How Are Catholics Christians?

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

 

[Pogo]

as far as the RCC goes, they believe you have to take part in all the sacraments in order to be saved

That's not true. For instance one of the sacraments is matrimony. Another is "Holy Orders" (becoming a priest). If you do the latter you can't do the former.

Most Catholics are not Christians. Most believe in the church to save them, not Jesus alone.

That's not true either. All Catholics are Christians, by definition. Without Christ it ain't Catholicism. And in any case it doesn't depend on "Jesus alone".

Where are you pulling this unhinged malarkey from?

that is true what I said.

No, it is not; it's absurd what you said.. Look, I was raised Catholic -- they were unable to bullshit me, what makes you think you can?

Your inane statement above would mean, for one thing, that all Catholics are required to get married. Including priests.

The seven sacraments:
Baptism
Confirmation
Holy Eucharist
Penance
Extreme Unction
Holy Orders
Matrimony

as far as the RCC goes, they believe you have to take part in all the sacraments in order to be saved

Fails.

 

[sealybobo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

 

[Pogo]

Hail Mary!

Full of grace,
the Lord, is with thee!

Blessed art thou, among women!

And Blessed, is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus!

In this first part of the prayer, this is just repeating a part of the New testament....the scene is Elizabeth, Mary's cousin and also, the Mother to be, of John the Baptist. This is what Elizabeth says to Mary when she greets her....they BOTH are pregnant at this meeting up.... this is where the Bible states that Elizabeth's baby in womb, leaps for joy in the presence of the Lord Jesus, who is in Mary's womb....

So this part of the prayer comes directly out of verses in the Bible being repeated.

Holy Mary, mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Catholics, and all Christians for the most part, consider Jesus as a manifestation of God in the flesh, so Mary is the mother of God, (I suppose?)

And the rest is not asking her to forgive you herself, or that she can offer her own grace for forgiveness of sins, or that she can perform some miracle for you, or anything at all like that... She is considered as someone who is in Heaven and by her Son's side...and KNOWN as someone who has Jesus's ear...known as someone who can plead, (intercede) with Jesus, to help...

which is also supported in the new testament, with the wedding feast scene, where she finds out that they are out of wine, and then let's Jesus know that they are out of wine, and Jesus performs his very first miracle in the Bible,(asked of Him by Mary), and changes water in jars, to wine, so that the wedding feast could continue....without wine, the wedding feast would end....

So Catholics believe the dead saints, and prophets, Moses, and others are in Heaven with God, and that they are ALIVE and well in Heaven, that there is an "after life" and some lucky saints are immediately brought to Heaven when they die, no waiting for judgement day.

And Mary, along with the Saints, and the Prophets, are there to intercede and interact with Jesus/ God in person. No different than asking a congregation to pray for one of their sick members....when you say to someone, please pray for my father, he has cancer, yahdahdahdahdahdah. There is no difference to Catholics in asking that congregation to send prayers for you, than asking the saints, and prophets to send prayers for you.

In general, people pray to God first, even Catholics....praying to these others seems to be some sort of insurance....hahahahaha....just in case God was really busy at the time, these other saints and prophets can give it a second, third, fourth, fith etc shot at it for you.... and maybe get God's ear?

Personally, I just go straight to God....but this is what I read about your question on the Catholic Church's internet question and answer site.... on the subject, a while back....

Could be interpreted as ringing the phone, asking "is God there please?" and His mom says He can't come to the phone as He's doing His Homework. So you leave a message.

(Gotta get that homework done; you don't want to walk in on the Penguins emptyhanded. They get violent.)

 

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

That's in no way "worship".

 

[Rikurzhen]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

 

[sealybobo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

That's in no way "worship".

Really? Thinking someone is incapable of making mistakes or being wrong isn't worship?

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Care4all]

who in the world thinks Catholics worship the Pope? They have 2000 years of history with Popes, quite a few of them in the millennia were rotten to the core....Catholics are very aware that Popes can be wrong....

 

[sealybobo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

1. "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?"

3. "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context...We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."

4. "Just as the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say "thou shalt not" to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?"

5. "Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

 

[ninja007]

who in the world thinks Catholics worship the Pope? They have 2000 years of history with Popes, quite a few of them in the millennia were rotten to the core....Catholics are very aware that Popes can be wrong....

yes and if there is one pope that is bad, it breaks the chain, therefore rendering it all FALSE.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

You don't help your case by linking to individual definitions for "dogma," "the Pope" and the "Catholic Church" and then making up your own definition for Papal Infallibility. Why not go to the Wikipedia definition of Papal Infallibility instead of dancing around it. Here it is:

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error[1] "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."​

 

[sealybobo]

who in the world thinks Catholics worship the Pope? They have 2000 years of history with Popes, quite a few of them in the millennia were rotten to the core....Catholics are very aware that Popes can be wrong....

yes and if there is one pope that is bad, it breaks the chain, therefore rendering it all FALSE.

That is the Mormon's position on all other Christians. But their chain has not been broken. From 1800 Joseph Smith to the current leader of the LDS, the chain is not broken.

Great point. So we're suppose to know when the Catholic Church was lost and when it was found? Was the last Pope evil? Sure seemed like it. A Nazi for god sakes. The one now seems nice. I guess if he doesn't work out they'll get another one.

I can't believe they made those last two popes saints. OMG anyone can be a saint I guess. What miracles did they do? NOTHING.

 

[sealybobo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

You don't help your case by linking to individual definitions for "dogma," "the Pope" and the "Catholic Church" and then making up your own definition for Papal Infallibility. Why not go to the Wikipedia definition of Papal Infallibility instead of dancing around it. Here it is:

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error[1] "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."​

Lets just focus on this part "the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error"

So when the Pope covered up child molesters and shipped those priests off to other parishes where they could molest more children, was that concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church?

