill informed". It is just one fact among many things.

What does become apparent is that you are no longer able to stick to the subject, PPACA.

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

For instance,

"SEC. 1322. FEDERAL PROGRAM TO ASSIST ESTABLISHMENT AND OPERATION
OF NONPROFIT, MEMBER-RUN HEALTH INSURANCE
ISSUERS."

"SEC. 5202. NURSING STUDENT LOAN PROGRAM."

"SEC. 775. INVESTMENT IN TOMORROW’S PEDIATRIC HEALTH CARE"
WORKFORCE."

"the Secretary agrees to make payments on the principal
and interest of undergraduate, graduate, or graduate medical
education loans of professionals described in paragraph (1)
of not more than $35,000 a year for each year of agreed upon
service under such paragraph for a period of not more than
3 years during the qualified health professional’s—"

Kid, did Obama lie when he said we could keep our plans?

You are terribly confused from not having paid attention and having forgotten what you did experience.

Your ignorance and deflection are not my problem

 

[itfitzme]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

As well, you seem to have not paid attention to the mass of detailed information that I posted pages ago with regard to the history of insurance premium rates as well as Kiaser's evaluation that differentiated between the ongoing effects of the health care economy and the implementation of PPACA.

You were too busy trying to claim I wasn't on subject instead of paying attention to the facts.

 

[itfitzme]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

What are you talking about? "the fall out from what happens on Dec 31st"?

You do understand that cause comes before effect. It is a physical reality of nature. Time flows in one direction and what happens before is the cause and what happens after is the effect. There is no such thing as "fall out from" something that happens "after".

The "cause" is the law itself...the fall out is because of what happens on Dec 31...you are better than this.

Your are wrong. You have magical thinking.

Try studying physics.

 

[percysunshine]

As soon as it is enacted, it is in effect, barring another congressional action ( or an Executive branch violation of the separation of powers, but I digress). Even if they spend all of the authorized funds, and have to stop buying free lunches for insurance company marketing staff, the law is still in effect.

 

[Antares]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

As well, you seem to have not paid attention to the mass of detailed information that I posted pages ago with regard to the history of insurance premium rates as well as Kiaser's evaluation that differentiated between the ongoing effects of the health care economy and the implementation of PPACA.

You were too busy trying to claim I wasn't on subject instead of paying attention to the facts.

(smile) You are a Dante clone, things "are" because you say they are.

Sorry, you lose.

All individual plans EXCEPT for the grandfathered "individual" plans die Dec 31....the ORIGINAL mandated "compliance" date.

The "grandfathered" individual plans die NEXT Dec

The important word here is "individual"...why?

Because they are the only plans affected this year

2015 the Group plans will be affected...try and keep up kid.

 

[itfitzme]

As soon as it is enacted, it is in effect, barring another congressional action ( or an Executive branch violation of the separation of powers, but I digress). Even if they spend all of the authorized funds, and have to stop buying free lunches for insurance company marketing staff, the law is still in effect.

There is a difference between, say, a change in the speed limit on the books, the actual posting of new speed limit signs, and the enforcement of the speed limit by patrol officers.

A physical effect cannot occur because of some ink on pieces of paper. There has to be an actual physical occurrence in order for something to have an effect.

That and it is currently November 3rd, 2013. December 31st does not occur until almost two months from now. So, no manner of happenings on December 31st are going to directly effect things back in time. Cause comes before effect. It always has, since the beginning of the universe. It is a universal law.

 

[itfitzme]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

As well, you seem to have not paid attention to the mass of detailed information that I posted pages ago with regard to the history of insurance premium rates as well as Kiaser's evaluation that differentiated between the ongoing effects of the health care economy and the implementation of PPACA.

You were too busy trying to claim I wasn't on subject instead of paying attention to the facts.

(smile) You are a Dante clone, things "are" because you say they are.

Sorry, you lose.

All individual plans EXCEPT for the grandfathered "individual" plans die Dec 31....the ORIGINAL mandated "compliance" date.

The "grandfathered" individual plans die NEXT Dec

The important word here is "individual"...why?

Because they are the only plans affected this year

2015 the Group plans will be affected...try and keep up kid.

