Do Gods Have To Actually Exist For Religions To Be Valid?

[Delta4Embassy]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

 

[TheOldSchool]

What do you think?

 

[Pogo]

I don't know squat about Scientology, but if a church doctrine says the Flying Spaghetti Monster is Lord, then by god it better exist, or else the whole house of cards gets trumped.

Prayer however can be valid without a valid god-target. Because it still contains thoughtform energy.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What do you think?

Many things. But I decline to reveal them now. It'd shape the responses to the question.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

Liberalism functions like a religion and has no gods. Environmentalism the same. Michael Crichton:

I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can't be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people---the best people, the most enlightened people---do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe. . . . .

And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It's about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.​

 

[TheOldSchool]

What do you think?

Many things. But I decline to reveal them now. It'd shape the responses to the question.

Do you think your OP won't shape responses to the question?

 

[TheOldSchool]

See how Rikurzhen completely flamed your post?

You deserved it. If you don't know why you should put some effort into understanding it.

 

[Pogo]

See how Rikurzhen completely flamed your post?

You deserved it. If you don't know why you should put some effort into understanding it.

Weird post. Not even Mr. H usually gets this drunk.

 

[Rikurzhen]

See how Rikurzhen completely flamed your post?

You deserved it. If you don't know why you should put some effort into understanding it.

I didn't flame his post at all, I directly answered it. Let's go through it step by step.

Deltas asked "Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist?"

Liberalism is valid to believers, so is environmentalism. They believe with all their heart. Evidence is not necessary nor welcome. Both are useful in that they fill the people with meaning, otherwise they'd be empty shells. Liberals and environmentalists both feel as though their belief has elevated them to a higher state of grace. Liberals feel as though they're intelligent and correct about matters. Environmentalists feel as though they are saving the world and humanity. All of these feelings feed into the ego to return positive vibes. Try to separate a Liberal from an opportunity to peacock about his higher state of enlightenment when presented with the opportunity to denounce witches and heretics (racists and homophobes). There is a hunger in their soul to peacock in that fashion, the endorphin rush of feeling superior is like what God believers get when they believe that God has touched their soul.

Not one appeal to gods. All that's needed is an appeal to some mystical ideal. Diversity Is Our Strength or Recycle and Reuse. These substitute for the Lord's Prayer or the Takbir.

 

[TheOldSchool]

See how Rikurzhen completely flamed your post?

You deserved it. If you don't know why you should put some effort into understanding it.

I didn't flame his post at all, I directly answered it. Let's go through it step by step.

Deltas asked "Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist?"

Liberalism is valid to believers, so is environmentalism. They believe with all their heart. Evidence is not necessary nor welcome. Both are useful in that they fill the people with meaning, otherwise they'd be empty shells. Liberals and environmentalists both feel as though their belief has elevated them to a higher state of grace. Liberals feel as though they're intelligent and correct about matters. Environmentalists feel as though they are saving the world and humanity. All of these feelings feed into the ego to return positive vibes. Try to separate a Liberal from an opportunity to peacock about his higher state of enlightenment when presented with the opportunity to denounce witches and heretics (racists and homophobes). There is a hunger in their soul to peacock in that fashion, the endorphin rush of feeling superior is like what God believers get when they believe that God has touched their soul.

Not one appeal to gods. All that's needed is an appeal to some mystical ideal. Diversity Is Our Strength or Recycle and Reuse. These substitute for the Lord's Prayer or the Takbir.

Oh sorry well if you weren't flaming then you're just an idiot. Sorry bro.

 

[Rikurzhen]

See how Rikurzhen completely flamed your post?

You deserved it. If you don't know why you should put some effort into understanding it.

I didn't flame his post at all, I directly answered it. Let's go through it step by step.

Deltas asked "Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist?"