Was he right about Capitalism? I seem to agree with him on that one. But infallible??? No one is.

 

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

That's in no way "worship".

Really? Thinking someone is incapable of making mistakes or being wrong isn't worship?

Of course it isn't. That's an absurd non sequitur.

 

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

1. "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?"

3. "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context...We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."

4. "Just as the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say "thou shalt not" to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?"

5. "Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

"only infallible concerning church doctrine" has always been the case. It ain't new. And none of these statements fits that definition. Not a one.

 

[Pogo]

who in the world thinks Catholics worship the Pope? They have 2000 years of history with Popes, quite a few of them in the millennia were rotten to the core....Catholics are very aware that Popes can be wrong....

yes and if there is one pope that is bad, it breaks the chain, therefore rendering it all FALSE.

Do you just not understand what the word "false" means?

There is no "chain". I'm just telling you what the structure is. And that definition of the structure is true. Like it or lump it.

 

[Pogo]

who in the world thinks Catholics worship the Pope? They have 2000 years of history with Popes, quite a few of them in the millennia were rotten to the core....Catholics are very aware that Popes can be wrong....

yes and if there is one pope that is bad, it breaks the chain, therefore rendering it all FALSE.

That is the Mormon's position on all other Christians. But their chain has not been broken. From 1800 Joseph Smith to the current leader of the LDS, the chain is not broken.

Great point. So we're suppose to know when the Catholic Church was lost and when it was found? Was the last Pope evil? Sure seemed like it. A Nazi for god sakes. The one now seems nice. I guess if he doesn't work out they'll get another one.

I can't believe they made those last two popes saints. OMG anyone can be a saint I guess. What miracles did they do? NOTHING.

What the hell is this "chain" of which y'all speak? Something like a rosary?

Btw you don't have to do ah miracle to get sainted. You really don't have to do much of anything except have a good PR machine.

 

[Pogo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

You don't help your case by linking to individual definitions for "dogma," "the Pope" and the "Catholic Church" and then making up your own definition for Papal Infallibility. Why not go to the Wikipedia definition of Papal Infallibility instead of dancing around it. Here it is:

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error[1] "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."​

Lets just focus on this part "the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error"

So when the Pope covered up child molesters and shipped those priests off to other parishes where they could molest more children, was that concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church?

Was he right about Capitalism? I seem to agree with him on that one. But infallible??? No one is.

Of course no one is. The doctrine itself is more bullshit.
I'm just explaining what the doctrine IS -- not actually advocating for it. You do understand the distinction ......... do you not?

Side note -- I don't think the Pope is in any position to "ship priests off to another parish". If the entire church extended no further than San Marino that might be doable but with hundreds of millions of population all over the world the middle managers (bishops) would take care of that sort of thing. Nobody could possibly micromanage to that degree.

"Capitalism" would once again fall under the heap of stuff that has nothing to do with the religion and therefore irrelevant to this. As is this papal bull tangent (hee hee) to the actual topic.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

You don't help your case by linking to individual definitions for "dogma," "the Pope" and the "Catholic Church" and then making up your own definition for Papal Infallibility. Why not go to the Wikipedia definition of Papal Infallibility instead of dancing around it. Here it is:

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error[1] "When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."​

Lets just focus on this part "the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error"

So when the Pope covered up child molesters and shipped those priests off to other parishes where they could molest more children, was that concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church?

Was he right about Capitalism? I seem to agree with him on that one. But infallible??? No one is.

As Pogo already explained, Capitalism has nothing to do with this debate.

Child molestation was not, and is not, Church doctrine. There is a difference between an administrative decision and a doctrinal decision.

For this child molestation issue to be doctrinal, the Pope would have had to declare child molestation to be a core belief of all Catholics, a practice encouraged by God, and a practice one must engage in to be considered a good Catholic, to be one of the flock.

Doesn't it strike you as a bit absurd that you barged into this debate, took a position and then argued from ignorance and now both Pogo and I have to explain these simple things to you? Can you see how that makes Atheists look bad? Do you also barge into gardening debates and tell gardeners that the best way to grow vegetables is to drench their garden plot in motor oil? Knowing the topic you're debating is a definite plus.

 

[sealybobo]

Watching some local Catholic channels' kids program earlier today, it had some cartoony angels reciting the Rosary and some other things I wasn't familar with. I got to thinking, how is directing prayer to Mary not violating the 1st Commandment? Makes sense if you're a cult, but not the largest Christian denomination in the world, didn't anyone notice?

They also worship a Pope. This is one of the reasons us Greek Orthodox Christians split from the Catholic Church.

Nobody "worshps" the fucking Pope.

Sure they do. He's even infallible remember?

Hey remember me? We tangled in the Atheism threads. You'd do all of us Atheists a favor if you first learned about the religions that you're criticizing. You make Atheists look like giant gaping assholes when you start criticizing something you don't know about.

He's not infallible, he's infallible on Church doctrine. This means that when the Pope declares that homosexuality is a sin, he's speaking with the authority of god and therefore that is the position that all Catholics must assume in order to be in communion with the Catholic faith. If someone asks the Pope whether it will be sunny tomorrow the Pope has no more clue than you or me, for predicting the weather has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine.

Sorry but you are wrong. Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error.

So you are now saying he's only infallible when it comes to church doctine? Probably because you guys don't like some of the stuff the new pope is saying.

1. "If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?"

3. "We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context...We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."

4. "Just as the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say "thou shalt not" to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?"

5. "Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

"only infallible concerning church doctrine" has always been the case. It ain't new. And none of these statements fits that definition. Not a one.

Give me some examples that would? What are a couple things he could say that are not already pre written statements.

Can he say whatever he wants?