There is nothing to "lose". Again, magical thinking on your part in numerous respects.

First, you are under the mistaken belief that your thoughts are somehow beamed directly onto reality, causing something to happen. They don't. No person, except perhaps Carnac the Magnificent, is capable of reading your thoughts.

And imagining something in your head doesn't qualify as "winning" anything.

You are just living in a land of magical thinking.

 

[Antares]

As soon as it is enacted, it is in effect, barring another congressional action ( or an Executive branch violation of the separation of powers, but I digress). Even if they spend all of the authorized funds, and have to stop buying free lunches for insurance company marketing staff, the law is still in effect.

There is a difference between, say, a change in the speed limit on the books, the actual posting of new speed limit signs, and the enforcement of the speed limit by patrol officers.

A physical effect cannot occur because of some ink on pieces of paper. There has to be an actual physical occurrence in order for something to have an effect.

That and it is currently November 3rd, 2013. December 31st does not occur until almost two months from now. So, no manner of happenings on December 31st are going to directly effect things back in time. Cause comes before effect. It always has, since the beginning of the universe. It is a universal law.

The ACA IS the cause for what will happen on Dec 31...you look stupid claiming otherwise.

 

[itfitzme]

The main body of the PPACA hasn't even become effective yet. It doesn't start until 2014. Open enrollment began already.

And, while there are key start dates to parts of it, there are also effects that won't become apparent until 2018 or beyond. Affecting the supply side is not something that can happen within a year.

Don't make me laugh.

What we are dealling with today is the fall out from Dec 31....what happens on Dec 31 kid?

As well, you seem to have not paid attention to the mass of detailed information that I posted pages ago with regard to the history of insurance premium rates as well as Kiaser's evaluation that differentiated between the ongoing effects of the health care economy and the implementation of PPACA.

You were too busy trying to claim I wasn't on subject instead of paying attention to the facts.

(smile) You are a Dante clone, things "are" because you say they are.

Sorry, you lose.

All individual plans EXCEPT for the grandfathered "individual" plans die Dec 31....the ORIGINAL mandated "compliance" date.

The "grandfathered" individual plans die NEXT Dec

The important word here is "individual"...why?

Because they are the only plans affected this year

2015 the Group plans will be affected...try and keep up kid.

Oh, I know.....

I am thinking of a number between one and one hundred. Do you know what it is? No.... Oh, I win.

 

[itfitzme]

As soon as it is enacted, it is in effect, barring another congressional action ( or an Executive branch violation of the separation of powers, but I digress). Even if they spend all of the authorized funds, and have to stop buying free lunches for insurance company marketing staff, the law is still in effect.

There is a difference between, say, a change in the speed limit on the books, the actual posting of new speed limit signs, and the enforcement of the speed limit by patrol officers.

A physical effect cannot occur because of some ink on pieces of paper. There has to be an actual physical occurrence in order for something to have an effect.

That and it is currently November 3rd, 2013. December 31st does not occur until almost two months from now. So, no manner of happenings on December 31st are going to directly effect things back in time. Cause comes before effect. It always has, since the beginning of the universe. It is a universal law.

The ACA IS the cause for what will happen on Dec 31...you look stupid claiming otherwise.

What will happen on Dec 31st hasn't happened yet. When it happens, then ACA will have been the cause of it.

Causality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Causality (also referred to as causation[1]) is the relation between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is understood as a consequence of the first.[2]

In common usage, causality is also the relation between a set of factors (causes) and a phenomenon (the effect). Anything that affects an effect is a factor of that effect. A direct factor is a factor that affects an effect directly, that is, without any intervening factors. (Intervening factors are sometimes called "intermediate factors".) The connection between a cause(s) and an effect in this way can also be referred to as a causal nexus."

If you can't be specific, no one has a clue what you are talking about.

What has happened already is the medical loss ratio rule

"HHS Final Rule for PPACA Medical Loss Ratio Rebates. ... required to spend 80% to 85% of consumers' premiums on direct care for patients."

And, in fact, it did result in rebates to customers by Blue Cross Blue Shield.