Liberalism is valid to believers, so is environmentalism. They believe with all their heart. Evidence is not necessary nor welcome. Both are useful in that they fill the people with meaning, otherwise they'd be empty shells. Liberals and environmentalists both feel as though their belief has elevated them to a higher state of grace. Liberals feel as though they're intelligent and correct about matters. Environmentalists feel as though they are saving the world and humanity. All of these feelings feed into the ego to return positive vibes. Try to separate a Liberal from an opportunity to peacock about his higher state of enlightenment when presented with the opportunity to denounce witches and heretics (racists and homophobes). There is a hunger in their soul to peacock in that fashion, the endorphin rush of feeling superior is like what God believers get when they believe that God has touched their soul.

Not one appeal to gods. All that's needed is an appeal to some mystical ideal. Diversity Is Our Strength or Recycle and Reuse. These substitute for the Lord's Prayer or the Takbir.

Oh sorry well if you weren't flaming then you're just an idiot. Sorry bro.

Hey, don't be calling truth-tellers idiots. Own up to your own religious feelings. Look, there are plenty of articles of faith in liberalism that are contradicted by reality and evidence and no true believer gives a damn. That's how religion rolls.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

Gods don't exist in my humble opinion, so I do believe it's possible.

The Evolutionary success story that put Monkeys on a road to technology and the stars is the ability and willingness to organize in groups larger than family around common goals. We have "Religion" to thank for that.

Religion is a necessary step in the Evolution of Sentience.

Evolution is messy, but it works.

 

[G.T.]

"Valid" and "useful" are not synonyms.

Can they be valid without their God being true? No.
Can they be useful? Yes.

They way you framed the question made it a non-starter, and forced me to break it down into parts.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

Liberalism functions like a religion and has no gods. Environmentalism the same. Michael Crichton:

I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can't be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people---the best people, the most enlightened people---do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.

Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.

There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe. . . . .

And so it is, sadly, with environmentalism. Increasingly it seems facts aren't necessary, because the tenets of environmentalism are all about belief. It's about whether you are going to be a sinner, or saved. Whether you are going to be one of the people on the side of salvation, or on the side of doom. Whether you are going to be one of us, or one of them.​

EVERY endeavor that involves Monkeys getting organized around a common goal functions like a religion.

Does this mean Corporations that are organized around the common goal of creating wealth are religions?

The God of Mammon?​

 

[G.T.]

​

EVERY endeavor that involves Monkeys getting organized around a common goal functions like a religion.

Does this mean Corporations that are organized around the common goal of creating wealth are religions?

The God of mammon?​

He just HAD to inject politics somewhere to get his knee to stop jerking.

 

[AVG-JOE]

"Valid" and "useful" are not synonyms.

Can they be valid without their God being true? No.
Can they be useful? Yes.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Liberalism functions like a religion and has no gods. Environmentalism the same. Michael Crichton:

EVERY endeavor that involves Monkeys getting organized around a common goal functions like a religion.

Does this mean Corporations that are organized around the common goal of creating wealth are religions?

The God of mammon?​

He just HAD to inject politics somewhere to get his knee to stop jerking.

Corporate organization is simply a common example, not the only one.


Besides, I would say that the guy who considers Liberals to be a Godless religion should be the one to get your political poo-poo.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

No of course not.

The religions of pagans were valid and no less anthropologically important then modern one god religions.

 

[G.T.]

Liberalism functions like a religion and has no gods. Environmentalism the same. Michael Crichton:

EVERY endeavor that involves Monkeys getting organized around a common goal functions like a religion.

Does this mean Corporations that are organized around the common goal of creating wealth are religions?

The God of mammon?​

He just HAD to inject politics somewhere to get his knee to stop jerking.

Corporate organization is simply a common example, not the only one.


Besides, I would say that the guy who considers Liberals to be a Godless religion should be the one to get your political poo-poo.

That was directed to him.

I was talking to you, so when I said "he" I wasn't also REFERRING to you, but who you quoted Joseph. C'mon man, I know it's early!

 

[G.T.]

Can a religion be valid and useful or positive regardless of whether or not the god or gods the religions claims to be about actually exist? Scientology et al. or other cults.

No of course not.

The religions of pagans were valid and no less anthropologically important then modern one god religions.

Valid, or useful?