BCBSKS - Health Care Reform - Frequently Asked Questions - Medical Loss Ratio

Beyond Rebates: How Much Are Consumers Saving from the ACA?s Medical Loss Ratio Provision? | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

I saw advertisements for Blue Cross Blue Shield saying that they did provide rebates. That would be something that did happen.

And Kiaser reports this

 

[Antares]

As well, you seem to have not paid attention to the mass of detailed information that I posted pages ago with regard to the history of insurance premium rates as well as Kiaser's evaluation that differentiated between the ongoing effects of the health care economy and the implementation of PPACA.

You were too busy trying to claim I wasn't on subject instead of paying attention to the facts.

(smile) You are a Dante clone, things "are" because you say they are.

Sorry, you lose.

All individual plans EXCEPT for the grandfathered "individual" plans die Dec 31....the ORIGINAL mandated "compliance" date.

The "grandfathered" individual plans die NEXT Dec

The important word here is "individual"...why?

Because they are the only plans affected this year

2015 the Group plans will be affected...try and keep up kid.

There is nothing to "lose". Again, magical thinking on your part in numerous respects.

First, you are under the mistaken belief that your thoughts are somehow beamed directly onto reality, causing something to happen. They don't. No person, except perhaps Carnac the Magnificent, is capable of reading your thoughts.

And imagining something in your head doesn't qualify as "winning" anything.

You are just living in a land of magical thinking.

Sweetie you are free to type whatever you wish.

All I can tell you is that I work for Blue Cross Blue Shield and that I deal with this everyday.

Now....the inconvenient truth is that I live in the real world, you don't.

I hear and see the tears of joy and despair everyday, you don't.

I do not want the law repealed, I want it fixed...

The people who need help the most aren't getting it.

Nothing you type changes the facts of what I live...so by all means go on...I will say however that the student loan and pharmacy shit you posted has nothing to do with anything we have have been talking about...

"We" meaning everyone but you kid.

 

[Antares]

There is a difference between, say, a change in the speed limit on the books, the actual posting of new speed limit signs, and the enforcement of the speed limit by patrol officers.

A physical effect cannot occur because of some ink on pieces of paper. There has to be an actual physical occurrence in order for something to have an effect.

That and it is currently November 3rd, 2013. December 31st does not occur until almost two months from now. So, no manner of happenings on December 31st are going to directly effect things back in time. Cause comes before effect. It always has, since the beginning of the universe. It is a universal law.

The ACA IS the cause for what will happen on Dec 31...you look stupid claiming otherwise.

What will happen on Dec 31st hasn't happened yet. When it happens, then ACA will have been the cause of it.

Of course...thats why I write 5 to 10 policies a day with an effective day date of 01/01/2014.

Just slink away.

 

[itfitzme]

(smile) You are a Dante clone, things "are" because you say they are.

Sorry, you lose.

All individual plans EXCEPT for the grandfathered "individual" plans die Dec 31....the ORIGINAL mandated "compliance" date.

The "grandfathered" individual plans die NEXT Dec

The important word here is "individual"...why?

Because they are the only plans affected this year

2015 the Group plans will be affected...try and keep up kid.

There is nothing to "lose". Again, magical thinking on your part in numerous respects.

First, you are under the mistaken belief that your thoughts are somehow beamed directly onto reality, causing something to happen. They don't. No person, except perhaps Carnac the Magnificent, is capable of reading your thoughts.

And imagining something in your head doesn't qualify as "winning" anything.

You are just living in a land of magical thinking.

Sweetie you are free to type whatever you wish.

All I can tell you is that I work for Blue Cross Blue Shield and that I deal with this everyday.

Now....the inconvenient truth is that I live in the real world, you don't.

I hear and see the tears of joy and despair everyday, you don't.

I do not want the law repealed, I want it fixed...

The people who need help the most aren't getting it.

Nothing you type changes the facts of what I live...so by all means go on...I will say however that the student loan and pharmacy shit you posted has nothing to do with anything we have have been talking about...

"We" meaning everyone but you kid.

I've already assessed the disingenuous nature of your accouting with

She came into to see me yesterday, her premiums had gone from 289 a month to 549.... she qualified for enough subsidy to take her premiu aount down to 97 dollars."

Where you wish to claim that premiums for her went up when, in fact, all total it when down. Down from 298 to 97.

Then, I've also found how you are confused about your own changing the subject from an objective PPACA to a subjective assessment of me, Dante, or whomever, completely obliviously. And you wonder why you get insulted back.

Then your concept of causality, like your accounting skill, is mutable depending on how you want the answer to come out. You ignore the rebate portion of the law to claim an increase. You put cause before effect, wishing to claim that something on December 31st has happened already. Excuse me if I am unable to follow this magical thinking.

Then, of course, the PPACA includes many implementations, from the initial preexisting condition rules and the MLRs which has happened, to student loan and grant programs which, while they will be implemented soon, cannot be expected to have a real effect for years because people really have to take exams and pass them before being licensed. Simply signing the law into effect doesn't change the reality of that.

You may work for Blue Cross Blue Shield, and I expect quite effectively, but that doesn't necessitate that you have any firm grasp on accounting or causality. And if am unable to read your mind, well.. excuuusssee meeee.

The inconvenient truth is that, in fact and so far, according to all data, the current increase in health insurance premiums attributed directly to PPACA is about 2% at most and at best,

"Adding to the premium savings the amount individual market consumers received in rebates yields a total savings of $1.2 billion for 2011. This year, individual market insurers are expecting to issue $241 million in rebates (based on our analysis of early estimates from insurers filed with state insurance departments), bringing the total estimated savings for 2012 to $2.1 billion. While this savings was not distributed evenly (with more going to people enrolled in plans that had low MLRs prior to the law), when averaged across all individual market enrollees, this amounts to a savings of $204 per person ($181 in premium savings and $23 in rebates) in 2012. Taking into account both premium savings and estimated rebates, people purchasing insurance on their own in 2012 spent 7.5% less on average on insurance than they might otherwise have in the absence of the law." - Jun 06, 2013

Beyond Rebates: How Much Are Consumers Saving from the ACA?s Medical Loss Ratio Provision? | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

GTG

 

[itfitzme]

The ACA IS the cause for what will happen on Dec 31...you look stupid claiming otherwise.

What will happen on Dec 31st hasn't happened yet. When it happens, then ACA will have been the cause of it.

Of course...thats why I write 5 to 10 policies a day with an effective day date of 01/01/2014.

Just slink away.

The fact that you write policies doesn't mean anything in terms of knowledge of the effect of PPACA on health care premiums.

I can drive a car but that doesn't mean I understand the workings of an internal combustion engine.

 

[Antares]

What will happen on Dec 31st hasn't happened yet. When it happens, then ACA will have been the cause of it.

Of course...thats why I write 5 to 10 policies a day with an effective day date of 01/01/2014.

Just slink away.

The fact that you write policies doesn't mean anything in terms of knowledge of the effect of PPACA on health care premiums.

I can drive a car but that doesn't mean I understand the workings of an internal combustion engine.

I feel sorry for you.

You see your ego, or perhaps the lack of size of your dick is wrapped up in this.

Mine isn't.

I write these policies because the ones that they have end Dec 31.

You are free to type anything you wish as to why...but that in no way changes the truth.

You lose, you just don't have enough integrity or honesty to admit it.

Prez cracka lied.....and American's know it.

We are coming in 2014...

I will not acknowledge you again until you become honest kid.

 

[percysunshine]

As soon as it is enacted, it is in effect, barring another congressional action ( or an Executive branch violation of the separation of powers, but I digress). Even if they spend all of the authorized funds, and have to stop buying free lunches for insurance company marketing staff, the law is still in effect.

There is a difference between, say, a change in the speed limit on the books, the actual posting of new speed limit signs, and the enforcement of the speed limit by patrol officers.

A physical effect cannot occur because of some ink on pieces of paper. There has to be an actual physical occurrence in order for something to have an effect.

That and it is currently November 3rd, 2013. December 31st does not occur until almost two months from now. So, no manner of happenings on December 31st are going to directly effect things back in time. Cause comes before effect. It always has, since the beginning of the universe. It is a universal law.

Frivolous argument. There is someone who is being paid to enforce the law, with threat of force. Could be a gun, could be the IRS and a bank seizure.